Illegal serves, are you guilty of any

htfu · Jul 14, 2015

had a discussion about services at a summer league match last week, i pointed out some illegal serves and the "it's a fun league, why pull people up on serves" got brought up along with a few others (ignorance, never been shown how to serve properly, it's not a big deal, etc).

i tend to have the same discussion a lot, with varying degrees of success ...

JHB · Jul 14, 2015

It's difficult to think of another sport where ignorance of the rules is a badge of honour - football, possibly ?

htfu · Jul 14, 2015

i don't think it is the sport that is the issue, it's just people. that which someone can get away with they carry on doing .. until it becomes "accepted behaviour" at least in their eyes.

vvk1 · Jul 14, 2015

htfu said:
had a discussion about services at a summer league match last week, i pointed out some illegal serves and the "it's a fun league, why pull people up on serves" got brought up along with a few others (ignorance, never been shown how to serve properly, it's not a big deal, etc).

i tend to have the same discussion a lot, with varying degrees of success ...

Haha. My teammates complained to me about you after the match

Speaking seriously, I get where you're coming from. You, me and everyone on this forum are super-passionate about TT, and care deeply about the game. However, a lot of amateur players (like many playing in the summer league) are not that passionate. Some don't even play every week. And what's 100% certain - they're not trying to obtain any advantage by serving "illegally" - it is simply the only way they know how too serve.

And therefore, trying to score cheap points by calling out their serves as illegal seems just wrong, at least to me.

However, next time you and I play each other at BTTC - please don't hesitate to tell me if my serve is not 100% legal

Tinykin · Jul 14, 2015

Is serving off the side a problem for the receiver?
I don't think it is any worse than any other serve. If it was, then we'd see it much more often.

bobpuls · Jul 15, 2015

Hmmmmm according this rules are playing practically all young players at the European youth champs illegal serves . ;-)
Have a look
http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?10846-European-Youth-Championships-2015

JHB · Jul 15, 2015

vvk1 said:
Speaking seriously, I get where you're coming from. You, me and everyone on this forum are super-passionate about TT, and care deeply about the game. However, a lot of amateur players (like many playing in the summer league) are not that passionate. Some don't even play every week. And what's 100% certain - they're not trying to obtain any advantage by serving "illegally" - it is simply the only way they know how too serve.

And therefore, trying to score cheap points by calling out their serves as illegal seems just wrong, at least to me.

This is the same argument as "Old Harry/Fred/Jim has been serving that way for 50 years, you can't make him change now." If players aren't prepared to make some basic effort to know the rules of the game and to conform at least to the spirit of those rules if not the letter, why are they playing in a league ?

NextLevel · Jul 15, 2015

Because the league is fun and you don't have to play by every single top level professional rule to have fun.

JHB · Jul 15, 2015

NextLevel said:
Because the league is fun and you don't have to play by every single top level professional rule to have fun.

Lol we could have a separate and equally interesting discussion about how an evening spent in the average UK table tennis venue constitutes fun, but that would probably be getting a bit far off-topic so I shan't go there.

Let's approach this from a different angle; if we accept that a summer league IS as much about the fun element as it is about competition, and that we should consequently be a little more relaxed in our interpretation of the rules - which parts of the (admittedly complex) service rules are we prepared to overlook and which parts would most of us insist should be followed ?

NextLevel · Jul 15, 2015

JHB said:
Lol we could have a separate and equally interesting discussion about how an evening spent in the average UK table tennis venue constitutes fun, but that would probably be getting a bit far off-topic so I shan't go there.

Let's approach this from a different angle; if we accept that a summer league IS as much about the fun element as it is about competition, and that we should consequently be a little more relaxed in our interpretation of the rules - which parts of the (admittedly complex) service rules are we prepared to overlook and which parts would most of us insist should be followed ?

Many servers, if an issue with their serve is pointed out, will try to serve as legally as possible. So this is negotiable in most circumstances. I personally don't formally complain about illegal serves unless I am at an umpired tournament. But if they bother you, bring it to the attention of the server and go from there. For me, most old timers do not toss the ball and others hide their serves. So I use that as practice for reading spin off the ball. I guess it helps that most of the players who do this are usually good enough to beat me regardless, but this is not always the case.

vvk1 · Jul 15, 2015

JHB said:
This is the same argument as "Old Harry/Fred/Jim has been serving that way for 50 years, you can't make him change now." If players aren't prepared to make some basic effort to know the rules of the game and to conform at least to the spirit of those rules if not the letter, why are they playing in a league ?

Ok. Typical scenario. "Old Harry/Fred/Jim" serves and does not toss the ball high (or vertically) enough. Or maybe they even, gosh, start the ball toss just below the table surface. There is no attempt at pre/post-serve disguise motions, no foot stomping, nada. The resulting serve is usually long, not that fast, bounces well over net height, not spinny at all or the spin is clearly seen, and is basically loop-killable at will. Are you seriously suggesting that the receiver stops play and complains about legality of the serve? Come on.

JamDoughnuts · Feb 28, 2016

I think pro's sometimes throw the ball into their body and use their torso to hide the ball briefly before roating out the way, umpires usually can't see this from where they sit. (trick for people to cheat points)

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Illegal serves, are you guilty of any

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