Equipment Reviews on TT forums

says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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Hi everyone, I am creating this thread to toss out how I feel about Equipment Reviews on TT forums and shoot the first round of discussion on it.

TT Reviews of equipment by us Amature folk are a sacred thing. We all want to see a review by a peer amature player, since he or she is at the world we are (oversimplify - Amature realm). We all want to learn something from the review and if we had some interest in the product, maybe we want some information or observation that will cause us to want or not want to use that product. Sometimes, we just like the story or like someone's enthusiasm.

I have made comments about reviews in some review threads before, but i never made a comprehensive explaination of how I feel about reviews before in a more detailed and organized manner.

Most of the written reviews I have seen by TT forum members accross several TT forums have been basically (for rubbers) this rubber is such and such spinny (represented by a number). This rubber is such and such fast. (with a number) This rubber lasts such and such long (prolly the most objective and useful info if it was from a long term test). This rubber served such and such and looped such and such. That is pretty much what majority of players write about. Many players and especially makers of equipemnt are keen to establish a NUMBER, the silver bullet of concise information that helps players make a decision.

I believe such a number system to be over-general, misleading, and not very representative of what the rubber or pruduct does. There are SO MANY different situations, both offensive, defensive, and connecting shot situations where a rubber or blade will have a different performance. ONE number overall summarizing everything does not do the product true justice (maybe a company or a player would want it that way) and does not convey the performance across the spectrum of dynamic cases a rubber or product will go through in these examples of shot situations that are common to the player during matchplay. For example, a number of spin, conveys ZERO idea of the rubber's ability to handle a short receive back short or how it works on a soft defensive block or spin killing bunt.

I have before publically praised the approach TTD takes when it reviews a rubber or blade for a video review. The underlying concept Dan & Co seems to hold important is to use stroke situations common to most players' match play situations and identify how it performs under those dynamic conditions. Dan uses this guiding principle and I feel it has helped him to identify and isolate MANY such situations and caused him to "stay on track" to what most players of offensive playing style do in a match and how the product works (good or bad) in those situations. I really think that gives the maximum value to the widest ammount of (offensive and allround) players.

I think that should be the idea that guides all of us when we make a product review. That would cause us to actually think through what situations truly apply to our game and how the product performs in those. The information that will come out of a review focused on that is in my opinion MUCH more relevant and useful to a player.

The negative side(s) to that is the the level of the reviewer and the playing style and stroke dynamics of the reviewer may be different from the player reading the review. Reviews of offensive rubbbers rarely convey its ability to chop low and spinny from mid-distance. Dan saying this rubber is great on bananna flips with high percentage might cause a player to buy the rubber, and then the player doesn't make half his bananna flip and might think Dan ws eating California grown mushrooms when he made the review. Der_Echte saying such and such rubber has excellent spin AND pace on a fastloop vs an underspin ball might be different from someone who bought the rubber and couldn't generate that kind of pace and spin using it in that situation, because I might have a faster bat speed at impact. Such differences among players of style, ability, & stroke specific player performamce are always going to be there no matter what and cannot be helped.

While a "template" for a review seems to be a good idea, I think that a reviewer should think for himself or herself of what is applicable and apply it to their review and articulate clearly about it.

Maybe DER_ECHTE is one consuming large ammounts of California grown mushrooms. Forum members... You all tell me and TTD and each other what you think...
 
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1 more thing i would like to add.

A rubber/blade cannot be reviewed as a rubber/blade alone.

It has to be reviewed as a complete setup.

For example:i want to review a T05.i cannot review it without mentioning the blade i played with and the blade characteristics.because if the next person takes a T05 and slaps it on a different blade,and then tests it and finds completely different characteristics,it may cause confusion between people,which may end up in arguments.

The crux of the matter being:a rubber and blade complement each other in order to obtain best results.
 
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says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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That is a good point and a reasonable person would be consistent with teh rubbers they use for testing their blades. For me, that is Aurus and XP 2008, they are predictable and work well enough on most blades.

When testing a rubber, one should be using a predictable and well known blade to the tester.
 
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Just out of curiosity, how was the Nexy review (Actium blade) x 5 recently?
I think I only saw 3 of the 5 reviews.

I agree that the "level/skills" of the player is crucial for the accuracy of review - for at least players who have a decent amateur level.

I once heard some one says that a commerical DHS H3 has no spin..... I was like,,, well if that doesn't give you spin, then no other rubber in the world will.
Obviously, I could not see the player, otherwise, I would understand from a coaches angle of why that rubber is spinless.

I somehow think, the credit/level of the reviewer plays a greater role than oppose to the viewer.
The viewer can learn and improve, and take "Dan's banana flick" as a guide line. And if he is doing it and I can't, then I must understand why.

Now if we turn it around - DHS H3 has no spin.... clearly, there must be something wrong with the reviewer. Unless that is a "anti spin" H3.
(I was the first player to review Yineh Big Dipper in the world - imagine if I said it was a bad rubber-by incorrect review? - then all the "western" Yinhe dealers will not stock it)

There are some top reviewers who has great knowledge on equipment - more than me I must say, and the detailed understanding of the combination of blades (different woods and composites) and rubbers are so much more valueable, but some times too advance for most amateurs to understand.

One thing to note is that certain equipment are designed for certain style of play too. And if the reviewer is not good enough in those specific areas, then the advantage of the equipment can not be felt, thus also giving an incorrect review.

Since today's day and age - yes I agree the video review is the thing forward.
We can also see the level of the reviewer and know more of him/her.
And one can even make a proper business with it (via youtube)
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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Maybe the big-time outfits will want elite players (like Dan and Tom) to do reviews for them and there are a lot of obvious pros (few cons) to that. Biggest is they are gunna get a professional and skilled review. Second, is the big company uses the trust that forums hold in elite players and their opinions.

Nexy is a little different than other companies. They will give out gear to an average Joe forumer, since a lot of their market is the average player. There is a certain value that a fellow forumer can give to a product review from thier perspective that is different from that of elite players and maybe an average TT forumer can relate to that better. Still, the reviewers need to have a minimum ammount of ability to be comprehensive and clearly articulate what is important to them and how the product worked out or didn't.

I would say the abillity to articulate that is what is lacking in the average TT forumer and that is a risk Nexy Korea took when they offer blades up for review without exactly knowing who they choose. They got enough pockets to be a little off in their judgment at time, so it is OK, the TT forum world still benefits. Nexy Korea are not naive and it could have been part of their marketing play jsut to get their baldes in teh ahnds of average players and let it grow from there, in that case, a good review would be "gravy", an American expression for additional benefit. I do not see any large TT outfit doing that, (giving away their expensive products to average players and trusting them) so hats off to Nexy Korea for being brave enough to trust in the average TT player. Still Tony, you are right in what you think and you obviously have enough wisdom and experience to back up your judgment.

Nexy USA doesn't have those kind of deep pockets, so we gotta get it right the first time and be more focused and specific. You wont see us marketing in that manner so freely and large quantity, we don't have the marketing budget for that yet.

I really didn't create the thread to talk about Nexy Korea, or Nexy USA, but instead about reviews in general. I understand how threads drift or get hijacked, accidentially or purposely. (Hehe, you all know I have done that a time or two or three thousand) That's OK that will happen in a forum, Dan or any Admin are not the Totalitarian types.
 
says Table Tennis - the sport for life.
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I think some sort of proforma for am equipment review is a really good idea. Even if the reviewer does not want to use it, it gives them a list of things to think about. So often when we test new equipment and write a little review, we get questions on things we had not even considered, and we might have ripped it off our bat by then. :)
 
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I think some sort of proforma for am equipment review is a really good idea. Even if the reviewer does not want to use it, it gives them a list of things to think about. So often when we test new equipment and write a little review, we get questions on things we had not even considered, and we might have ripped it off our bat by then. :)

I agree.the template could include:

Weight of blade/rubber
Plies
Type(Off,All etc)
Handle type
Durability(if testing over a period of time)

Serve-
Spin on serve
Speed on serve

Serve receive-
Spin sensitivity
Flicking

Short game-
Control
Spin
Flicking and lifting underspin

Looping-
Spin +speed close to table
Spin +speed away from the table.
lifting backspin

Please feel free to add your opinion,which i can then use when reviewing my Actium.
 
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says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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I think some sort of proforma for am equipment review is a really good idea. Even if the reviewer does not want to use it, it gives them a list of things to think about. So often when we test new equipment and write a little review, we get questions on things we had not even considered, and we might have ripped it off our bat by then. :)

Hey Haggisv inn the house !!

Anyone on this forum who doesn't know Haggisv has stayed only on this forum like a scared turtle in his shell. haggisv has been ponging longer than some jokers have been alive, has been running a TT shop online for almost as long as the interentz, has reviewed more TT gear than you can shake a stick at, runs what I consider to be the best high-traffic TT forum around (but lookout - TTD is catching up ! ) and is an accomplished player. Haggisv was a key member of the most ludicrous and smartest TT forum EVER and was a multi-forum poster and admin years before many people could spell the word. (if such a word exists haha)

If anyone wants to discount Haggisv's opinions, do so at your own risk. How Haggisv gets only 4 likes from his 12 posts tells me he is unknown here, that will change when people "Get out of their Shell" some moar.

I used to think a template was a great idea, I still think it has a lot of use, but more consideration should go to dynamic testing of match situations. Benefits of a template are organization and a checklist to remind the reviewer to cover such and such criteria. That has a lot of good benefit. I could look back to my early forum days where I posted some wild stuff on Haggisv's forum about equipment reviews...

Hint: anyone feel free to go to OOAK forum and search for Schildkrot 900 review, there was a thread or two about htis top secret project and Haggisv has it on his review section too.
 
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In addition to what have been mentioned already I personal like when doing blade reviews that the one reviewing the blade gives the forum readers feedback on feel, stiffness, flex, consistency as well as dwell.

One thing is doing exercises, but it is another situation when playing matches. I like the feedback I get from equipment and in the end it is mental. If your equipment feels good then you also trust or rely on your setup.
 
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Oh Shyt, the NSA has let BeGo in on some international secrets... for years !!! To the Bat-Cave Robin !!!

BeGo, who did we know you as back then :) ??
The same BeGo as always, although mostly lurking in Denis forum back then. :)
 
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Der Echte,

Your original post rambles a bit and is confusing so I am unsure if I fully got it.

For me, I find most reviews, even that of tttdaily, to be fairly uninformative with the important exception of the moments when they compare the behavior of the rubber to a rubber that I have played with. Unfortunately, these things do not happen often enough given the attempts of certain brands to avoid promoting other brands.

I think that every reviewer should have a few benchmark rubbers of the type that he generally uses on a popular benchmark blade, wooden or composite. Then from that benchmark rubber, he can then draw comparisons to other rubbers on the same benchmark blade.

Without clear benchmarks, telling me what the rubber is or is not good for is largely ridiculous and entertaining. Moreover, not knowing what your technique has adjusted or optimized to doesn't help me understand what is happening with what you are now reviewing.
 
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Benchmark, something like this? :)

(I find the content strange either, but basically, there should be an Everybody knows combi for each style of play) :)
 
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