PDA

View Full Version : My FH Loop against heavy backspin



amekun
10-22-2014, 03:17 AM
My FH Rubber is juic 999 turbo
how is my technique and what can i do to further improve it?


http://youtu.be/YVoDEZ-Fob4

and is it normal to feel a painful jolt in your shoulder? if yes how long wil it last and what remedies can i do to heal it?

thanks :)

Der_Echte
10-22-2014, 05:36 AM
Dude, you are seriously locking up your entire body from hips to shoulders. You start the swing and seem to re-direct it with just the shoulder, that will cause a lot of wear/tear, along with a lack of power/consistency.

You are stating the swing, then swing off just the shoulder joint trying to generate bat speed. There simply are not enough muscles in front and back of shoulder to stop the body, then make the power and control fro a FH shot vs underspin.

The acceleration comes from getting low, being loose, and timing all the uncoiling of hips, shoulder, a little upper arm, the lower arm snap and some wrist snap. It should all be loose, relaxed, and it should all be a well timed whip kinda thing. You should be able to make what Coach Hodges calls "Easy" power.

I would suggest that you slow it down and get the timing right, then increase how fast/powerful you do it.

Rajah*
10-22-2014, 08:48 AM
I agree with william.. you are forcing your arm too much without the aid from your hips and legs in generating power.
1st when you're up against a chopper..most of the time the ball will travel slow?yes.
You will have that opportunity to move (lift your body not drag..that is why you are making that backhand topspins which is not suppose to happen. Exception: only in cases that you suddenly became out of position coz of ball travelling fast then it is okay.. ) anothe thing i noticed is that power generated stopped on the hips (too stif, rigid. No follow tru thats why you extend and forcing your arm to do the load.) Remeber there is a limit in the range of motion of arm so in order for you not to exploit that and injure yourself..you need the help from your
1. Hips explosive movement
2. Legs stability
3. Weight shifting..coordination from legs radiating tru hips and arm
You are making unnessesary mini steps inbetween spin-not okay
One step is enough every one good spin. That mini steps will keep you unstable..
Stability- always make it a point that before you release the ball you are on a square position meaning you in box close position with your opponent.
In every topspin i noticed that you are watching the ball too much instead of repositioning yourself back for the next attack.
It is okay that you challenge the chopper with pure topspin attacks..a raw display of power. But be wise as a player.. it is much easier lifting the ball if you do side topspins and change the rotation of the ball from time to time together with the direction.
Lastly in training yourself and pushing yourself to your limits.. do not smile and look at the camera..




"Train insane or stay the same"


Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

amekun
10-22-2014, 01:34 PM
Dude, you are seriously locking up your entire body from hips to shoulders. You start the swing and seem to re-direct it with just the shoulder, that will cause a lot of wear/tear, along with a lack of power/consistency.

You are stating the swing, then swing off just the shoulder joint trying to generate bat speed. There simply are not enough muscles in front and back of shoulder to stop the body, then make the power and control fro a FH shot vs underspin.

The acceleration comes from getting low, being loose, and timing all the uncoiling of hips, shoulder, a little upper arm, the lower arm snap and some wrist snap. It should all be loose, relaxed, and it should all be a well timed whip kinda thing. You should be able to make what Coach Hodges calls "Easy" power.

I would suggest that you slow it down and get the timing right, then increase how fast/powerful you do it.

i tried it out at the club earlier and found that by doing the hip rotation, it gave me more accuracy and the pain in my shoulder didnt comeback
i feel the tension in the lower back area but not in a bad way, it feels more comfortable

i am having a hard time though trying to combine it fluently like a whip

Thanks for the input i really appreciate it
im gonna upload another one after tomorrows training session and put it here :)

amekun
10-22-2014, 01:54 PM
I agree with william.. you are forcing your arm too much without the aid from your hips and legs in generating power.
1st when you're up against a chopper..most of the time the ball will travel slow?yes.
You will have that opportunity to move (lift your body not drag..that is why you are making that backhand topspins which is not suppose to happen. Exception: only in cases that you suddenly became out of position coz of ball travelling fast then it is okay.. ) anothe thing i noticed is that power generated stopped on the hips (too stif, rigid. No follow tru thats why you extend and forcing your arm to do the load.) Remeber there is a limit in the range of motion of arm so in order for you not to exploit that and injure yourself..you need the help from your
1. Hips explosive movement
2. Legs stability
3. Weight shifting..coordination from legs radiating tru hips and arm
You are making unnessesary mini steps inbetween spin-not okay
One step is enough every one good spin. That mini steps will keep you unstable..
Stability- always make it a point that before you release the ball you are on a square position meaning you in box close position with your opponent.
In every topspin i noticed that you are watching the ball too much instead of repositioning yourself back for the next attack.
It is okay that you challenge the chopper with pure topspin attacks..a raw display of power. But be wise as a player.. it is much easier lifting the ball if you do side topspins and change the rotation of the ball from time to time together with the direction.
Lastly in training yourself and pushing yourself to your limits.. do not smile and look at the camera..




"Train insane or stay the same"


Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

yes i agree with you 100%, idk why but i feel comfortable during the 1st and second ball and then i feel like im panicking and that y i feel so stiff
im still trying to develop the whole body rotation from the legs to the arm. and regarding the repositioning i admit that i stare at the ball too much cuz i always get suprised when the ball lands on the table the kick from my opponents topspin jumps the other way which is why im having a hard time in reading the trajectory. im trying to fix that as well. Im having fun during training thats why i smile heheheh lol

thanks for the input i really appreciate it
im gonna upload another one after tomorrows training session and put it here :)

ttmonster
10-22-2014, 05:04 PM
I would advise , get a coach to fix it.

Der_Echte
10-22-2014, 05:38 PM
It's a matter of using the right muscles at the right time accelerating them in the right order and timing. It is easy to say and can take a while to get right, especially if one has already been hitting a different way. Knowing what the order is an entirely different matter than actually doing it and it is easy for us who watch a vid and criticize and correct this or that.

A lot of newer players who want to apply extra power often use a lot of their upper body and upper arm (the shoulder area) and in the act of trying for too much power, get too tight and fight against an effective order of timing and use of the muscles. An effective way to get more power it too RELAX more and be more LOOSE, which will help you get a little lower, rotate the trunk a little more and let that torque made by the leg and hip opening explosion flow up the abs and lower back, and turn that into shoulder rotation and staying loose, allow that power to flow into the upper arm and snap the lower arm at the elbow and snap the wrist at impact.

Don't get too bent up by everything and be as patient as you can, it is not something we instantly fix and get right. If you do not have a coach or a better player correcting you on the spot constantly, it is much more difficult, but not impossible to fix. Even with a coach and multiball, single ball, hardcore combination drills, practice match point situations and whatever a coach can help you with... even with all this a player doesn't suddenly fix their form and timing in one day. It takes a LOT of coach telling the player right there and then what they did and what they need to do. Korean coaches in the early stages often go to the player and move the body part for them to give them a feel for what the motion and timing are. You can still do it on your own, but it takes a lot more learning and attention to what you are doing to fix it.

Korean coaches have their players stand for what seems to be 30 minutes or more at a time in front of a mirror while they wait for lessons going over the very basic FH drive motions. Old school coaches are more hardcore about that. It is a good way to get instant feedback and see what you are doing in reflection of that mirror.

Again, until you get this effective way to produce bat speed and power/spin from your lower body on up, SLOW everything down and stay LOOSE. Don't go for the kill or 10,000 rpm spin just yet. Ease it back a bit to where you can control your movements, yet you still gotta be a bit explosive, just tune it down some to a manageable level. You will soon "feel" what is effective if you correct it. You will know a shot had power and you were using much less effort, it is a sign of being more effective on your movements and timing.

Der_Echte
10-22-2014, 05:41 PM
Coach Hodges makes a couple of GREAT blog posts about this in his blog. Go to the "Tip of the Week" section (linked below) and look for Sep 22 "Power in Table Tennis" and Sep 8 "Easy Power" blog posts and you will see an excellent explanation done in a much more professional manner than I can explain.

http://www.tabletenniscoaching.com/TipOfTheWeek

DDF2
10-22-2014, 06:08 PM
I used to play the same and still do sometimes, but with time learned to have a more "open" stroke. What made me do this kind of stroke was my inability to hit the ball if it was too far from my body which led to me standing closer to the ball and preventing me to use rotation from the body/legs.

It took some practice, but now my stroke is ok and doesn't strain my shoulder a lot. Only my ankles and hip/back can get a little sore if I force too much on my strokes.

Tinykin
10-22-2014, 11:49 PM
Gosh, that hall is well lit.

ttmonster
10-23-2014, 01:38 AM
You have learnt from watching videos, so your starting and ending positions are kind of correct but the movement in between is not. Also, remember you should focus on using as small stroke as you can , you can watch the japanese women like ishikawa to learn that technique. The chinese way is not as technical and is not for us amateurs to learn from. You also need to understand foot work , at times you are following through too much because of your extensive shoulder movement.
Here is how it should be working ....
Have you seen the prayer wheel the Buddhist monks use ? Its can be used as an analogy of how your waist and arm movements should be.
There are two components to generating power and spin in table tennis .
1. Your weight transfer which gives the vertical lift and is especially important if you are looping against back spin.
2. The waist rotation , which gives you the forward momentum.
You have to combine these two in appropriate proportion depending on the incoming spin. Your arms are like the extensions of the prayer wheel. They shoul follow the waist movement and not the other way round.
That is the order of muscle movement. Stop using your shoulder completely and even your wrist. Just use your forearm till you get the form right and then you can think of adding them back.
Here is a video of tibetan prayer wheel


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m-pOWL6Wyc

I guess this would help you more than table tennis videos to understand what I am trying to say.

But my original suggestion stands, get a coach to show you the basics. I hope this helped.

Pnachtwey
10-23-2014, 10:55 PM
Your elbow looks like it is fixed or locked. There is no swing or snap to it. It almost looks like you are pushing the paddle up instead of swinging it. You are compensating by using your shoulder. Its no wonder your shoulder hurts.

mehdi.serghini
01-18-2015, 08:37 PM
do some physical work , it will help you ;)

Simon Sangals
07-17-2015, 08:35 PM
most injuries in the shoulder area come because of less trained back muscle, the rhomboid muscle, the backside of the shoulder muscle and the latissimus. pull ups and rowing train these muscle, that will help your shoulder to stay healthy ;)

mcaibyz2
07-18-2015, 01:27 AM
You need to relax your body especially wrist and arm before you hit the ball. It is easy to get injured by the way you play too. Like others pointed out, you didn't use your hip and legs for the stroke. Try to use less power as start and correct the stroke.

bobpuls
07-18-2015, 03:14 AM
In first change your shoes to another one with more grip. You are sliding at the floor which is not good , you accuracy and timing are off.

amekun
07-22-2015, 02:00 PM
Thanks guys for the tips :) yup i followed the advice from all of those that replied. i am very happy with my loops now ^,^