Handicap points - My true story!

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Hi all,

In Korea, handicap points are usually given when the higher level playing against lower one. Recently I tried to play at a new club (actually a group of people in town who love table tennis getting together) very nearby my house, so that I only spend a couple of hours for exercise in weekend, thats good enough.

By 1st time playing after away from the table for almost 8 months, I totally had no feeling for the ball and my footwork was almost dead, wrong timing in every shot, playing more or less like a beginner with few months practicing. As a result, I lost to most of people in this new club.

By 2nd time trying, I felt much better and defeated all the guys I lost previously, but lost to a short pip old man and did not have chance to play with the one who is called "coach" at there, even though I never seen him playing so far, sometimes coaching but most of the time "oral coaching" for someone during the matches. By the end of the day, they started to talk about what club level I could fit in. Top guys were saying I should be at level as same as theirs, but the short pip man and the "coach" refused it. They discussed, convinced people around and eventually put me at low level as beginner in the club, although all other top one did feel odd about it and only explained to me "I dun know, next time we will still play without handicap, never mind your level, its only coach's opinion". Im cool, no problem 'coz I am actually youngest there. However, beside some old men saying that to me, there were somebody else quite agreed with the coach.

In 3rd time, weirdest moment I ever experienced after few years playing table tennis in Korea. I played with two old people who agreed with the coach before. The funny thing was their attitude when they came to the score board and gave me 3-4 points without even a bit concern. Note that I played them before and they stood no chance to even get 7 points against me in every single set. I was not okay anymore and tried to win as much as possible. They got only 2-3 points for the first two sets, and the umpire (also the crowd) was feeling not right and reduced the handi to 2 (minimum handi, the umpire actually asked them not to give handi but they refused). After 3-0 games straight for both of them, the coach came in and asked the results. They only emphasized the number of handicap, not to mention win or lose and somebody actually "helped" them to speak it.

Other guys who did agree with the coach before, but surely figured out they cannot beat me for sure. They chose not to play with me even though I asked again and again, convinced them that I only wanna practice for fun and exercise. Simply because the coach is the one to decide all of the level in that club and they just dun want to play with me who is lower level than them. If they get defeated too easily, there will be no fun with the coach.

Quite bad experience, I thought I could have found a place nearby my house to have fun and blast in weekend, instead of spending 7-8 hours at my old club.
 
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Hey Brice, great to see ya again.

I lost 2.5 levels easily in just 2-3 months playing absolutely zero TT. I confirmed this at my last tourney. You lose your feel for the ball a little even with just one week away, 8 months is a long time. I can personally understand your situation.

I am pretty famous in Korea for popping in unexpected to Korean clubs, so I know a thing or two about how the clubs usually work.

You correctly said that that essentially, the club where you are visiting essentially will be very generous with you in declaring your playing level. They do this for three reasons. They want to make the new player feel good. They want to be fair (on the new player's side). They want that player to keep coming back to the club.

Usually, you play in city and regional level tourneys in a certain division called BOO, so if you are mens 5 BOO, you are Div 5 and under the 2+1+1 system, the first level of difference is 2 points, then one point for each additional level of difference. When I was Div 2 and played a Div 5 player, I would cough up a 4 point handicap. That is the same handicap I coughed up to your wife in the tourneys I setup for you in Uijeungbu. (And she almost polished me off ! ) (She was leading 2-0 in games)

So, whenever I go to a new place and the players want a serious match with the appropriate handicap, I say I am Div 3 Seoul and they know what to do. North of Seoul I am Div 2. Pretty much most serious amature players have heard of me by the time I was two years in Korea, so most of the time they knew already, even some Tourney Directors would try to move me up to higher division too tough for me.

It sounds like the club you found is one of the minority of neighborhood TT enthusiasts who are not very good, but really love TT, there area few of those clubs around and there are clubs that are not really clubs but just a place to pay some money and rent a table.
 
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Did you ever get your shirts fixed up, my fault for the mis-spelling.

Haha It is okay William, I just keep it to remind of you sometimes kkk

About that new club, I still keep defeating all the folks there from the 2nd time participating till now, and its funny that they still want to give me handicap all the time. I told the story to my coach in old club, he also agrees that people in new club, especially the "coach" at there, are very weird :)
 
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Hey Brice, how is it going? whats the name of the club? It really sounds a bit weird ㅋㅋㅋ But you need to understand the coach too. He probably judged you from your first time appearance and therefore put you into a lower lvl as you actually are. I think he now knows your real lvl of play but can't admit it because of 'face-loss'. He obviously made a mistake but can't correct it anymore. I mean he is the coach and as you mentioned everyone in the club seems to respect him without questioning. The problem the coach has now, is that he and several other players in the club, especially the ones who won't play with you, know about the mistake the coach made about you play lvl, but ge and the players can't correct it as therfore the coach would lose his face and his credibility.
 
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Hi Schlaftablette, this is not really club but just small group of people playing in Itaewon area, no club name, only about 7 active players (25 members) but they dun usually get together all, but time to time about 3-4 showing up, only weekend is most crowded. I am getting used to the situation. In fact, in positive viewpoint, I am more relaxed to play with handicap, so that I keep practicing new techniques without being beaten. I guess some people there are a bit tired of losing again and again now, but well, they still do it and I am willing to accept their nice offers kkk
Thank you for your thought anyway :D
 
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Brice, I got an idea for you...

Start playing then for who pays for Chicken and beer. Make a round robin of 4 players who want in. Winner is free, 2nd place pays 5000 Won, 3rd place pays 10,000, and 4th place pays 15,000.

One of two things will happen. You will either keep getting free food and drink, or you will get your playing adjusted to something more realistic.

After all, a student is supposed to be poor, and you can "milk" this one for a while if they do not adjust your playing level.
 
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hahaha wow William, I never thought of this, why wouldn't I have done it earlier hahaha Next time visit, I will give this suggestion and see how it works. Only one concern is that I am just too young compared to all members at there, is that too rude if I suggest this idea? of course with smiling face ^^
 
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If you suggest to everyone to go out and eat at a restaurant, then you are paying.

You can freely suggest the Chicken/Beer round robin thing anytime, but it is better to do it on a weekend, Friday night.... but ANYTIME is a good time for chicken and beer, the sustenance of Champions.

If you want to take it to a whole new level, you can get together as many players who want in for this, usually cocky old me fall for it... Man-Won-BBang.

What that is you make a min tourney. Everyone contributes 10,000 won (Man Won) and the winner of the mini-tourney takes it all. Everyone else gets nothing. (Bbang) that is why it is called man-won-bbang.

The club owner gets a cut as a professional courtesy, you order some delivery food and a plastic bottle of draft beer to keep him happy. You still get to walk out with 20,000 Won, enough to feed a poor student for a couple days. :D

I guarantee you that if you up the pressure in either of the chicken/beer or Man-Won Bbang, the club will classify you more realistically, you will continue to get free food and many playing off the old guyz egos, or they will ask you to not play there.

One of those things will happen for sure and you sure don't want to keep your current classification there unless you get paid for it.
 
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For real Brice, you have seen enough old-school Korean dudes, they like to fight and try to win, even if the chances are slim. They love battle and challenges. Many of them are not likely to turn down a challenge even if in their heart they know they will not win.

This is another way to make them happy... as long as you do not over do it.

You all go out together on an after-match mission to teh chicken and beer place and down a few beers and over there challenge them occasionally a few one shots of full 500 ml glass a few times, they will LOVE you and you will be legend.
 
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Why do koreans bother with these kind of handicap situations and player-levelling even in this type of casual settings?

I dont know about you, but I sure as hell wont feel good knowing that I am openly being put in tiers lower than that of other players and will very likely just throw the games.....we dont even do handicaps here when we normal players have to play england nationals.....much less players that you know you can easily beat

On a side note, I've never played in a handicap situation other than those times when my cocky bastard of a really close friend decides that he wont let me past 7 points....
 
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Why do koreans bother with these kind of handicap situations and player-levelling even in this type of casual settings?

I dont know about you, but I sure as hell wont feel good knowing that I am openly being put in tiers lower than that of other players and will very likely just throw the games.....we dont even do handicaps here when we normal players have to play england nationals.....much less players that you know you can easily beat

On a side note, I've never played in a handicap situation other than those times when my cocky bastard of a really close friend decides that he wont let me past 7 points....

Hi cake, you gotta play in Korean amature TT to know for yourself, no matter how (I do a poor job) I describe it.

The higher level players do not want to play lower level players and defeat them easily, so they give handicap points, makes it more interesting to them. The lower players also want a better chance to win, so to them, it is win-win. This also encourages everyone to play together. Without suc an incentive, the club would quickly be forming separate groups who do not get along or play each other.
 
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I have done a few Man-Won BBang and never won them. there were always 2-3 players in the 8 player group too strong for me. I knew going in I would never win and lose 10,000 Won (around USD $10) but the level of intensity and competition and fighting and fun... you couldn't beat it... unless you were playing to see who pays for the chicken, that is no holds barred TT there.
 
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I agree with William. Might as well make them pay financially. You could even bet them individually and dare them to play you for money without a spot.
Somehow Korean culture is very harsh on this situation, when a young guy suggest a bet game against the old guys. Especially in my particular situation, when those old people know for sure it is too hard for them to beat me with handicap points, then my suggestion will be nothing but embarrass them anyway.

For William (Der_Echte), he is way easier to make all of those happen 'coz he is old hahaha (sorry bro). But of course I will try to suggest nicely a chipping-game for chicken and beer. Thats good idea and people over here do it all the time.

cakezxc280 said:
Why do koreans bother with these kind of handicap situations and player-levelling even in this type of casual settings?

I dont know about you, but I sure as hell wont feel good knowing that I am openly being put in tiers lower than that of other players and will very likely just throw the games.....we dont even do handicaps here when we normal players have to play england nationals.....much less players that you know you can easily beat

On a side note, I've never played in a handicap situation other than those times when my cocky bastard of a really close friend decides that he wont let me past 7 points....
I had a chance to experience your culture (Taiwan, right?). I have a good friend who play above me 1 city/level. At first moment when we met, we played almost same with equal winning ratio, but he trained a lot during break seasons in China and upped a level higher already.

When I brought him to my old club where I was taking lesson, he played with a high level guy in the club. 'Coz that guy is much higher level than us (2 or 3 city levels above), he suggested 3 points handicap. The young friend here (freshman in college) could not say anything but accepted. Consequently, he played totally different, looked like he gave up from the beginning and threw up the game. Since then, I know his problem and told all of the guys at there not to give him handicap anymore.

Of course people in my old club know me for long time so we are very friendly, I have no problem to suggest that. But for the new club I am playing (twice a month) right now, its hard to say anything to correct them :(
 
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I had a chance to experience your culture (Taiwan, right?). I have a good friend who play above me 1 city/level. At first moment when we met, we played almost same with equal winning ratio, but he trained a lot during break seasons in China and upped a level higher already.

When I brought him to my old club where I was taking lesson, he played with a high level guy in the club. 'Coz that guy is much higher level than us (2 or 3 city levels above), he suggested 3 points handicap. The young friend here (freshman in college) could not say anything but accepted. Consequently, he played totally different, looked like he gave up from the beginning and threw up the game. Since then, I know his problem and told all of the guys at there not to give him handicap anymore.

Of course people in my old club know me for long time so we are very friendly, I have no problem to suggest that. But for the new club I am playing (twice a month) right now, its hard to say anything to correct them :(

Yea thats what I will probably do if im given a handicap. I guess that why we rarely do it in Taiwan.
Btw whats that city level thing you talked about? We are usually ranked by ratings and there are like 3 different tiers o competitions thats seperated by ratings....and as far as i know there are only 3 levels and im on the 2nd towards the 1st.
Most proper coaches are like 2400+ in ratings and plays in the top level....
 
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Cake, a 2400 USA TT level player would be 2+ levels better than a Div 1 City player. In a city or regional tourney, such a player would be a Div MINUS 1 player and give a 3 pt handicap to the Div 1 city players.

2400 level player would win some National Open Tourneys in Div 1. A Div 1 City player is only a Div 3 player in National Open Tourney.

That might be more confusing, but players have different levels of classification in different types of tourneys.
 
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