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Okay I lied. Tom Lodziak posted this video today so I couldn't resist. When you know what to look for, everything makes sense,
How Did I Win or Lose a Match?
- Thread starter LDM7
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Wow, that's a great video - I am super pleased you found that. Her stroke is just so neat and compact and really looks repeatable and effective.
Thanks.
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It's a clone of the Timo Boll stroke. Timo Boll just has faster and more pronounced wrist action and he probably uses the back muscles a bit more dangerously to so. She drives hers a bit more visibly with the legs.
I didn't watch the new vids. My thought is to work at reducing the upper arm involvement and freeing the elbow and wrist so they move at all. Just let them move freely for now. Once that loose swing feels natural and normal, then start to add the wrist and finger shaping that NL writes about. Don't try to jump straight from A to E without visiting B C and D along the way.
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Note, weight transfer is more upwards and stays more on her right foot.
Timo has 3 variations
1) diagonal forehand slower spinny topspin v backspin (this is the stroke demonstrated in Toms vid)
2) parallel forehand topspin against backspin with one leg forward.
3) parallel forehand topspin against backspin NEXT to the table with one leg forward.
These are used for slightly different gameplay situations
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Hi brs,
I am pretty consistently championing a progressive approach to things with many moving parts of high complexity. I agree with your assessment and approach. I believe you correctly put things in proper context.
Still, once he stops using upper arm and begins to get the nuances of the sequence of the chain, he is so totally gunna be spinning it up it will blow his mind.
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I reluctantly played local league yesterday. Why? The gym is difficult for me to compete with the glare, reflections from shiny floor, white wall background, provided match ball old and off color and shiny, poor acoustics, closeness of tables, people constantly walking through court or hanging out on court, balls from adjacent court coming at you or at your feet every other point, and frequent interruptions (you get 1-3 lets almost every point) are some of the reasons I choose not to compete (and pay money to do so) at that place.
I simply do not compete worth a crap in that gym. I can lose to a 1200 level player if they can manage to get the ball on the table and I am off 1 cm on attack. I compete in that gym only when I must, like the CDNF teams. I use a brand new ball each match to help me see the ball when I compete there. When I play league, I usually give up competing with the intent to win, but compete to practice winning points and games in crappy conditions (since some tourneys will also have crappy conditions)
Therefore, I usually only goof off at this place and go there since it is only 10 miles from where I live. It is a place where tables are setup for 3 hrs 1x a week and league happens 1st and 3rd Tues each month. I had forgotten to toss in my tennis huge bag (I normally goof off until league starts and go play tennis).
There is a single match worth discussing for this thread that covers a lot of things we all talk about on this thread - how you win or lose points, games, and matches.
There was an opponent who recently defeated Joey, a 2000+ plus in the 2022 CDNF teams. I played vs him (M). He is rated around 1700... has a tricky illegal serve, sometimes can loop, and has a sneaky BH punch block from an un-natural arm slot and angle, but consistent.
The way to win vs him is to handle his serve with heavy underspin, then loop his push on the next or one after. On serve, you vary short, half long, and deep with underspin sometimes dead and spin attack return. Sometimes you play brain dead vs him, which I did yesterday. I attacked to his BH way too much and lost so many points, like 90% of them - I lost game 4 that way real bad. in the 5th, I finally had enough and found a way to target his middle on spin or power attacks. At 4-4 in the 5th, I started to do that. Every attack went there and not so amazingly, I won every one of those points to finish 11-6.
Sometimes, a player is too determined to play a certain way and does not realize what is going on or is simply too stubborn to adapt and make an adjustment. I fell into that category big time yesterday and could have - should have lost if I stayed that way in game 5. Often, adjustments are really stupid simple things and they are the difference in points, games, and matches.
I simply do not compete worth a crap in that gym. I can lose to a 1200 level player if they can manage to get the ball on the table and I am off 1 cm on attack. I compete in that gym only when I must, like the CDNF teams. I use a brand new ball each match to help me see the ball when I compete there. When I play league, I usually give up competing with the intent to win, but compete to practice winning points and games in crappy conditions (since some tourneys will also have crappy conditions)
Therefore, I usually only goof off at this place and go there since it is only 10 miles from where I live. It is a place where tables are setup for 3 hrs 1x a week and league happens 1st and 3rd Tues each month. I had forgotten to toss in my tennis huge bag (I normally goof off until league starts and go play tennis).
There is a single match worth discussing for this thread that covers a lot of things we all talk about on this thread - how you win or lose points, games, and matches.
There was an opponent who recently defeated Joey, a 2000+ plus in the 2022 CDNF teams. I played vs him (M). He is rated around 1700... has a tricky illegal serve, sometimes can loop, and has a sneaky BH punch block from an un-natural arm slot and angle, but consistent.
The way to win vs him is to handle his serve with heavy underspin, then loop his push on the next or one after. On serve, you vary short, half long, and deep with underspin sometimes dead and spin attack return. Sometimes you play brain dead vs him, which I did yesterday. I attacked to his BH way too much and lost so many points, like 90% of them - I lost game 4 that way real bad. in the 5th, I finally had enough and found a way to target his middle on spin or power attacks. At 4-4 in the 5th, I started to do that. Every attack went there and not so amazingly, I won every one of those points to finish 11-6.
Sometimes, a player is too determined to play a certain way and does not realize what is going on or is simply too stubborn to adapt and make an adjustment. I fell into that category big time yesterday and could have - should have lost if I stayed that way in game 5. Often, adjustments are really stupid simple things and they are the difference in points, games, and matches.
One thing she doesn't talk about, and IMO it's quite important, is that you need to turn your hip as well. I was recording my FH shots and comparing to MA Long's (among other pros) and I couldn't figure out why my motion looked so awkward. Eventually I compared two still shots of me during my maximum backswing and ML's, and I figured out that I wasn't turning my hips enough.
I've always used a lot of leg and back/ab strength, but apparently Inever really fully used my glutes. Note how in the thumbnail her right knee is almost turned 90 degrees to the right. Try doing a looping motion doing that versus turning your right knee only 60 degrees outwards. You'll notice that you're stretching your glutes a lot more with a bigger turn.
People mainly think of the glutes as a hip extensor, but forget that it's also major hip rotators as well. With a wider turn you're stretching your glutes more, and you'll engage it fully when you snap your hip back during the forward swing.
I've always used a lot of leg and back/ab strength, but apparently Inever really fully used my glutes. Note how in the thumbnail her right knee is almost turned 90 degrees to the right. Try doing a looping motion doing that versus turning your right knee only 60 degrees outwards. You'll notice that you're stretching your glutes a lot more with a bigger turn.
People mainly think of the glutes as a hip extensor, but forget that it's also major hip rotators as well. With a wider turn you're stretching your glutes more, and you'll engage it fully when you snap your hip back during the forward swing.
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She definitely mentions it, she doesn't emphasize it, likely because her motion speaks for itself. Most people don't squat and lunge enough to practice high level technique but if they can it helps.
She actually only mentions it in the forward swing, but it's the backswing that's important. It wasn't until I stopped my frame-by-frame comparison with Ma Long at the maximal backswing point did I realize my error. Most coaches teach like she does, squat down, rotate your back, but the hip rotation is not emphasized.
That's an important thing to note, because many of us live a sedentary lifestyle, and we suffer from glute deactivation. Our bodies forget to use the glutes by default, and that often manifests as back pain in people. Squatting and rotating the back comes natural, but using the glutes isn't always so.
I've done my FH wrong for many years, and now it's literally a pain in the butt to fix it! My glutes are sore since I slowed down my FH exercises so I specifically use my glutes for each shot.
Still doesn't come natural during games though!
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Can you do a lunge without using your hips?She actually only mentions it in the forward swing, but it's the backswing that's important. It wasn't until I stopped my frame-by-frame comparison with Ma Long at the maximal backswing point did I realize my error. Most coaches teach like she does, squat down, rotate your back, but the hip rotation is not emphasized.
That's an important thing to note, because many of us live a sedentary lifestyle, and we suffer from glute deactivation. Our bodies forget to use the glutes by default, and that often manifests as back pain in people. Squatting and rotating the back comes natural, but using the glutes isn't always so.
I've done my FH wrong for many years, and now it's literally a pain in the butt to fix it! My glutes are sore since I slowed down my FH exercises so I specifically use my glutes for each shot.
You'd be surprised! There's actually a lot of science that goes behind this phenomenon. A lot of people actually don't activate glutes as much as they should with exercises that involve multiple muscles like lunges, glute bridges, and even deadlifts! Our body is quite good at working around weak glutes, without you ever realizing it. Many peripheral muscles are activated to compensate for weak glutes and overtime that'll become the new norm so that even when you're doing an exercise that would normally require your glutes to do some of the heavy-lifting, it's actually not pulling its fair share.
For example, for glute bridges, which is actually a beginner glute activation exercise used to counteract this phenomenon, you're taught to tighten up your quads to cause relaxation of your hamstrings in order to specifically target thr glutes. Or else your hamstrings will do the lion's share of the work. It's similar for lunges, a person with inactivated glutes will over-rely on the hamstrings to do all the work.
You should look up glute activation exercises, there's a wealth of information out there. I'm a doctor who only treats acute patients in the hospital, so I had little experience with chronic musculoskeletal pains. I was puzzled when I asked our physical therapists about my chronic back pain and they told me to do glute bridges. Looking into it revealed a lot of insight into this phenomenon, and now it's both helping my back pain and my TT 😊
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What I like about this is the compact efficiency of the stroke - a bit like the FH loop vid of yesterday
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What he means by not so much wrist is very different from what I mean by not so much wrist. In general though, his backhand is a bit overrated but not going to hate on him, he is a strong player and professional athletes are professional for a reason.
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I see several tactical advantages gained, several given up, several technical things good and bad, some adjustments made and not made... but will refrain from commenting until LDM7 and a few comment.
I was the one who left a comment on one of your 8 yr old vids that one of your opponents was serving so illegal it affected the outcome.
I was the one who left a comment on one of your 8 yr old vids that one of your opponents was serving so illegal it affected the outcome.
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