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Eric1999
10-08-2014, 01:56 PM
Hello guys,

I'm going to buy my first table tennis blade and I need a bit of help. I'm an agressive player but I really like powerful topspin or effects in
the serve. What do you recommend for me??
I was thinking to buy Madera Andro Super Core Cell Off+ with DONIC Bluefire M1 Turbo in the forehand and DONIC Bluefire JP 01 Turbo in
the backhand, but I'm not completely sure and I don't want to do a bad buy.

Please give me your opinion. Is this blade too quick?? Will it give me spin, effect and powerful attacks?? I need your help please.

sebas-aguirre
10-08-2014, 02:11 PM
blade:
butterfly alc (viscaria, timo boll spirit, zhang jike alc, etc)

rubbers:
butterfly tenergy 05 both sides, 2.1 thickness

you will never have to think about equipment ever again.
also if your level is not very high and you need more control you can easily use the same rubbers for several years.
as rubbers get old they definitely become more controllable.

ZJK-Fan
10-08-2014, 02:13 PM
That depends on how long you are playing, if you only attack, and what you're playing actually

raazzz
10-08-2014, 02:14 PM
Do you have any teammates that are willing to let you try there rackets? It's always hard to get it right the first time without having something to go on. I think off+ sounds a bit fast and it can be hard to keep the control especially when it's your first blade. Don't forget that the power and spin comes from good technique and not from a fast blade.

raazzz
10-08-2014, 02:23 PM
It's not good to start out with a to fast racket. I would recommend you to start with an all round blade, much better for your technique because you are forced to make the spin and speed yourself. My first blade was Stiga allround classic and I think it was a great blade to start out with :)

Eric1999
10-08-2014, 02:43 PM
I have been playing for a year. I think my technique is not bad and I want to buy a new blade to start playing tourneys seriously. What do you think of the
combination I told you in the other post?? I looked for tenergy 05 in the online european shop and they say they don't have anyone, for that reason I said Bluefire M1, it's used by Ovtcharov and my play style is like his one, I have a better backhand but well, my technique isn't as good as him.

mahomedy13
10-08-2014, 02:48 PM
I recommend an allround blade and cntrl rubbbers as a first custtm racket.

Blade:stiga allround classic/evolution,yasaka allrund etc

Rubbers:yasaka mark v,butterfly sriver etc.

rajd1234
10-08-2014, 03:09 PM
i agree with mahomedy13... my first setup was Stiga Offensive Classic WRB + Yasaka Mark V [FH] + Donic Coppa Jo Gold [BH].
This setup gave me the control and feeling i needed at the time of developing strokes.

I owe a lot to the person who recommended me this setup at that time.

Amayzde
10-08-2014, 04:16 PM
I Also agree with mohamedy13, The setup you mentioned is extremely fast, I think it woud be too fast for me and Im playing already for 7 years and have good technique.

I would say go with an Allround(or an inbetween Allround and Offensive) blade, Somthing like Andro Super Core Cell OFF-. And get Andro Impuls Powersponge 2.0 on both sides. It has a soft sponge but it has a bg catapult effect. Its also very spinny on slow loops and it has very good speed for a soft rubber. The blade I mentioned has the speed of an Offensive blade with attacking and has the controll of an Allround blade when blocking.

And this setup is not as fast and furious as the setup you mentioned. Try this setup first to develop your game and technique first before going to faster rubbers. Trust me I know what Im talking about. I am using this rubber now on my backhand because my coach recomended it to me because my backhand technique wasnt good enough yet for the rubbers I was using on the backhand (bluefire, rasant). But now with this rubber I dont think I will change to another rubber for the next year. Its really good controll when blocking and because of the rubber beeing soft and not too sensitive to incoming spin opening up against backspin is almost effortless. And thats exactly what I like on the backhand side.

so this setup will be around;
Andro Super Core Cell OFF- €40,-
Andro Impuls Powersponge Red 2.0 €40,-
Andro Impuls Powersponge Black 2.0 €40,-

total; €120,-

rocketscientist
10-08-2014, 04:59 PM
I Also agree with mohamedy13, The setup you mentioned is extremely fast, I think it woud be too fast for me and Im playing already for 7 years and have good technique.

I would say go with an Allround(or an inbetween Allround and Offensive) blade, Somthing like Andro Super Core Cell OFF-. And get Andro Impuls Powersponge 2.0 on both sides. It has a soft sponge but it has a bg catapult effect. Its also very spinny on slow loops and it has very good speed for a soft rubber. The blade I mentioned has the speed of an Offensive blade with attacking and has the controll of an Allround blade when blocking.

And this setup is not as fast and furious as the setup you mentioned. Try this setup first to develop your game and technique first before going to faster rubbers. Trust me I know what Im talking about. I am using this rubber now on my backhand because my coach recomended it to me because my backhand technique wasnt good enough yet for the rubbers I was using on the backhand (bluefire, rasant). But now with this rubber I dont think I will change to another rubber for the next year. Its really good controll when blocking and because of the rubber beeing soft and not too sensitive to incoming spin opening up against backspin is almost effortless. And thats exactly what I like on the backhand side.

so this setup will be around;
Andro Super Core Cell OFF- €40,-
Andro Impuls Powersponge Red 2.0 €40,-
Andro Impuls Powersponge Black 2.0 €40,-

total; €120,-

Do you work for Andro? :cool:

Amayzde
10-08-2014, 05:20 PM
Do you work for Andro? :cool:

Haha no, I just like their products the most after Butterfly, but since Butterfly is so expensive I prefer Andro. Before this I was using a Innerforce ZLF with Tenergy 05 and 05 FX but that was just a pain in the wallet.

rocketscientist
10-08-2014, 05:52 PM
Haha no, I just like their products the most after Butterfly, but since Butterfly is so expensive I prefer Andro. Before this I was using a Innerforce ZLF with Tenergy 05 and 05 FX but that was just a pain in the wallet.

I see! Yeah, I can totally agree with you on that Tenergy is way to expensive. In my experience, they don't last to long either. I used to play with tenergy for a while but I had to change like every 2-4 weeks. But they are good rubbers nevertheless.

I see that you play with Andro Rasant. Have you played it on the new poly ball? What is your experience? I have heard that Rasant is like the biggest flop rubber of 2014. But perhaps I have been miss informed?

rajd1234
10-08-2014, 06:03 PM
Hahahah...Rasant ...A big flop???

You are surely misinformed rocketscientist.

Many people look at it as T05 alternative.

rocketscientist
10-08-2014, 06:08 PM
Hahahah...Rasant ...A big flop???

You are surely misinformed rocketscientist.

Many people look at it as T05 alternative.

Yeah okay. I have not played with it myself so I don't know. Just what I have heard from people around on tournaments and stuff. Doesn't know any pros that plays with it also.

Just saw the video about rasant, that was laughable. Hopefully it can be a alternative to T05. Would like to have some quality rubbers for less money than Tenergy. I play with Hurricane and Airoc which I think is perfect for my style of play and worth the money.

sebas-aguirre
10-08-2014, 07:29 PM
rasant follows the same line of hexer (the previous series), nothing too new.
really just get a tenergy....
if you find it too fast or spinny just give it some months, it loses performance with time.

Eric1999
10-08-2014, 07:35 PM
My friend is playing Andro Super Core Cell Off+ + Hurricane II and Airoc S and he's been only playing 2 weeks lol. Is it a fast rubber right??

Amayzde
10-09-2014, 04:19 AM
I see! Yeah, I can totally agree with you on that Tenergy is way to expensive. In my experience, they don't last to long either. I used to play with tenergy for a while but I had to change like every 2-4 weeks. But they are good rubbers nevertheless.

I see that you play with Andro Rasant. Have you played it on the new poly ball? What is your experience? I have heard that Rasant is like the biggest flop rubber of 2014. But perhaps I have been miss informed?

Well I havent used it on the new poly ball but I can tell you this isnt a flop rubber. You can also look at reviews from tabletennisdb. The rubber is rated with an overall of 9.6 with almost 100 reviews.

But when we have to play with the new poly ball Ill probably switch to Rasant Grip.

orient
10-09-2014, 05:19 AM
I recommend Stiga Infinity vps v blade.. You'll be surprised by its superb feels. As aggressive as you are.

orient
10-09-2014, 05:32 AM
Try Andro Rasant Powergrip on any poly ball (I've tried it on Xushaofa40+, Stiga Optimum 40+, Nittaku SHA 40+, Double fish 40+), I can assure you that Andro Rasant Powergrip or Rasant Grip is really amazing on any poly balls!.. Spin powerhouse? Absolutely from my point of view.

Btw, there are some stores in Asia that could offer the best price for Andro Rasant Grip and Powergrip (price ranges US$38-US$41)

orient
10-09-2014, 05:34 AM
I see! Yeah, I can totally agree with you on that Tenergy is way to expensive. In my experience, they don't last to long either. I used to play with tenergy for a while but I had to change like every 2-4 weeks. But they are good rubbers nevertheless.

I see that you play with Andro Rasant. Have you played it on the new poly ball? What is your experience? I have heard that Rasant is like the biggest flop rubber of 2014. But perhaps I have been miss informed?

Try Andro Rasant Powergrip on any poly ball (I've tried it on Xushaofa40+, Stiga Optimum 40+, Nittaku SHA 40+, Double fish 40+), I can assure you that Andro Rasant Powergrip or Rasant Grip is really amazing on any poly balls!.. Spin powerhouse? Absolutely from my point of view.

Btw, there are some stores in Asia that could offer the best price for Andro Rasant Grip and Powergrip (price ranges US$38-US$41)

Amayzde
10-09-2014, 08:10 AM
My friend is playing Andro Super Core Cell Off+ + Hurricane II and Airoc S and he's been only playing 2 weeks lol. Is it a fast rubber right??

Yeh thats fast but thats just not a smart thing to do. He will have a hard time learning the technique right. You have to make sure your technique is good before you go with these fast rubbers. Also when learning the technique its better to get softer rubbers.

Like in my club players will start with some premade Joola bat to just learn the basics and learn how to keep the ball on the table.

When their out of the beginning group they get their first custom bat. Just a cheap allround blade with Donic Twingo rubbers on both sides.

Once the rubbers are worn out they will get Mark V on both sides and if they have a good forehand technique already they will get Sriver FX on theirforehand.

Once these are worn out they look at how good the player is. So if he/she has good technique on forehand and backhand they will get Andro Impuls Speed on both sides as their first tensor rubber. This rubber is very soft but and has a big catapult effect but is easy to control.

So once they are done with that they will get Andro Impuls Powersponge on both sides.

And when they are done with that they get to test and chose the rubber they like the most. So most people chose for Hexer, Hexer HD, Rasant or Bluefire M2/JP 02 on their forehand and stick with Impulse Powersponge on the backhand.

This is how players develop in our club.

Tony's Table Tennis
10-09-2014, 10:55 AM
Yeah okay. I have not played with it myself so I don't know. Just what I have heard from people around on tournaments and stuff. Doesn't know any pros that plays with it also.

Just saw the video about rasant, that was laughable. Hopefully it can be a alternative to T05. Would like to have some quality rubbers for less money than Tenergy. I play with Hurricane and Airoc which I think is perfect for my style of play and worth the money.

HWATT in Melbourne, Australia is sponsored by Andro and all the top sponsored players there uses Rasant.
Yes, you are very mis-imformed

Tony's Table Tennis
10-09-2014, 11:00 AM
Hello guys,

I'm going to buy my first table tennis blade and I need a bit of help. I'm an agressive player but I really like powerful topspin or effects in
the serve. What do you recommend for me??
I was thinking to buy Madera Andro Super Core Cell Off+ with DONIC Bluefire M1 Turbo in the forehand and DONIC Bluefire JP 01 Turbo in
the backhand, but I'm not completely sure and I don't want to do a bad buy.

Please give me your opinion. Is this blade too quick?? Will it give me spin, effect and powerful attacks?? I need your help please.

As many people have already pointed out, I see this is common with new players.
They think buying the fastest equipment will give you spin, effect and powerful attack.

Sadly, this is not a racing car game - the fastest engine wins you the race.

Slow down to a control setup and learn what is spin, effect and powerful attack.
Once you are able to tame that setup and do all wonders with it (normally 1/3 to 1/5 of the cost of the crazy fast setup), then you can start moving 1 level or 2 up.

PS - not even the top pros in the world use crazy fast setup as what you had in mind.
These "fast" is just marketing and comes with a high price tag. Don't fall for the bait, especially your skills (assuming you are a new player) is not any way close yet.

My recommendation
Blade - any wood only, 5ply blade, maybe 7ply - at most. So basically ALL to OFF wood blade
Rubber - you can go for more controled ESN type rubber. I like the Xiom Vega series based on performance vs price. Some would say this is still too fast for beginners. Then go for Chinese brand - Euro style rubbers like Yinhe Moon/Moon Speed, which is very cheap, and you can upgrade to Tensor/ESN rubber after 6 months of play.

Maybe after 1 to 2 years of play (with coaching), you can go for your OFF+ blade plus those Turbo rubbers

Tony's Table Tennis
10-09-2014, 11:05 AM
Yeh thats fast but thats just not a smart thing to do. He will have a hard time learning the technique right. You have to make sure your technique is good before you go with these fast rubbers. Also when learning the technique its better to get softer rubbers.

Like in my club players will start with some premade Joola bat to just learn the basics and learn how to keep the ball on the table.

When their out of the beginning group they get their first custom bat. Just a cheap allround blade with Donic Twingo rubbers on both sides.

Once the rubbers are worn out they will get Mark V on both sides and if they have a good forehand technique already they will get Sriver FX on theirforehand.

Once these are worn out they look at how good the player is. So if he/she has good technique on forehand and backhand they will get Andro Impuls Speed on both sides as their first tensor rubber. This rubber is very soft but and has a big catapult effect but is easy to control.

So once they are done with that they will get Andro Impuls Powersponge on both sides.

And when they are done with that they get to test and chose the rubber they like the most. So most people chose for Hexer, Hexer HD, Rasant or Bluefire M2/JP 02 on their forehand and stick with Impulse Powersponge on the backhand.

This is how players develop in our club.

One of my students - before being my actual student ask me my opnion for his "first setup".
He wanted to buy a BTY JM blade with 2 x Tenergy 05 2.1mm.
His playing age is 3 to 6 months with no coaching.

I told him, don't waste your money on a $300+ setup.
Go for a $80 setup and learn technique first.

A year later, he joined my academy, and onto his 3 setup already.
Basically he went from OFF++++++ to OFF++++ to OFF++ and when he came to me, I told him to go even slower.
His technique improved and now he is able to use something faster.

All I can say is, some people must trust the coaches opnion. Especially an ethical one (as i'm not looking to sell the fastest - aka most expensive setup to my students and then they require 5 times the amount of time to learn TT -aka more coaching income lol, on top of the high invoice value setup)

Der_Echte
10-09-2014, 12:30 PM
A player new to the game (Agree with Tony) is wasting hiz money throwing it at the big name, big ad, high priced stuff.

Get a reasonable priced blade and rubbers SUITABLE for the desired playing style and call it a day.

A new player simply isn't going to learn the game by himself to an advanced level any time soon. An expensive as all letout bat or a cheeper one will (if the player is not getting coaching) still get a player to the same place. Lack of coaching and on the spot correction will not correct poor or ineffective technique and tactics. A faster bat (or even a SLOWER one) will not fix a player's inability to read spin, anticipate, have a good stance, bend the knees, use effective movement, use good balance and recovery, knowing when and how to strike the ball... You see where I am going with this?

The pundits recommend a slowish 5 ply wood blade with thin sponged control rubbers to learn the game. These pundits say that the reasoning is that it is tried and true, it forces the player to "hit through" the ball to create pace instead of being lazy and use the bat's overall fast rating to more lazily create pace.

On a level, the pace creating and striking the ball thing is right, but a player on their own without effective coaching will not learn the things I described above very quickly, if EVER, without a coach or someone who knows what they are doing next to them showing them what they did wrong and how to fix it. That is coaching anyway.

The problem with the OFF+ bats is that is mighty difficult to get the timing and feel right for learning how to topspin the ball without crush smashing through the ball. Many situations, one needs to control topspin or heavy slow/medium topspin the ball to create the chance to go ballistic on the next ball. An OFF+ blade with the fastest low throw rubbers does not exactly facilitate that. That is where I agree with and also depart from pundits' thinking.

Pundits say you need a slow setup and coaching. Of course that will work to get a player to a higher level, it has worked for eons, but it is NOT the only effective way.

Even with a ridiculous fast OFF++ bat, a player can learn the game and move up in level. Korean coaches allow or have their new players buy some of the fastest and most expensive stuff on the planet. Why? The Koreans believe in hitting through the ball and will have their players do brutal (Tony will tell you) multiball drills, and later single ball drills. The coaches will have many new players do endless shadow stroke practice in front of mirrors (ALL Korean clubs have HUGE mirrors) and the coaches are huge into correcting the flaws. They start out with the FH drive and the new players stay with that stroke forever before learning different topspins (if they ever pass coach's tough standards first) (like 500 FH drives high speed close to table) This system also works.

That is why I depart from pundits, because I know there is more than one way to skin a cat, yet I agree with much pundit thinking in that certain things are pretty much set and have to be reckoned with to play TT successful... like stance, balance, footwork, timing, how to use the body. You got to get these things down effective in order to play at a decent level.

An OFF+ bat or a DEF speed bat without coaching will get you pretty much to the same place... no very far, unless you got all your life or you are one in a million.

A blade in the All+ to OFF- or low OFF range with a control rubber for a player aspiring to be a flexible offensive player gives him or her the equipment suitable to learn and excel at that playing style. Combined with coaching, it will work.

Whether it is a $200 USD name brand job or one of my "Der_Echte Special" or a "Monster Modified 896" or an Allround Evolution or WHATEVER... Anything in the range of ALL+ to Low end OFF with modern (or old school) control rubbers is a sweet spot to learn the sport.

Der_Echte
10-09-2014, 12:38 PM
As for the Andro Rasant, on the right blade, it is a fast powerful rubber with spin. It felt average to me on a BTY composite blade, but on the 896 ALL+ it was a counter-topspin monster beast.

I believe that Aussie club has its pro tell their players to play with an ALL+ blade & Rasant. Not a bad setup at all for an OFF game.

ZED
10-09-2014, 12:47 PM
Guys please

729 original rubbers
Galaxy 896

Eacheng 4ever


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

raazzz
10-09-2014, 06:25 PM
I see! Yeah, I can totally agree with you on that Tenergy is way to expensive. In my experience, they don't last to long either. I used to play with tenergy for a while but I had to change like every 2-4 weeks. But they are good rubbers nevertheless.

I see that you play with Andro Rasant. Have you played it on the new poly ball? What is your experience? I have heard that Rasant is like the biggest flop rubber of 2014. But perhaps I have been miss informed?

The biggest flop rubber of 2014 I think is to exaggerate, I however must say I got a bit disappointed when i tried it with the poly ball, didn't get the touch i wanted and I felt a lack of spin. It was my teammates racket and he agreed with me. Nice to see that some are satisfied with Rasant, I am unfortunately not one of them.

sebas-aguirre
10-09-2014, 09:00 PM
just beware, because a blade says off+ it doesn't mean anything.
I have an "andro csv off+" and it's not that fast.
actually it's slower than butterfly alc blades which butterfly says are off.
I'm sure super core off+ follows the same pattern because of number of plies (5) and weight (less than 85g).

tenergy, bluefire, rasant, evolution
are all competitors aiming to the same type of market/player so really it's up to you, you can have similar game with any of these.

Dmitriy Raspopin
10-13-2015, 10:40 AM
May be Donic Baracuda

Dmitriy Raspopin
10-13-2015, 10:41 AM
Or Baracuda Big Slam

ivelin888
10-13-2015, 03:02 PM
I think Super Core Cell is not the best of the Andro's blades. I think the Kinetic series are a lot of better. I suggest you to get Kinetic Record Off- (its a perfect blade for me). I play from year and three months so I'm like you :)

NextLevel
10-13-2015, 03:13 PM
May be Donic Baracuda

You dug this post up from the grave.... why...

manosb
10-13-2015, 09:28 PM
I recommend Stiga clipper Cr as a blade because it is light and suitable for an all round attacker.One of the two trainers in our club used it when he was palying in national tournaments of greece and it is still fine so it seems it has good durability.As for the rubber donic bluefire m1 is a great choice as it has good spin and control.

UpSideDownCarl
10-13-2015, 10:48 PM
You dug this post up from the grave.... why...

NextLevel is right. You guys should not waste time posting here. This thread died a year ago and the original poster most likely got a racket about when the thread was done. Why give the guy blade and rubber recommendations when he undoubtedly is no longer needing them and may not even be reading info on the forum actively at this point.

This thread should remain dead. There was no need for waking the dead here.


Sent from Godric'sHollow using the ResurrectionStone

tabletennis11.com
10-13-2015, 10:58 PM
For your first blade try and maintain a good balance, something in the off- range or an off allwood blade. You could try a Stiga Rosewood NCT V or a Stiga Clipper and pair it with some faster rubbers.

The bluefire M1 turbo is quite firm, it can generate good speed but some players don't like the feeling too much, would suggest something like Donic Acuda S2 which is a touch softer and focuses more on speed through spin.