Super Ghost Serve by Japanese player!

dici · Jun 17, 2015

Suga D said:
I'm not sayin' it's easy to flip this. But then how come you hardly see this being done on ProTour or WTTC? I guess there must be a reason, or do you think this dude is the first and only one who came up with this serve? ;-)
By the way...
Do you actually know the armlength of vladimir samsonov? ;-)
And there is quite a few tall and long-armed players in the top 200. ;-)
Again: it is a good serve to have as a variation, but i wouldn't want my game depending on this serve.

I and my friend tried to play the return with this serve before. In the conclusion, we would say that if as long as the opponent know you are going to serve it, it is very easy for them to FH flip it (no need BH). Just step from side of table and flip.

It only good for occasionally during amateur match, to surprise them. It is not really good in pro match because the motion to serve it is too obvious.

T!Christian · Jun 17, 2015

nice serve but despite some of the previous comments this serve is actually quite easy to flip. if it is that high (as you can see clearly due to the good camera angle) you have plenty of choices to return. you can push it with even more underspin to the whole table, flip it hard diagonally or "lift it up" on both far end edges of the table

Tony's Table Tennis · Jun 17, 2015

T!Christian said:
nice serve but despite some of the previous comments this serve is actually quite easy to flip. if it is that high (as you can see clearly due to the good camera angle) you have plenty of choices to return. you can push it with even more underspin to the whole table, flip it hard diagonally or "lift it up" on both far end edges of the table

Its always easier on screen - especially watching replays.
But reality in a match, it is all about reading the serves and most of the time, guessing/premeditating the serve.

The last 2 serves is more unique. Even though margin of error is high.
As it lands so close to the net, most players will struggle to reach it, yet alone get it over (before it touches the net)

ttmonster · Jun 17, 2015

Guys , this is happening more with the ball change , especially with the Nittaku 3 Star plastic ball. One of my friends was already doing it , and getting around 70-80% in practice and almost 60% on a good day in match. There is no way to flick the one that goes back to the net, the other one you can if its reachable from he forehand side of the table. however if somebody can make it bounce approx. at the middle of the backhand half there is nothing you can do, other than flip left handed when jumping around the table.

GiorgosTT · Jun 17, 2015

I agree that the first couple serves are too high, and therefore easily returnable. But guys, come on, the last two serves are unreturnable and would be straight winners even against the greatest players. There is simply nothing you can do! The ball bounces 1-2cm from the net and goes directly to the net. If someone could produce this serve consistently, he/she would never lose a point in serve!

The point is that this has very little margin of error, as you have to place it exactly there for it to be effective. And that is the reason that noone attempts something like this in competition.

Cornel · Jun 17, 2015

Kevzar said:
I'm more interested about what rubber he's using instead of the service being useful. The power of spin stands above all else for me

Kevzar, it's not all about the rubber. First of all, you should have a trained wrist. Even if he has the spinniest rubber in the world, he couldn't perform that serve without the proper wrist movement.

Pnachtwey · Jun 19, 2015

StuartMarquis said:
Why would you not serve like that during match-play if you can perform the serve? It looks pretty much unreturnable so why not use it?

The ball bounces too high if the second bounce can get the ball over the net. A good player would flick it back.

I can make that serve but I don't in a match for the reason stated and also I miss the ball too many times when I try to brush so thinly. When I get tired my timing goes home before I do.

TTFrenzy · Jun 19, 2015

GiorgosTT said:
I agree that the first couple serves are too high, and therefore easily returnable. But guys, come on, the last two serves are unreturnable and would be straight winners even against the greatest players. There is simply nothing you can do! The ball bounces 1-2cm from the net and goes directly to the net. If someone could produce this serve consistently, he/she would never lose a point in serve!

The point is that this has very little margin of error, as you have to place it exactly there for it to be effective. And that is the reason that noone attempts something like this in competition.

the curve of the ball and the trajectory are predictable so its still an easy serve . Even the last serves are quite high, you cannot execute a serve like that returning back and be extremely low and bounce over the net to the server's side of the table cause the ball needs to jump over net height.

I dont mean to sound mr "know it all" and brag about my self but the only difficult thing is stretching yourself in order to kill it with a smashflip

TTFrenzy · Jun 19, 2015

Tony's Table Tennis said:
Its always easier on screen - especially watching replays.
But reality in a match, it is all about reading the serves and most of the time, guessing/premeditating the serve.

The last 2 serves is more unique. Even though margin of error is high.
As it lands so close to the net, most players will struggle to reach it, yet alone get it over (before it touches the net)

Yep this serve is very easy to read and the difficulty is getting into a good position to reach a ball landing very close to the net,but still even if you cant flick it its quite high so you can use an aggressive push. To be honest I havent tried this against a good server like this japanese player, but have tried it as a "Trick" with my team mates and 8/10 times the receiver can flip it successfully.

Sometimes if the receiver does not get fast into position he flicks it straight into the net because of bad contact/timing

GiorgosTT · Jun 20, 2015

TTFrenzy said:
the curve of the ball and the trajectory are predictable so its still an easy serve . Even the last serves are quite high, you cannot execute a serve like that returning back and be extremely low and bounce over the net to the server's side of the table cause the ball needs to jump over net height.

I dont mean to sound mr "know it all" and brag about my self but the only difficult thing is stretching yourself in order to kill it with a smashflip

It seems that I failed to realise that when the ball hits the net, it is still in play, and as it jumps over net height it should be fairly simple to return it. I'm not sure if it is that easy to flip kill it there, but it sure isn't unreturnable as I originally thought!

Matt Hetherington · Jun 20, 2015

I think we will get more female viewers now hahaha

Nice vid Tony

It's a great serve to learn or just to practice to master a more effective contact and feeling for spin on the ball which in turn will help with all of your serves. He does a good job. I still like the one he does where he lands the ball on the net, that's some solid touch

Suga D · Jun 21, 2015

Matt Hetherington said:
I think we will get more female viewers now hahaha

Nice vid Tony

It's a great serve to learn or just to practice to master a more effective contact and feeling for spin on the ball which in turn will help with all of your serves. He does a good job. I still like the one he does where he lands the ball on the net, that's some solid touch

For practicing ball touch i totally agree, but in a competitive game this high bouncing serve of the OP Vid (the first post) looks a bit 'suicidal', except the ones bouncing back into the net.

PS: had to re-edit a previous made comment for being very misunderstandable

Pnachtwey · Jun 23, 2015

Tony's serve is pretty good and consistent. I think it is more effect than the ghost serve in the first video. If the ball can bounce over the net on the second bounce it is too high and can be attacked.

Better yet and hard to do. I try to back spin serve so the ball doesn't quite go off the table and then comes back to the net. The ball must have more forward speed to get to the end of the table and the ball must have more back spin to stop the forward motion and make the ball roll back to the net.

Tony's Table Tennis · Jun 23, 2015

Pnachtwey said:
Tony's serve is pretty good and consistent. I think it is more effect than the ghost serve in the first video. If the ball can bounce over the net on the second bounce it is too high and can be attacked.

Better yet and hard to do. I try to back spin serve so the ball doesn't quite go off the table and then comes back to the net. The ball must have more forward speed to get to the end of the table and the ball must have more back spin to stop the forward motion and make the ball roll back to the net.

Thanks you Pnachtwey,

Together with your comment I like to add. My favourite under spin serve is a very heavy/powerful one.
From the naked eye, it looks like one bounce and the ball will go off the table. The player tends to top spin, but then the ball dips again and touches the table - maybe 1 or 2 more time before it goes off the table. Due to the force, it can't be a ghost serve, but good enough to dip before the actual top spin shot

It is really fun to watch them miss. Feels like a strike in baseball, and an instant point to me

But again, serves is all about deception, so it got to do with how I lead up to this serve, as well as my toss.
IE, I can do this with a very high toss, and most people will think the ball is just going off the table with such toss. Or I can do this with a low toss and seem to be rushing my toss too etc.

Tinykin · Jun 24, 2015

" so it got to do with how I lead up to this serve"

Tony's so correct about this. The ghost serve or attempts have so much spin that if the opponent picks it up early he can cause much problem to the server. But say you serve 3 pendulum serves to the body then the next one is a ghost serve within 6 inches of the sideline, this is a great combination. Many times I win the point directly off the serve using this combo. It's not so much the quality of the serve but the fact that the player arrives late to the ball.

Michal_Z · Jun 24, 2015

GiorgosTT said:
I agree that the first couple serves are too high, and therefore easily returnable. But guys, come on, the last two serves are unreturnable and would be straight winners even against the greatest players. There is simply nothing you can do! The ball bounces 1-2cm from the net and goes directly to the net. If someone could produce this serve consistently, he/she would never lose a point in serve!

The point is that this has very little margin of error, as you have to place it exactly there for it to be effective. And that is the reason that noone attempts something like this in competition.

I think you are mistaken.
In fact - the net helps for the return quite a lot!
Dont forget that after hitting a net, the point is NOT WON yet..
And take a look at the ball after hitting the net:
It goes UP and towards the receiving player.
That means what?
You can return it and I would bet my paycheck that good players would return it without any real trouble.
Probably with a winner

Again - hitting the net is not winning the point, think about that first

.. edit - oh, I see you already found that out in later posts, oki

Super Ghost Serve by Japanese player!

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