European Loop vs Chinese Loop?

Using a chinese rubber witha chinese loop,you are able to spin the ball much better and easier than euro rubbers.

Euro loop is less arm motion,easier to execute

'Chinese loop' is definitly more powerfull but to get the most out of it it will require alot of fysical training

Shiro said:

We all know there are 2 types of loops, European and Chinese.

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I don't believe in such myths and fairy tales.

Pnachtwey said:

I don't believe in such myths and fairy tales.

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It isn't a myth or fairy tale.look close at the loops.it is very easy to notice the difference.
Chinese loop uses more of the whole arm,to generate power and spin,whereas the euro loop uses the elbow as a pivot.

Shiro said:

When you say easier to execute, do you mean like easier to loop this way or easy for the opponent to counter it?

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I mean easier to loop this way.

Chinese rubbers use friction to generate the spin,so the greater force you apply,the greater the spin will be.

mahomedy13 said:

It isn't a myth or fairy tale

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Yes it is.

.look close at the loops.it is very easy to notice the difference.
Chinese loop uses more of the whole arm,to generate power and spin,whereas the euro loop uses the elbow as a pivot.

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European and American players use the whole arm too if the ball is that far from them. Chinese players will use an elbow stroke if the ball is close. Good players do what is expedient. No matter how good your foot work is the other guy is trying to make a point that it isn't good enough to use the same stroke all the time.

Pnachtwey said:

Yes it is.


European and American players use the whole arm too if the ball is that far from them. Chinese players will use an elbow stroke if the ball is close. Good players do what is expedient. No matter how good your foot work is the other guy is trying to make a point that it isn't good enough to use the same stroke all the time.

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Seriously?is this your punch-line?obviously,the opponent is trying to geta point.the point I am making is that in a normal stroke,the chinese use the whole arm,whereas the europeans use more elbow pivoting.

The best way to see this is by watching them do multiball

So the European loop has less spin?

Then do you get Korean loop and Japanese Loop or is that part of European loop or Chinese loop?

Tony's Table Tennis said:

So the European loop has less spin?

Then do you get Korean loop and Japanese Loop or is that part of European loop or Chinese loop?

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Not necessarily.the more force you add,the greater the spin.
But in the case of chinese rubbers,friction is on your side.the more force you add,it is assisted by friction to give you more spin.

The main difference is the rubber. Europe and Japanese playeres use rubbers like tenergy which has a lot of catapult. This means it is much easier to loop and to flick (that is why chinese players use tenergy on their BH). Good exaple is Ma long and Timo Boll.
Ma long fh topisn: - the elbow is abnou 120 degrees and use more shoulder
Timo fh topsin: - the elbow is 90degrees and use more wrist
Chinese rubbers do not execute anything for you, but you have great control so everything depends on you. Catapult rubbers are easier to use, you do not need to force yourself to make a fast or spinny ball, but in that case you have less control.

Ma Long used H3 National with a different sponge on the BH recently.

I feel like this topic has come up before and don't really like how the loops are labelled "Chinese" and "European," if anything I think it should be called something along the lines of 'full-arm' and 'half-arm' because as mentioned previously all players do typically use both strokes but when in control of the rally one player may prefer to use a full-arm loop and another may prefer a half-arm--whether this is due to equipment or training it's hard to say but I think it's fair to say both components have a factor in how a player prefers to loop.

Acceleration is what generates spin regardless of what kind of rubber you are using. What does acceleration mean? It is not the top speed of the racket. It is the ability of the racket to go from slow to fast.

If you compare Ma Long's FH with ZJK's, FZD's, Fang Bo's, Xu Xin's, Wang Hao's and Ma Lin's, they all actually use different forehand technique. Interesting since they are all Chinese and supposedly doing a "Chinese" loop.

These posts give excellent information:

Pnachtwey said:

European and American players use the whole arm too if the ball is that far from them. Chinese players will use an elbow stroke if the ball is close.

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FZD is frequently using an FH stroke with mostly forearm snap and not much shoulder, especially when close to the table.

Tony's Table Tennis said:

So the European loop has less spin?

Then do you get Korean loop and Japanese Loop or is that part of European loop or Chinese loop?

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Tony might not be spelling everything out but there are real gems in there. That has a ton of information in only a few words.

aerial said:

I feel like this topic has come up before and don't really like how the loops are labelled "Chinese" and "European," if anything I think it should be called something along the lines of 'full-arm' and 'half-arm' because as mentioned previously all players do typically use both strokes but when in control of the rally one player may prefer to use a full-arm loop and another may prefer a half-arm--whether this is due to equipment or training it's hard to say but I think it's fair to say both components have a factor in how a player prefers to loop.

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That quote is really worth understanding.

As a general statement, when closer to the table, less shoulder and more forearm snap help you recover faster. As you move further away from the table the strokes become bigger. Also, when you do a stroke with mostly forearm snap and not much shoulder, you are taking the ball closer to you. When you use a full arm stroke you are taking the ball further away from your body.

But many of the guys credited with using a FULL ARM STROKE have so much training that they can use a stroke that is usually safer when you are at mid-distance, even when they are close to or over the table.

So I think the fact that the top Chinese players often use a "full arm loop" while still close to the table has a decent amount to do with how much training they have and how fast their reset is. I also think it has to do with the CNT philosophy for playing the game. Hit as hard and as fast as you can any time you can. Try to end the point as soon as possible.

Those gigantic over the table loops that Ma Long does so often off a push or off his opponent's half long serve, he is not doing them because he is expecting the ball to come back so he can set up his 5th shot. He is trying to end the point as soon as he can.

Most of the training I get seems to be about spinning the ball as much as possible, staying in control, going at only about 60% and trying to be ready for the next ball. The CNT players usually aren't doing that. And, going all out, they still can recover and play the next ball with a top quality shot after they just went 110% on their previous shot.

Full Arm Stroke and Half Arm Stroke are excellent ways of categorizing this.

The things about the DHS tacky rubber that really lends themselves to the Full Arm Stroke is that, rubbers like H3 have a lot of control, and the sponge does not catapult the ball quite as much. So you can take a bigger swing and still maintain control a bit more easily. The extra catapult qualities of the speed glue effect tensor rubbers give you so much pop that a full arm stroke from closer to the table is a bit more risky.

But a full arm stroke can be done with any kind of rubber and from any distance.

there are no 2 kinds of loop strictly speaking. chinese players use harder tacky rubbers and put in more body into their forehands because they are almost always in position to do it. shibaev uses a very "chinese" forehand and also most of the koreans. when dealing with a quick ball into their body the chinese will execute a very "european" forehand loop.

Carl

You caught me haha

I think there is way too much "amateurs" who are "experts" in Chinese loop vs European loop

The fact is, you get Europeans who has Chinese style and Chinese that have European style
We can therefore call today's table tennis - hybrid style

We also need to take into account the contact point of the ball - that also determines the angle of the stroke.
And you are right - full stroke + reset, this is always Chinese's advantage - a 20 year full time training will allow you to do this. But consequences is physical form - if the form is gone (old age), then one can not continue with this style

IMO, there is no European loop vs Chinese loop of today.
This term was created few decades ago, and irrelevant today.

Well, I didn't want to say so much. Still wanting to see where Korean loop and Japanese loop fits in (as they are also pretty unique). I would put them in "hybrid" style too.

Back to checking out all the experts "theoretical" explanation on table tennis

To add some fun
new terminology:

Chinese loop version 40+
European loop version 40+

hehe

Then there are several versions of the 1 ply Hinoki loop.




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I simply giggle when I see the Chinese vs Euro loop thing. Truth is, there are MANY effective FH topspins, both for main attack vs topspin, and variations vs other balls, a TT athlete could use several different kind of FH based on hte ball and what he is trying to to and what the opponent is allowing him to do.

Normally, I would be inclined to do a major thread hijack and invite all my friends on a topic like this, but Carl & Co are busy devising schemes to foil the Goon Squads, tricking the NSA to spy on his mother in law, messing around testing new versions of some special phones, and trying like heck to get unsuspecting forum members to jump off the Brooklyn bridge on a dare. Carl got too much on his plate to help me hijack this thread.

Let's just say there are many possible effective ways to hit a FH topspin and maybe look at some of them and see if they can benefit any of us?

I hit 5 or 6 different kinds of BH topspin, 3 of them over the table are different. Carl has seen them and they all work well if I am in position and ready to do it. Carl and Tony will tell you there is more than one way to skin a cat (fish).