What are the plies of my blade made of?

Suga D · Aug 27, 2015

Hello Everybody,

does anybody know what the plies of my blade are made of? It's a nittaku shake carbon offense from the mid eighties.
As far as i've been told it's got two thin hinoki plies on the outside and one thick ply in the middle of two thin carbon layers. What is that thick ply? It looks a bit like Kiri, but that's just a guess. Couldn't find anything on the web... :/

I would just buy a new one, but Nittaku has stopped producin' them years ago and there are just very few sold online. Now i know a blade maker that could rebuild it for me, but we just couldn't figure that middle ply. Maybe anyone here's got an Idea?

BeGo · Aug 28, 2015

Please include the blade section side view also, with tape off.

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Suga D · Aug 28, 2015

Thanks BeGo. I will do so this evening after returning from work.

UpSideDownCarl · Aug 28, 2015

It does look like the center ply could be Hinoki too but seeing the plies from the side of the racket and from the blade tip would actually help.

Suga D · Aug 28, 2015

Thanks Carl. Good thing i've asked and not just let the blade be made with a Kiri ply and then wondering how come the blade plays so differently...

Thanks again. I'll try to post it this evening.

Der_Echte · Aug 28, 2015

In the Skildkrot 900 review I posted to OOAK you can see we invented a material called FASTIDIUM... it is supposed to be pretty fast.

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UpSideDownCarl · Aug 28, 2015

Suga D said:
Thanks Carl. Good thing i've asked and not just let the blade be made with a Kiri ply and then wondering how come the blade plays so differently...
Thanks again. I'll try to post it this evening.

An idea for you, you could have a look at those Darker Hinoki with Carbon blades. Those are pretty darn good. I think the thing that makes a blade like this unique is the age and the Hinoki. It is hard to get good Hinoki. Darker seems to use better quality Hinoki than anyone else.

Suga D · Aug 29, 2015

Well, there you are. I hope the quality is high enough.
Carl could be right though, it could also be Hinoki...

Suga D · Aug 29, 2015

UpSideDownCarl said:
An idea for you, you could have a look at those Darker Hinoki with Carbon blades. Those are pretty darn good. I think the thing that makes a blade like this unique is the age and the Hinoki. It is hard to get good Hinoki. Darker seems to use better quality Hinoki than anyone else.

That sounds pretty interesting, and i'll definitely gonna take a look at that, but the thing is, i played my best season with THIS blade, about 23 years ago and won against players that were ranked much higher than me and i just got back at it a couple of weeks ago. So there is a kind of 'magic' about this blade (to me). It's like a Hattori Hanzo sword (to me). I think you can understand this.

Suga D · Aug 29, 2015

Der_Echte said:
In the Skildkrot 900 review I posted to OOAK you can see we invented a material called FASTIDIUM... it is supposed to be pretty fast.

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Fastidium....

Hahaha, that's a good one.

Die you mean this right here?
http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5437
Great read

Thanks man.

BeGo · Aug 29, 2015

Looking at the photo, looks like the wood is same, the inner and the outer one

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Suga D · Aug 29, 2015

Thanks BeGo. This was also my last impression. Hmmmh.

Tinykin · Aug 29, 2015

It's very diffuicult to replicate any blade especially an old one which has been through numerous gluings, been overheated, frozen etc. But you can build or buy a blade with similar characteristics even with different type woods. So don't be too disappointed if the new one is not exactly the same.

UpSideDownCarl · Aug 29, 2015

Can you take one more photo? The tip of the blade, the farthest point from the handle. From the side, I knew you would not be able to see the grain because the grain runs parallel to the side. But on the bottom of the handle you can see the plies and you should be able to see them from the tip. If I see that I will have a better idea if it is Hinoki.

I totally get what you are talking about. It would be cool if you had a backup of the same thing. Because the wood you get to make a new one will not probably not be quite the same.

Suga D · Aug 30, 2015

Sorry for the delay. Hope this one's better.

Suga D · Aug 31, 2015

UpSideDownCarl said:
I totally get what you are talking about. It would be cool if you had a backup of the same thing. Because the wood you get to make a new one will not probably not be quite the same.

Absolutely. That's why i was thinkin' of getting a custom made. Or i try to get my hands on another one from some auction site. But they are really rare.
Plus, like Tinykin mentioned,

Tinykin said:
So don't be too disappointed if the new one is not exactly the same.

Even a same blade could feel different. But then again, if i could get used to that Dotec (which feels like a woodblock compared to the NSO) then switching to a 'new' NSO shouldn't bring too big technicalwise adjustments.
But i think a custom made is gonna be cheaper. And that Darker you wrote about sounds interesting as well...

A custom made is still the most promising from my point of view. The prices for NSO are absolutely ridiculous... :-/

UpSideDownCarl · Aug 31, 2015

Here is the actual question with this: how much experience making Hinoki+Carbon blades does the guy you will have make the custom blade? Because, if the answer is, "Not a lot," then a blade from Darker that has Carbon and Hinoki and is in the same speed category is more likely to play like your Nittaku blade than the custom.

However, if you are talking about someone who makes a lot of Hinoki blades and has experience with custom making blades trying to duplicate something like yours, then go for it. And a real hand made blade maker who knows how to duplicate an old blade and make a knew one that is as close as you could get to the original will be able to figure out what plies are in that blade.

But, from the photos the middle ply looks like Hinoki.

BeGo · Aug 31, 2015

this remind me to Anna Blade that Chtchetinine ever used.

http://tt.arbinada.com/node/296

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UpSideDownCarl · Aug 31, 2015

An important detail in what I was saying is that, if you do get someone experienced to make a "replica" of your blade, you have to have him look at your blade for plies, handle, blade face and weight.

Suga D · Aug 31, 2015

UpSideDownCarl said:
Here is the actual question with this: how much experience making Hinoki+Carbon blades does the guy you will have make the custom blade? Because, if the answer is, "Not a lot," then a blade from Darker that has Carbon and Hinoki and is in the same speed category is more likely to play like your Nittaku blade than the custom.

However, if you are talking about someone who makes a lot of Hinoki blades and has experience with custom making blades trying to duplicate something like yours, then go for it. And a real hand made blade maker who knows how to duplicate an old blade and make a knew one that is as close as you could get to the original will be able to figure out what plies are in that blade.

But, from the photos the middle ply looks like Hinoki.

Thanks a lot, Carl. Very important to know. And it made me curious, so i had a talk with the guy. (The blade maker)

And now guess what: he has little to no experience with Hinoki. He said that he used it only a couple of times, cause it would be very hard to get some good Hinoki over here. That's why he uses spruce a lot, and then added that spruce was like the 'european-hinoki'.

That first sounded like an excuse of a business man, that wants to stay in business no matter what. So we ended our conversation and i told him i've gotta think about it and gonna get back at him. I then did a little Google check about spruce and actually even more people wrote quite positive about it....
But then again either get a custom made blade, made of a material that isn't my first choice or get a Hinoki carbon blade from another brand, which also wouldn't be my first choice...
That NSO is a real masterpiece. When i said Hattori Hanzo i didn't exaggerate. It's quite filigree and an absolut featherweight. It only weighs about 77 grams... (How could Nittaku only stop producin' ''em)

So i was about to reconsider my plans back to the previous and probably just gonna try to get another NSO (if it's not too pricey)

Boy, what a quest.

What are the plies of my blade made of?

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