Dang Qiu

Looks really good in that Düsseldorf masters Series. At 23 yo he seems to have improved a lot, last Year he was one of the weaker bundesliga players but this series he has really dominated.

https://youtu.be/8sGf-gLrLDI
Obviously no Chinese players and also not all the top euro players either but he has beaten dima for example.

Now covid means some players are not in top form but his game seems to have gotten better, the German penhold player with Chinese parents had a good RPB but also now got more zip on the FH and a solid block game.

I doubt he will ever beat the top Chinese and probably won't reach timo' s level either but in the current weak Europe I could see him becoming European champion.

What do you think? Can he at least become a top euro player? Might already be the best non Chinese penhold player currently.

I agree that he seems to be getting stronger. I like his calm style. He’s got a solid RPB and a very precise forehand attack.

I think I prefer his game to Wong Chun Ting. I’m not sure if he could consistently beat any of the top Chinese, but it would be fun to watch him play Xu Xin, Xu Fei or Zhao Zihao!


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Power of love

https://i.imgur.com/RAlM12j.jpg
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https://i.imgur.com/DgE8GGl.jpg

She has always known he is the One, for her name is 先知/Hsien-tzu(prophet).

Dang Qiu, is one of the players that i enjoy watching all the games, especially because i also play penhold, i am very inspired by his rpb technique. indeed, over the years he has improved a lot, his FH is much more solid, and he is finishing the points in the games faster with his strength.</pre>

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Originally Posted by alas26

I agree that he seems to be getting stronger. I like his calm style. He’s got a solid RPB and a very precise forehand attack.

I think I prefer his game to Wong Chun Ting. I’m not sure if he could consistently beat any of the top Chinese, but it would be fun to watch him play Xu Xin, Xu Fei or Zhao Zihao!

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At this point, his game has definitely surpassed Wong Chung Ting's. Especially his touch and forehand.

Interesting that German players seem to mature a bit later on than most countries. I'm thinking of all the Japanese/Chinese 18 year olds who legitimately challenge for top 30 world ranking positions. Even the French players seem to be ahead of the Germans at the younger age categories.

Dang seems to have improved quite a Bit, recently beating Falck and kanak jha easily in the bundesliga. He only made second round in the worlds but went 7 sets again liang jingkun.

he is not super young of course at 25 so his upside is probably a bit limited but I think he could reach like 10-12 in the world at his peak level.

btw is he playing jpen or Cpen?

I read he plays jpen but isn't this here more like a Cpen?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWpTDpcs..._web_copy_link

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Dominikk85; 359116Dang parece ter melhorado um pouco, recentemente derrotando Falck e kanak jha facilmente na bundesliga. Ele só fez o segundo turno nos mundos, mas fez 7 sets novamente, liang jingkun.

ele não é super jovem, claro, aos 25, então sua vantagem é provavelmente um pouco limitada, mas eu acho que ele poderia atingir algo como 10-12 no mundo em seu nível máximo.

btw ele está jogando jpen ou Cpen?

Eu li que ele toca jpen, mas isso aqui não é mais parecido com um Cpen?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWpTDpcs..._web_copy_link

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he used jpen until 2016, after this year he is using cpen.

He’s certainly a very enjoyable player to watch. Not too bad at doubles either!

Interestingly, he also seems to have been one the first top penholders to adapt fully to the new, two winged, close to the table, hit-off-the-bounce drive style. Perhaps it’s a bit left over from his Jpen days, or not…Wong Chun Ting also has kind of but he’s very mercurial and peaked quite late in his career, so he probably won’t be around for very long.

He’s impressive and I hope he develops well.

Felix Lebrun is probably the most hopefully penholder for the future

Been a penholder for about 4 years. Now playing shakehand.

Penholders play like shakehand anyway. There’s little distinction between the two styles.

I think a disadvantage of modern penhold is passive backhand play, especially backhand block close to the body.

TPB is actually strong there but RBP block really isn't but you can't really switch quickly between RBP block and TPB block.

MA lin mostly played TPB especially on passive play and only occasionally RPB but the modern penholders only play with backhand side. That makes their rally backhand stronger but passive play is tougher.

Shakehand backhand is easier to adjust blade and and play active spin or passive block

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Originally Posted by aerial

Felix Lebrun is probably the most hopefully penholder for the future

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Yeah I think lebrun is the biggest problem talent for penhold out there.

I think dang and Felix are very important for the future of penhold game. If one of them developes Into a "semi threat" to the Chinese (say like Dima or Timo level who are not quite a threat but good enough to be taken seriously) the Chinese will continue to develope a few kids into penholders if anything just to have a sparring partner for the shakehand kids.

But if both dang and Felix fail to become at least like top10-15 level the Chinese might just as well stop teaching penhold at all like it already happened in Japan and Korea and then penhold game might die completely

The problem is, the edge penhold had over shakehand is diminishing. Felix and Qiu are playing like shakehanders.

Only Xu Xin is playing like a true penholders with the hallmarks of various short games, FH side flick and BH push techniques (in the past). Without these techniques unique to penhold play, penholders might all switch to shakehand.

Couldn't in theory a player do both and have the two winged topspin attack like dang and Felix and still enjoy advantages in short game and maybe serve game?

Nice win by dang over moregard.https://www.youtube.com/embed/NDU2UN...s=1&showinfo=0

it's interesting they almost play reversed roles, SH player moregard scores with good FH and blocks with BH and penholder dang scores a lot with BH to BH rallies:)?

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Originally Posted by Dominikk85

Couldn't in theory a player do both and have the two winged topspin attack like dang and Felix and still enjoy advantages in short game and maybe serve game?

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It’s not a theory. Wang Hao was exactly what you describe. I believe if prime Wang Hao was playing now, he’d still be at least in the top 10 (if not 5).

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Originally Posted by iammaru

It’s not a theory. Wang Hao was exactly what you describe. I believe if prime Wang Hao was playing now, he’d still be at least in the top 10 (if not 5).

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Yeah of course, if he was still playing he probably would have top 10 level but probably not in china as he wouldn't make CNT past ma long, FZD, XX and WCQ and LJK.

But if timo can be top10 at 40 wang hao peobably could be at 38.

I think a penholder still could be number 1, XX was number 1 just 2 years ago but it took him forever to get his RPB to a good enough level and by that time his body started to decline.

Maybe the guys like lebrun who start as kids with RPB and just that learn RPB quicker but on the other hand lebrun already has a world class RPB but he is lacking the FH strength and pivot footwork of traditional penholders.

Maybe if XX had a better RPB earlier he would have been lazier and had a worse pivot footwork because he would have played just backhand.

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Originally Posted by iammaru

It’s not a theory. Wang Hao was exactly what you describe. I believe if prime Wang Hao was playing now, he’d still be at least in the top 10 (if not 5).

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I think you're not being generous enough. Prime Wang Hao as he was No 1 back in his time, very well could be No 1 today too. In fact in his time the top 10 was even stronger than today. There are like 3-4 players in top 10 now I bet even at 38 he could beat if he was still active.
Look at Hao Shuai, he's butchering pretty much everyone in T league and the guy can barely walk anymore and is around 38 too...

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Originally Posted by Zwill

I think you're not being generous enough. Prime Wang Hao as he was No 1 back in his time, very well could be No 1 today too. In fact in his time the top 10 was even stronger than today. There are like 3-4 players in top 10 now I bet even at 38 he could beat if he was still active.
Look at Hao Shuai, he's butchering pretty much everyone in T league and the guy can barely walk anymore and is around 38 too...

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Yes i rate Wang Hao very high, one of my fav players, but since it’s only in theory, i want to keep it as realistic as possible. Well he could have trouble with FZD and ML (who has improved a lot since 2011-2013 when he lost important matches against WH). So top 5 is likely and top 10 is no doubt (for me).

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Originally Posted by Zwill

I think you're not being generous enough. Prime Wang Hao as he was No 1 back in his time, very well could be No 1 today too. In fact in his time the top 10 was even stronger than today. There are like 3-4 players in top 10 now I bet even at 38 he could beat if he was still active.
Look at Hao Shuai, he's butchering pretty much everyone in T league and the guy can barely walk anymore and is around 38 too...

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The decline in average skill level of top ten players is interesting. I think it might be because of the older generation declining, and the new generation not as ready to take over. From my POV, the society here in China has noticeably less enthusiasm for TT as in the 2000s and the early 2010s. Less classmates play, and the schools don’t push it as much.

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Originally Posted by PingBirdPong

The decline in average skill level of top ten players is interesting. I think it might be because of the older generation declining, and the new generation not as ready to take over. From my POV, the society here in China has noticeably less enthusiasm for TT as in the 2000s and the early 2010s. Less classmates play, and the schools don’t push it as much.

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Well I guess the same phenomena as everywhere else just a bit delayed? Kids enjoying their consoles too much, and there is no replay or ragequiting in sports. And it's sweaty and hot and cold, you're not drinking with your best buds, your mom nags you about dirty clothes etc...
But not just tabletennis, it's a common thing with all sports, but some sports are still more attractive since even if you suck you can earn good money. (like football)

Dang had a really good season in the bundesliga only having like two or three losses or so all year.

He also just beat dima in the final of the lima contender tournament after being down 0 2 in sets.
https://youtu.be/XnHqOdOxinw

Not sure if dima is at 100% again after his severe ankle injury last fall but an impressive win nonetheless, he is approaching top10 in the world.

That RPB punch block he uses is really impressive too, he improved a lot in that regard.

2 years ago I said he is the top talent and he was at the time in the ranking around 100th place. Dang Qiu 's style probably makes him more consistent and less prone to injuries and he gets top level treatment from Germany trainers. I had wars with my ex friend that he think Kulczycki will be better than Kay Stumper....no way.Kay Stumper if he won't get injuries he will be another one because.. Danny Heister is magician and if he gets someone to the club= super talent

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Originally Posted by Dominikk85

Dang had a really good season in the bundesliga only having like two or three losses or so all year.

He also just beat dima in the final of the lima contender tournament after being down 0 2 in sets.
https://youtu.be/XnHqOdOxinw

Not sure if dima is at 100% again after his severe ankle injury last fall but an impressive win nonetheless, he is approaching top10 in the world.

That RPB punch block he uses is really impressive too, he improved a lot in that regard.

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Indeed very interesting to see where Dang will go/become.
He will get a spot on Team Germany going forward for sure.
But is he Top 10 or Top 20 quality awaits to be seen.

With the adjustment of world ranking points allocation, which requires a lot of time to correct itself, he would benefit a lot while it is happening.
But the moment top 20s become back into top 20s, it will be a lot more crowded and seeding/bad seeding would come into play and that is what ITTF/WTT is trying to fix with this weekly world ranking (allow chances for others to become seeds)

The whole idea of WTT having 2 tournaments (of same status) in different countries in the same time to me is still weird.
Dang went to the easier Lima, if he had gone to Zagreg, he would not have gotten so much points.
Dang could just be one the lucky players with the new WTT and getting higher world ranking/better seeding, where maybe in yester years, he would not.
So there could still be a plus to how the way things are done - giving players like Dang a chance to shine.

Having said that, world ranking is becoming even further away from a true ranking. It has become even more of a math quiz.

Getting a spot on team germany is still not easy for him because Franziska is at a similar level. It depends on how long Timos body holds up, he recently had a lot of injuries.

Franziska and dang could be a tough battle for a spot in the team at world and european championships, currently dang is ranked 10th and franziska 13th, in their most recent match in the bundesliga final Franz narrowly beat dang 3 to 2 in sets.

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Originally Posted by Dominikk85

Getting a spot on team germany is still not easy for him because Franziska is at a similar level. It depends on how long Timos body holds up, he recently had a lot of injuries.

Franziska and dang could be a tough battle for a spot in the team at world and european championships, currently dang is ranked 10th and franziska 13th, in their most recent match in the bundesliga final Franz narrowly beat dang 3 to 2 in sets.

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Is it spot of 3 or 5?
I was thinking of 5.
Dima and Boll is guaranteed. Boll will play till he is 60.

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Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

Is it spot of 3 or 5?
I was thinking of 5.
Dima and Boll is guaranteed. Boll will play till he is 60.

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Are there 5 spots at team worlds and euros? Do all 5 actively play or are they alternates in case of injury?

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Originally Posted by Dominikk85

Are there 5 spots at team worlds and euros? Do all 5 actively play or are they alternates in case of injury?

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5 players for teams event (min of 3, some poorer/less funded nations, might only send 3 or 4 players)

How they play, who plays etc, depends on the coach/team.
Some will use rotation, so everyone plays, some would purely be bench warmers.
I guess players form (and injury) plays a role with who plays more or not