Help choosing a custom racket

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Hi all,

This is my first time posting here, and i started to think about table tennis after so long time of stopping, but i really don't know or can't remember at all which racket i had before, so it sounds like i should ask as getting very first time or new one.

My style of playing is very difficult, say very moody, sometimes i become offensive, another time defensive, but i think i am mostly going with offensive style more.

I like to use backhand much more than forehand, but i will not ignore forehand at all, but i also do spin a lot when needed, and most games i played i won mostly because of spin as main then backhand, forehand coming last as reason for me to win, but that depend on the opponent style too, and i try to play with low-med opponents than high level ones.

So, if i want to choose a custom racket, then which blade i should go with and which rubbers? i may go with cheap all around, but i feel i may think to upgrade it quick after a while so i don't want to pay again for upgrade, i planned to sacrifice control, i played just a test train with a coach and he told me that i should start with a control racket first, but honest speaking i was shaking and embarrassed and so steady in my position, so it didn't show my real style, and i tested 2 different rackets and both were almost same performance to me when i tested even he said they are different [one is fast speedy, and they other is control less speed], so i can tell that i may learn or get used with any racket, so i prefer to go with fast speedy one with good spin even i may lose control, because i know one day i will advance and then i will need a racket that give me speed then it means i need to buy another one and who knows i may not able to, i will save to go with one i dream to reach its level racket than a beginning racket, i will play somewhere where i can use those all around racket free and then i can advance on time, also i feel i want to get used to speed racket within the time than getting used to a controlling less speed one.

Which blade?
Which Rubber for FH and BH?

If i get enough good budget than i may try to have 2 rackets of different style so each will compliment the other until i depend on one at the end.

I am open to all recommendations.
 
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I'd better recommend you to try other players' bats and see which you like the most. Buying something just according to others' reviews is risky. If you're planning to improve your tt by training with a coach i suggest you to listen to him. Some players have completely wrong technique, and they think the fastest and spinniest bat is the best one. Once they start playing the right strokes, they just keep firing the ball after the table or in the net. Remember that a good technique can always compensate the lack of speed of the racket.

Please also change the colour of the text to something lighter next time :)
 
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Oh, i am sorry about that text color, it is not my fault because it chose the default color and the background here is black or dark, it was my first post so i didn't know the default color of the text, i apologize.


Well, i asked the same on another site, and at the end it sounds i should go with any racket whether it is fast or slow and not following that coach advise, because he didn't test me seriously and for 1 minutes swapping balls on table will not be fair enough to build anything, and i can build my style or technique with any racket, and i wasn't looking for fastest or spinniest anyway, but i didn't want to go with his recommendations as well, because today when i posted his recommendations of blades and rackets, members surprised and told me that even his recommendations were fast rackets too, so i feel he was either not sure or in hurry so didn't want to test my full style/skill, and i think even the 2 rackets who gave me to try weren't good or the ones i really want to use, they were old or wore out used blades not new, one of them is belong to a national team player, so i think his test is nothing i can take a fact from.

Also i am not looking for having or training with a coach, i can't afford many many things, i will save hard to get the racket custom then i don't have enough left to pay the coach, he or other coaches all ask money rates for training different than membership subscription which doesn't include the training, so i will spend my money on the racket and i will find another place to play free or very low rate if i can find.

So again, let's say i didn't meet that coach and he didn't tell me what is good for and i want to have a racket to start, so what will be your recommendations? Just to make it a but easier, i want to stick or go only with Butterfly blades, but with rubber i can go with anything, Butterfly or not.
 
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Buy anything you want. You won't use it forever and you will learn from it. Usually, I advise people to buy something in ALL+ to OFF- all wood as their first blade, but it doesn't matter- they seem to know what they want and buy an OFF or OFF+ blade with very fast rubbers. So the correct answer is to do what I did - buy whatever you want and as you get more serious, you will do what it takes to win, including changing your equipment if necessary.
 
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I would say - allround/wood blade.
Put 2 sheets of "classic" rubbers (Sriver, MarkV or some Euro/Jap sponge Chinese rubbers)

As Nextlever said above - you will likely change equipment in the near future. So don't spend too much money and invest in a controlable setup (which is normally cheaper) and focus on some coaching (fees)
 
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Ok, let start with the blade, i am planning or decided i want to stick with Butterfly, so here are the ones i choose to get one when i have budget, what do you think of any of them?

Butterfly Innerforce ALC
Butterfly Timo Boll ALC
Butterfly Zhang Jike ALC
Butterfly Zhang Jike Super ZLC
Butterfly Primorac EX
Butterfly Liu Shiwen
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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Oh, based on what you are looking at, you have overlooked the best one. You have to check out the Jun Mizutani Super ZLC:

http://shop.butterflyonline.com/mizutani-jun-super-zlc-blade-7775p

He actually may use that whereas Zhang Jike definitely does not use the Zhang Jike Super ZLC.

And you should think about getting Tenergy 05 on FH and Tenergy 64 on BH. More pros use Tenergy than any other rubber.
 
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Yeah, the idea of getting a first racket that costs $30.00 and is pretty good, and then taking 10 or so coaching sessions with the money saved, why do that when you could buy a racket that costs $500.00+ and not get any coaching. Besides, a racket that will turn heads at the club you play at has a real value regardless of your level.
 
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Oh, based on what you are looking at, you have overlooked the best one. You have to check out the Jun Mizutani Super ZLC:

He actually may use that whereas Zhang Jike definitely does not use the Zhang Jike Super ZLC.

And you should think about getting Tenergy 05 on FH and Tenergy 64 on BH. More pros use Tenergy than any other rubber.

Well, the point is not to buy the fastest or the most expensive, i posted few Butterfly only blades between reasonable to expensive, doesn't mean i only buy the most expensive, but even if i do, i will not feel sad or regret or blame the blade, but from different sites if i go by reviews or listen to others, it will be more like they recommend according to their preferences or the value, so it is better i go with whatever i can or like and start from there, if i bought a wrong racket then i will know later to buy the right one, but i will never give up on the racket i buy just because i couldn't control it or can't adjust myself with it, i feel the problem is not the racket, it is me who can't get use to any racket i buy even the cheapest one.

About the rubber, i too much leaning towards that Tenergy 05, but i was thinking to use that for BH, and i use something else such as DHS Hurricane 3 [H3] on FH, but i may go with what you said.

Yeah, the idea of getting a first racket that costs $30.00 and is pretty good, and then taking 10 or so coaching sessions with the money saved, why do that when you could buy a racket that costs $500.00+ and not get any coaching. Besides, a racket that will turn heads at the club you play at has a real value regardless of your level.

Well, i am not playing in any club, and i am not trying to show off, it is just i want a racket that can give me speed and control together so that at least it can last with me rather than a racket that is super control but not good speed or other way super fast and bad control then i know i will change that sooner or later and i don't want to go and buy again in less than 2 or 3 years even if i have money, if someone can't adjust or match skill with the racket he/she has at start then they just keep buying one after another after a while because they just improve within the time and ending with racket they should started with, as someone told me on reply to my post "I can recommend you this blade but it is too soon for you to go with it", well, i understand that, then it sounds i must have 2 budgets, one for a reasonable cheap one to start with, and another for the replacement when i am ready to have that "not too soon" blade.

Anyway, in post #7 i posted 6 Butterfly models, so none of them are good to buy as start because they all fast or expensive or lack control? so they are all in same performance or level?
 
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As much as we say this and that, you simply have to experience it yourself.

There is a very wide range of blades and rubbers suitable for your desired offensive game and we can say this one or this one and they may all work.

If I voiced how I REALLY feel about people trying to get perfect blade, I gotta stop doing that, but since I have that contrary streak, I get into it only a little.

There is nothing that replaces firsthand experience.
 
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I have successfully used (modified) some very inexpensive setups that weren't the greatest on the planet, but I could still play.

I have also used some pretty damn expensive setups that I liked a lot better... and they worked... better.

I have used some reasonably priced mainstream equipment that worked... great, and I liked it.

It is nice to ask, and better to listen, and nothing replaces failing for yourself.
 
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Im fairly new to TT(14-15 months) and am now playing little league i will give you some advice from my personal progression so far from having not played any table tennis regularly to now where i consider myself a beginner rather then new.

firstly: everyone is being sarcastic because they've given you advice and you've ignored it. it happens a lot, i didn't realise but apparently all new players buy something super fast and regret it.

the problems with your current choices are:
Butterfly Innerforce ALC
Butterfly Timo Boll ALC
Butterfly Zhang Jike ALC
Butterfly Zhang Jike Super ZLC
Butterfly Primorac EX
Butterfly Liu Shiwen
They're all too fast and the ALC are going to be way too hard.
let me put it this way, would you let a person who doesn't drive learn in a veyron with no traction control? no, because while now and again it might work most of the time they wont be able to control it properly.

EVERYONE wants a fast bat, but the problem for now is that if you get one it will be far too fast. what will happen is that you'll have bad strokes so you can control the ball on the table a good example of this i found is :
see the girl. she is using a fast blade and therefore can only block, and she still misses and has bad technique. this is probably because if she tries hitting it right it flies off.
now this is a problem when you get better as you effectively have made it so you have to start from the beginning to learn to play a proper offensive style because of using half strokes to control the fast blade.

personally my progression(i consider myself a starting EJ) is:
1st bat: butterfly timo boll ALL+ with 729 friendship 2.0mm on both sides. this was a bit hard to control as a beginner as the psonges were very hard. but i got sued to it and it performed well.
2nd bat:i used this at the same time as my 1st one. BTY infinity VPS V with 1.5mm Sriver and 1.5mm FLextra. easier to control and a bit slower then the 1st bat i found mostly due to lightness. better further away from the table.
current: Donic Waldner Legend carbon + 729 super soft FX both sides 2mm. MUCH faster then my old set ups despite the slow rubber. little ball feeling compared to the all wood blades and a crisp hit. this would still be too fast for me as a new player( defensive style rubber with a OFF+ blade is still OFF i think)

don't worry i'm not faultless, i was toying with teh idea of getting one of the cheap clone viscaria from the fs section here and 729-08 es provincial and 729 battle II non tacky because im a equipment boy at heart. but after my leauge game last ngiht and playing so well with my current set up i feel i need 3-4 months more o this set up before i can consider even thinking about moving off my defensive rubbers without loosing all control from my game(let alone getting a new blade).

now i would reccomend somthing more cheap and aligned with this:
Timo Boll ALL+ or OFF- with : sriver 1.5mm forehand and flextra 1.5mm backhand. or 729 super soft fx 2mm both sides.
THIS WILL NOT SMASH OUT POINTS ON GOOD PLAYERS. its slowish and no offence but as a newer player the technique you employ will be slower then a good level player anyway, but what it will do is let you try out different styles of play(close to table, further back a bit, drives loops chops) and learn to control all of these shots with practice. the issue with your blades is you can only really BLOCK and some DRIVES as a loop and chop will be very hard to do compared.

If you get into a club and are looking at lower leauge or a good club level of play 10-20 months down the line depending on coaching(maybe 6-8 then i cant say) then you can move onto a different set up.
 
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As much as we say this and that, you simply have to experience it yourself.

There is a very wide range of blades and rubbers suitable for your desired offensive game and we can say this one or this one and they may all work.

If I voiced how I REALLY feel about people trying to get perfect blade, I gotta stop doing that, but since I have that contrary streak, I get into it only a little.

There is nothing that replaces firsthand experience.

I have successfully used (modified) some very inexpensive setups that weren't the greatest on the planet, but I could still play.

I have also used some pretty damn expensive setups that I liked a lot better... and they worked... better.

I have used some reasonably priced mainstream equipment that worked... great, and I liked it.

It is nice to ask, and better to listen, and nothing replaces failing for yourself.


I agree in both of your posts, and i do post and ask and listen and debate and more, i didn't buy anything yet and will not buy as i don't have budget, so until the time i will have the budget i will have more knowledge or better backgrounds about rackets or recommendations, this happens everywhere even with my other favorite hobby, Photography, it is the same, i ask about which camera or lens and i get thousands of recommendations and most are based on money or preferences or experience of use with members, i think it is the same in TT too.

To me, now i feel that the blade is the main issue to choose over the rubber, i may buy 5 different rubbers but still didn't decide one blade, so i will leave rubber to the end, almost i have 2-3 choices in my mind.
 
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Im fairly new to TT(14-15 months) and am now playing little league i will give you some advice from my personal progression so far from having not played any table tennis regularly to now where i consider myself a beginner rather then new.

firstly: everyone is being sarcastic because they've given you advice and you've ignored it. it happens a lot, i didn't realise but apparently all new players buy something super fast and regret it.

the problems with your current choices are:
Butterfly Innerforce ALC
Butterfly Timo Boll ALC
Butterfly Zhang Jike ALC
Butterfly Zhang Jike Super ZLC
Butterfly Primorac EX
Butterfly Liu Shiwen
They're all too fast and the ALC are going to be way too hard.
let me put it this way, would you let a person who doesn't drive learn in a veyron with no traction control? no, because while now and again it might work most of the time they wont be able to control it properly.

EVERYONE wants a fast bat, but the problem for now is that if you get one it will be far too fast. what will happen is that you'll have bad strokes so you can control the ball on the table a good example of this i found is :
see the girl. she is using a fast blade and therefore can only block, and she still misses and has bad technique. this is probably because if she tries hitting it right it flies off.
now this is a problem when you get better as you effectively have made it so you have to start from the beginning to learn to play a proper offensive style because of using half strokes to control the fast blade.

personally my progression(i consider myself a starting EJ) is:
1st bat: butterfly timo boll ALL+ with 729 friendship 2.0mm on both sides. this was a bit hard to control as a beginner as the psonges were very hard. but i got sued to it and it performed well.
2nd bat:i used this at the same time as my 1st one. BTY infinity VPS V with 1.5mm Sriver and 1.5mm FLextra. easier to control and a bit slower then the 1st bat i found mostly due to lightness. better further away from the table.
current: Donic Waldner Legend carbon + 729 super soft FX both sides 2mm. MUCH faster then my old set ups despite the slow rubber. little ball feeling compared to the all wood blades and a crisp hit. this would still be too fast for me as a new player( defensive style rubber with a OFF+ blade is still OFF i think)

don't worry i'm not faultless, i was toying with teh idea of getting one of the cheap clone viscaria from the fs section here and 729-08 es provincial and 729 battle II non tacky because im a equipment boy at heart. but after my leauge game last ngiht and playing so well with my current set up i feel i need 3-4 months more o this set up before i can consider even thinking about moving off my defensive rubbers without loosing all control from my game(let alone getting a new blade).

now i would reccomend somthing more cheap and aligned with this:
Timo Boll ALL+ or OFF- with : sriver 1.5mm forehand and flextra 1.5mm backhand. or 729 super soft fx 2mm both sides.
THIS WILL NOT SMASH OUT POINTS ON GOOD PLAYERS. its slowish and no offence but as a newer player the technique you employ will be slower then a good level player anyway, but what it will do is let you try out different styles of play(close to table, further back a bit, drives loops chops) and learn to control all of these shots with practice. the issue with your blades is you can only really BLOCK and some DRIVES as a loop and chop will be very hard to do compared.

If you get into a club and are looking at lower leauge or a good club level of play 10-20 months down the line depending on coaching(maybe 6-8 then i cant say) then you can move onto a different set up.

Well, my english is not good yet, so from your long post i can say you recommend me to go with BTY Timo Ball All+? It is ok, i can go with that blade because it is still a Butterfly one, but are you really telling me to go with that or you try with me to avoid all Butterfly in general?

about the rubber, it is ok, i wouldn't mind what you ask me, it is not a big deal.

Thanks about that video, but i really don't play like how she play, i don't return balls this way at all, i may do that only if i am off mood or just want to waste time, but i return ball different way and different handling and i don't hit it out this way, maybe one day i should take a video of my playing then.
 
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thats what i mean is that having a too fast bat will make your strokes bad. hers are somthing else but its a possible bad side.
yeah i reccommend a timo ALL+ for two reasons. 1.) its slow enough to allow your game to develop while able still to hit a fast enough shot to play offensive if you need at a lower level. 2.) its cheap, now i know this might not be a problem considering your choices. but the reason why is in 1-2 years(from my experience) you'll then be at a better standard where you can think about the butterfly ALC range as a balde for your bat. so it will cost the extra on top(which is thankfull about £30 where i am which isnt hugely expensive )
i noted you liked butterfly and thought it might be due to supply.
think of table tennis like learning to race cars.
you need to start off slower so you can get good habits and win by skill rather than power of your bat.
hope that helped
however a lot of people here know more than me. its just from personal experience as a new player
 
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thats what i mean is that having a too fast bat will make your strokes bad. hers are somthing else but its a possible bad side.
yeah i reccommend a timo ALL+ for two reasons. 1.) its slow enough to allow your game to develop while able still to hit a fast enough shot to play offensive if you need at a lower level. 2.) its cheap, now i know this might not be a problem considering your choices. but the reason why is in 1-2 years(from my experience) you'll then be at a better standard where you can think about the butterfly ALC range as a balde for your bat. so it will cost the extra on top(which is thankfull about £30 where i am which isnt hugely expensive )
i noted you liked butterfly and thought it might be due to supply.
think of table tennis like learning to race cars.
you need to start off slower so you can get good habits and win by skill rather than power of your bat.
hope that helped
however a lot of people here know more than me. its just from personal experience as a new player

You posted very good and i understand your point very well.

In fact even that Timo Ball All+ wasn't a recommendations from others, you are the only one, others just by sarcastic recommend to go with fastest Butterfly blade without giving me another Butterfly options slower like what you did, so i thought they just don't like Butterfly or it is either very expensive or very fast all of them. And i chose butterfly because there is Butterfly supplier in my area, maybe Stiga too, but no Chinese or other brands, so i decided i will go with Butterfly.

I am planning to visit my university i was studying in it in the past as i know one coach there and i can play there free, he has butterfly racket if i remember or he keep going with BTY rackets, so i will go there and play few games with students and i will ask him to give me one of his rackets if Butterfly and see how it will perform in my hand and in the games, and i will check out that model and see if it is the good one to use or to start with or it wasn't good to play with from the games as starter, now i can't decide or judge anything without playing games first.
 
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Haha, I always see it nearly every post where a player asks about a bat, then the battle of the pundits ensues. It is hilarious to me. Pundits have a very NARROW small defined range of equipment they feel is the ONLY equipment range appropriate for players learning the game. I will not argue against a pundit and say his recommended equipment range wont work, because it will likely work.

My point is there is such a WIDE RANGE of possible equipment it is really too much to list.

Pundits argue that just about anything over ALL or OFF- speed range will cause the player to make bad strokes. HAHAHAHAHAH triple HAHA if a player doesn't have effective coaching, his strokes, footwork, EVERYTHING will be crap compared to the players who get effective coaching. If a player has a pundit approved ALL blade with Sriver, yet doesn't get or hasn't gotten effective coaching and learning, then his shots will done off balance, out of position, out of strike zone, off time... you get the idea.

Let's look at a TTD forum member who is new ot the sport- our own AGOLD. He started out with a 7 Ply blade SEVEN, I don't know the one, but it was likely OFF Minus at a minimum and he moved to the excellent Viscaria, which he slapped the face of pundits violating their sensibilities by slapping on a sheet of H3 and TENERGY 05 for crying out loud !!! Call the pundit POLICE !!! The Viscaria is an OFF class blade and with H3 and T05, it isn't in the pundit's sweet spot zone for sure, way over it.

Based on pundit speak, AGOLD after his 14 months into the sport using all the wrong equipment should be all screwed up in every department and should be a young player whose equipment being too powerful should be making all his shots go long/out and the macho man setup should be making his strokes way to herky jerky short.

HAHAH triple HAHAH anyone who can take a look at AGOLD in real live action will be proven WRONG and Der_Echte will be eating lunch at their expense the whole month.

agold moved up from USATT 400 rating (which means you can barely serve and keep the ball on the table) to 1600 USATT rating in 14 months. 1600 USATT level means you are at the upper level of mean average USA (or Korean) club level player.

Somebody step up to the mike and publically accuse agold of using the wrong equipment ! Huh? C'mon, somebody, ANYBODY come on out and say he is wrong!!! Haha agold is a nice lad, but he'll clock you his own self, he don't need Der_Echte muscle, he got enough of his own to take care of himself in this matter.

agold increased his level a full level every 2-3 months because he has a good effective coach, he LISTENS to his coach, he works his azz off, and oh yeah, he posts at TTD.

Man I tell you, this "OFF bat is too fast" stuff cracks me up. I am cetain agold could have made the same jump using his Viscaria, or my pundit class Der_Echte special.

What else cracks me up is people looking around at what is around and selecting only the most premium expensive well established stuff out there as the only possible stuff.

The 896 ALL+ blade at $16 and the ZJK Super Duper expensive $350 USD + Blade will both work with my favorite rubbers of Aurus and XP 2008 and either and all between will work with H3 (if it is broken in) and T05 (like agold uses). Gotta be a thousand possible blades that can work for an offensive player.

I gotta agree with the attitude and intent of the pundit recommendation - something SUITABLE speed class range and possible to make at least every stroke well enough (not necessarily spectacular) which will allow a player the learn all fundamental strokes with the same bat for a flexible offensive attacking game. I get that, I just severely disagree with the narrow band pundits define as appropriate. Many, if not most ALL to ALL+ flexy blades, just about every OFF Minus wood or composite blade, and a goodly number of OFF class blades are possible suitable blades for this.

C'mon, SOMEONE say agold is wrong, double dare all the pundits. :)
 
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