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    1. Top | #21
      Der_Echte is offline
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      If I treated my child successfully like this and returned him/her to school, I would be accused of criminal wrong-doing in my country by the school district attorney. Even if my approach to healing and curing the problem was effective and safe.

      This is the degree to which over 99% percent (my own estimation and I believe it to be conservative number) has been wrongly educated and influenced by media and professionals over time in my country.

      That is why I applaud Dan and the OP (and esteemed new trouble maker M-Cai !!) for thinking the way they do and why I went into long explanations to support that way of thinking.
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    2. Top | #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      And for those interested: what I meant by ramp skater:

      Attachment 7636

      That is me, circa 1995 just before I went to the circus.
      That is why Carl is Upside Down so much...

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    4. Top | #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte View Post
      That is why Carl is Upside Down so much...
      Well, UpSideDownCarl might be because of this as well:

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      But really, it is that way of thinking that sees things from the other side. Like, what I explained in the idea of the stages you need to do to HEAL an injury. Most people don't think from the perspective of how to get the body to do the healing, how you set the circumstances up to let the body do its thing. Too often people think there has to be a pill and a cure without wanting to think of what they can do to stop causing the problem. So, really, I think I am RightSideUpCarl. But it is UpSideDown from how everyone else seems to think.

      In my field, I am often a lone voice of sanity in sea of fools who seem to tell you you have to keep doing what caused your injury to get better. One time I told a friend who was a Yoga Teacher (that is sort of what I do but I am a renegade), I told her she had to stop doing ______(blank) to let her body heal. She had a sacrum injury--a hyper-mobility of her sacrum--from--go figure, with yoga--stretching too much and going too far. So I told her she had to consciously go significantly less far in forward-bending, back-bending, side-leans, twists and anything that stretched her hips. Now she was already flexible. And her goal in her practice was to have no joints and no bony restrictions so her body could move like a rubber replica. The problem was, she had bones and joints and she was damaging them by going to far and pushing too hard to go even farther.

      Several years later she admitted to me that what I told her made her mad and upset for a few years but then things go so bad that she had to listen to me. She had no choice. I was the only one who had turned things UpSideDown and given her the real information. All the rest of her yoga teacher friends who thought they knew what they were doing kept telling her to stretch it out more. That she would break down the restrictions that were holding her back.

      So, from this perspective of why I am UpSideDownCarl, and from how Der_Echte sees things from his own unique perspective and can find alternative avenues for helping uncover his body's own healing potential, PERHAPS, Der_Echte is really UpSideDownDer_Echte!!!!!

      hahahahaha

      By the way, I say I teach yoga because it is easier than explaining what I really do. And people wouldn't understand it or find me if I said I did what I really do. What I do is a creative approach to human alignment and helping people with whatever is going on with them whether that is physical conditions or mental baggage.

      One of my clients has a back problem. Whenever I work with him, if his back is bothering him at the beginning, it is not at the end. But one day, a few weeks after I started working with him, I asked him if he had any idea what he does in his life that might cause it. He said: "Nope! Sometimes it is fine and then one day I just wake up and it is bad again." So I asked him a bunch of questions about how he sleeps and gave him a homework assignment of trying to sleep on one side, the other side, stomach and back and to see how each felt to HIS BACK. He of course ignored me until a few months later he was on a trip and his back got bad enough that he couldn't ignore that his favorite sleeping position was hurting his back. Now he doesn't sleep that way anymore and has not had any back problems since he switched how he was sleeping. That is really what I do. But I just present the information and hope that the people can put the pieces together because it means more that way.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 07-10-2015 at 04:43 PM.
      Spin Everything.

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    6. Top | #24
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      So, acupuncture could be part of regimen to help a TT shoulder injury depending on what the injury is. But you may have to lay off from TT for a while while doing it, if it is helping.

      It is worth noting that western medicine is good at some things. One of them is diagnosing a problem. For problems that are harder to figure out they have tests that can sometimes help figure out the actual issue. But, not always.

      And where western medicine falls short, as Der_Echte has eloquently addressed, is their recommendations for treatment are not always in the best interest of the patient, but are always in the best interest of the hospitals, the doctors and more importantly, the pharmaceutical companies. It is unfortunately about a merry-go-round of money for them and of bankruptcy for any but the wealthy.

    7. Top | #25
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      I am proud to be considered Upside Down and Backwards.

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    9. Top | #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte View Post
      I am proud to be considered Upside Down and Backwards.
      Especially when UpSideDown and BackWards from everyone else is really RightSideUp and ForWards for real.

    10. Top | #27
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      wow thanks guys for the input I learned a lot today ^.^
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    12. Top | #28
      amekun is offline
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      Just want to let everyone know
      i just had my 1st acupuncture session 3 days ago
      it was nerve wrecking T.T

      my shoulder and knees are doing quite well
      light exercises for it as well

    13. Top | #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by amekun View Post
      it was nerve wrecking T.T
      Can you explain what that means? I am not quite sure.

      Hope the acupuncture sessions help.


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    14. Top | #30
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      I think the ( T.T ) is kind like a text version of smiling and he is being slightly sarcastic and wry. Nerve Wrecking and sticking needles next to nerves... think it is a play on the words and subtle funny.

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    16. Top | #31
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      Drugs are basically Herbs! Feel this is a Thread for the older folks.

    17. Top | #32
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      Herbs and modern drugs are SO DIFFERENT in composition and concept. I will post one article to illustrate.

      Herbs (if you know them and whee to find them) are natural, effective for the right things, and are almost free.

      Modern medicine is centered around a diagnosis that costs a lot of money and involves the prescription of of moderately or insanely expensive drugs that one is supposed to take for LIFE, then take moar drugs to counter the side effects and we could argue the effectiveness of drugs healing and curing.

      Look at treatment for Hepatitis in modern medicine, the push over the last 15yrs plus is for drugs that cost upwards of $1000 USD for ONE pill. All the while, it has been known that taking Vitamin C to saturation levels for a spell can reverse and cure the thing... and Vitamin C costs very little.

      Look at the articles for..

      Modern recommendations for Hep C... http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-part-one.aspx http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...er-drug-prices http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...er-drug-prices

      And for vita C treatment... http://www.doctoryourself.com/hepatitis.html http://www.doctoryourself.com/hepatitis.html

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    19. Top | #33
      amekun is offline
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      [QUOTE=UpSideDownCarl;116650]Can you explain what that means? I am not quite sure.

      Hope the acupuncture sessions help.




      (T.T) is an emoticon kinda like a

      but if thats not what your looking for here is what happened to me:

      Went inside to the acupuncture place. Filled out a form, what type of acupuncture that i wanted(Pain and sports rehab, General health etc..) i went for the pain&sports rehab. It went to a Q&A portion, he touched my shoulder and knee checking my different muscles, he puts pressure and i said "Ouch". he asked me if i play table tennis and said yes. i asked him how did he know, he mentioned that certain muscles are developed and such, my side muscles forgot the muscle terms were good. and then he asked me to take off my top and pants, laid over the massage area. Took an alcohol pad and wiped the target areas. he took out the needles, packed and sterile, opened it in front of me. there was a lot of needles,12 on my shoulder, 2 near the backside of my elbow, and 8 on my knee(If memory serves me correctly). He then mentions muscles names that are connected to the problem area and he took those needle and hammers them in with his finger. For every muscle name, one needle. It went like, (Muscle name, insert needle, pak pak pak pak, then twists them, if i cringe in pain he stops). His quickness in doing acupuncture is what made me nervous since its my first time. it didnt even take him long to put all the needles in. The needles are like a hair strand. very thin. No blood in insertion. If i were to describe the needles after insertion, it would be like, after the skin layer there is a spike inside for the muscle, if you move you would feel your muscles getting poked.(Idk if that made any sense but that is how i felt). The needles are in place, then he brings a heater and aims it at the problem areas to improve circulation. after every 5-10 minutes, he would go back and twists all the needles again. after 40 minutes has passed, he took an alcohol pad and started removing the needles. Wiped the area again with the alcohol pad. and after that he massaged the areas connected to the muscle that causes me pain. I believe its like B muscle hurts, A and C are connected and a part of B, he would massage A and C to loosen up B making it less tense and relaxed. and the last 10 minutes, he gave me exercises that would help improve my shoulders and knees. my problem with my shoulder is a minor front ligament(idk the name).

      Then Before i left i saw 2 degrees, BS in Chinese Acupuncture, and Masters(If memory serves me correctly but i do remember seeing 2 degrees) in Physiology.



      well thats how it went for me.

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    21. Top | #34
      amekun is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte View Post
      I think the ( T.T ) is kind like a text version of smiling and he is being slightly sarcastic and wry. Nerve Wrecking and sticking needles next to nerves... think it is a play on the words and subtle funny.
      you saw right through me

      just added a pun in there

      The (T.T) means its a Crying emoticon

    22. Top | #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by amekun View Post
      (T.T) is an emoticon kinda like a
      Okay. When Der_Echte said that it made me understand. But having you confirm that he was correct helps. Thanks.

      Quote Originally Posted by amekun View Post
      well thats how it went for me.
      It actually sounds like you had a good acupuncturist. Do you feel it helped at all yet?


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    23. Top | #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      Okay. When Der_Echte said that it made me understand. But having you confirm that he was correct helps. Thanks.



      It actually sounds like you had a good acupuncturist. Do you feel it helped at all yet?

      Imo, yes it did. i felt my shoulder is all loose and does not tense up as much anymore. My knee feels great, i can finally get down low and bend(With knee support brace). I used to feel pain when i bend even with taping or Knee support.i did the exercises before and after TT.

    24. Top | #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by amekun View Post
      Imo, yes it did. i felt my shoulder is all loose and does not tense up as much anymore. My knee feels great, i can finally get down low and bend(With knee support brace). I used to feel pain when i bend even with taping or Knee support.i did the exercises before and after TT.
      Well that is a pretty good result for one session. That is great. Glad to hear it.

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    26. Top | #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      One thing you should know with stuff like acupuncture, you may also have to figure out what action is causing the injury and lay off it for a couple of weeks or even a couple of months while you are doing the treatment. Like, what Dan is describing, how things felt better and then got worse, the acupuncture removed the symptoms for him, but he kept doing what was causing the problem so the symptoms came back and as he continued doing a treatment that allowed him to continue doing the actions that were causing the problem, the condition moved from the initial stage (acute) to a long term stage (chronic) and slowly, the body's pain response got more prevalent and probably the injury also progressed.

      If Dan had taken a few months off training, did the acupuncture till he was pain free and then did physical therapy for about 6-8 weeks without doing TT, he might have been able to go back with a complete recovery and the injury may have not bothered him again.

      But he may have also re-injured the area 6 months to 4 years down the line.

      In any case, part of the point is, you have to stop doing what is causing the injury and do the things that will help the body heal the injured area.

      A comedy example/analogy: if you keep taking painkiller for a head pain, but keep banging your head against a wall, causing the head pain, the head pain will continue and progress.

      With back or shoulder pain, the first issue is reducing the pain. The second issue is stretching things that are tight and contributing to the pain, strengthening things that are weak and causing you to do a movement in a way where damage is occurring. The third thing is your body needs TIME to heal.

      Some injuries will get better with just these three. But there are two more stages for real, full recovery.

      Usually in a sports related injury that is in a joint from repetitive use, the progression goes like this. The way the action is being done (the mechanics) are causing one side of the joint to work more and get tighter. Two results are that the other side of the joint, works less and gets weaker. This causes weight to transfer through the joint, in a non-centered way. For instance, it is common for certain actions to cause the outer thigh near the knee joint to be stronger and tighter and the inner thigh to get weaker and then stretch and be too long as the stronger-tighter outer part of the knee pulls outward. Then when you are walking you will end up bearing weight on the lateral condyle of the knee, which causes a spiraling feedback loop that causes the outer quad (lateral aspect of the knee) to tighten more, the inner quad (medial aspect of the knee) to get pulled and stretched, and eventually that pulls your kneecap laterally and stops it from tracking properly.

      In any case, you generally want a joint to bear weight through the center of the joint so the force is dispersed more evenly through the joint during the movement. That stuff I was describing will also cause the tighter side of the joint to wear faster.

      So what is all this info about???? The last two parts of healing a sports injury should be:

      1) strengthening the longer weaker side and stretching the shorter tighter side (most often the realm of physical therapy).

      2) improving the mechanics so that you don't get into that bad feedback loop after the injury FEELS like it is better (neuromuscular re-patterning)

      Again to list the priorities:

      1) removal of pain.

      2) removal of the actions that are causing the problem.

      3) time to heal

      4) exercises and treatment that will strengthen the weak side of the joint and lengthen the stronger, tighter side. (This is often what physical therapy will confine itself to. Not always. A good physical therapist will get a person to and do all 5 stages of recovery).

      5) neuromuscular re-patterning: in English, improving the biomechanics of movement so that weight transfers through the center of the joint in the specific movement that is causing the trauma to the joint so you don't re-injure the affected area.

      The fifth part is the most difficult one and is most commonly left out (unfortunately). Common ways of doing the forth stage would include identifying movements causing the problem (ideally ALL OF THEM) duplicating simulations of the movement until the improved biomechanics are patterned into muscle memory. And then, slowly re-establishing the movement in the actual situation, slowly, ensuring that the dysfunctional movement pattern does not slip back in, and then building up so the person can do the action at full speed (for the particular sport) without reverting back to the previous dysfunctional movement patter. Once the correct biomechanics are established into muscle memory, that injury usually should not recur.

      This would be more important for a more serious injury like Dan's than for a less serious injury, but ideally, those five steps will allow your body to do the healing and not re aggravate the injury.


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      That's very interesting, I have some doubts, can kinesiologist do the re patterning ? Physio therapist here is difficult to find, and is it an alternative to recover go to the gym? To strengthen the muscles and joints I mean.
      I had an injury when I was working student in my shoulder because over training without warm, the coach ever told us let's warm ,
      So I spent 3 weeks with an intense pain in my arm, shoulder, back and chest, I didn't like to take any kind of pills or analgesic, so was hard, but nowadays my joints sound, when I'm stretching.

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