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    1. Top | #1
      NextLevel is offline
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      TTEdge Executing Table Tennis Shots Series!

      This will be a series of videos critiquing the shots of TTEdge members who have videos of shots that Brett wants to analyze and correct.

      Please feel free to compliment or rip apart my technique - this is the one shot in my game I need to get better. As someone said on another thread, I have "stagnated" at 1950-2050 for the last eight months (seriously, I am happy with my play - I just want your help to get better) and need to fix this as one of my issues (the other issue, well, that will take a lifetime to fix).

      Last edited by NextLevel; 09-12-2015 at 01:32 AM.
      Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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    3. Top | #2
      UpSideDownCarl is offline
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      Good video. Counter Loop is not an easy shot. Brett gives great information on the technique as well. Changing and refining technique is not easy, especially as an adult learning the sport.


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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 09-15-2015 at 06:00 AM.
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    5. Top | #3
      Tinykin is offline
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      I don't know your playing schedule but what do you mean by stagnating?
      I say this as I suspect that your playing standard and/or knowledge of the game may be improving but due to the vagaries of the tournament system this improvement may not show in your ratings.
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    7. Top | #4
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tinykin View Post
      I don't know your playing schedule but what do you mean by stagnating?
      I say this as I suspect that your playing standard and/or knowledge of the game may be improving but due to the vagaries of the tournament system this improvement may not show in your ratings.
      It was a joke based on an argument that I had with a guy at myTT. Seriously, even if my rating never goes back over 2000, I have achieved just about everything I ever wanted to as a TT player so anything now is icing on the cake.

      But now, this counterlooping thing need to be fixed, I tell you. I am going to counterloop close to the table with correct technique (well correct older guy technique - LOL).
      Last edited by NextLevel; 09-12-2015 at 01:30 AM.

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    9. Top | #5
      Brett Clarke is offline
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      This video is an analysis of Andy's forehand topspin. I believe Andy has timing issues on his forehand which are very common with learning adults.

      Last edited by Brett Clarke; 09-13-2015 at 12:11 PM.
      Table Tennis Videos by Brett Clarke

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    11. Top | #6
      NextLevel is offline
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      Brett, on TTEdge in the LTT series, after diagnosing your subject's stroke, you usually prescribe an action plan to fix it. While I know this series is more focused on looking at shots, is there any action plan you would prescribe here for Andy?

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    13. Top | #7
      Der_Echte is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      It was a joke based on an argument that I had with a guy at myTT. Seriously, even if my rating never goes back over 2000, I have achieved just about everything I ever wanted to as a TT player so anything now is icing on the cake.

      But now, this counterlooping thing need to be fixed, I tell you. I am going to counterloop close to the table with correct technique (well correct older guy technique - LOL).
      NL has a great attitude and keeps it realistic. I like that a lot.

      In our match, NL's attempts to finish the point vs my heavy topspins went pretty much like the vid analysis Brett did.

      There are a lot of little things NL does to reach his level that are both easily seen on vids and not so easy to see.

      If a pro analyzes a vid of MY FH looping technique, I hope he or she isn't trying to swallow a mouthful of peanuts or drink a huge chug of beer... if he or she did that at exactly the WRONG moment, it would be epic funny.

      When I was a recreational player, I thought I would be content being a bad-azz 1750-1800 level player. I thought that class of player is tourney tough... and they are indeed, but once I got to that level, it wasn't enough and I wasn't content.

      I am prolly at the magic 2000 level, give or take 50 on a given day, but the one tourney I did since healing the shoulder injury and regular practice had only a few players in the range to gain points. haha, if the 2300 level club owner wasn't rated at 1970s, then I prolly woulda been re-rated to upper 1900s that tourney haha. Another tourney or two would set that straight, but I will refuse to obsess over my rating like a lot of Americans. I know my playing level, a lot of the forum members know it by direct observation or belief from them, so I'm not really worried about having to prove something.

      I enjoy the sport a whole heap, but I also am severely disappointed when I miss shots I should make. What a paradox.

      NL isn't afraid to expose himself to criticism posting hiz vid, hundreds of them.
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    15. Top | #8
      anchorschmidt is offline
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      Nothing to add to Brett Clark's analysis except that you should be willing to lose more games for a while without going back to your initial technique. It pays off in the long run though

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    17. Top | #9
      Brett Clarke is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Brett, on TTEdge in the LTT series, after diagnosing your subject's stroke, you usually prescribe an action plan to fix it. While I know this series is more focused on looking at shots, is there any action plan you would prescribe here for Andy?
      Yes, I'm going to talk to Andy about where we are heading. I will either add him to the LTT series on ttEDGE or I'll start a new series with him. The Executing Table Tennis Shots series is just to look at individual shots and discuss the pros and cons.

      Cheers, Brett

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    19. Top | #10
      UpSideDownCarl is offline
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      TTEdge Executing Table Tennis Shots Series!

      It is pretty good that Andy has started working with you in this way. That is really cool.


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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 09-15-2015 at 06:00 AM.

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    21. Top | #11
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by anchorschmidt View Post
      Nothing to add to Brett Clark's analysis except that you should be willing to lose more games for a while without going back to your initial technique. It pays off in the long run though
      Since you are all my buddies on this website, let me give you a fuller explanation of what happened in that match and my technique.

      As many of you know, I have bad knees and rheumatoid arthritis as separate, co-incidental and co-operatively destructive phenomena. My style of play was more influenced by my health back then when I started - I was largely a blocker who tried to avoid moving unless necessary as training hard always hurt my knees. My first coach was a 2300+ chopper and we hit so much that I developed a decent exchange game and I also picked up his heavy push. However, I never learned to loop properly or attack backspin though I had a good hitting game for my level.

      My current coach also coaches my opponent in that video - of course, being younger and fitter, my opponent has gotten better quicker. My current coach places an emphasis on aggressive serve return and third ball and leaving good defense as your last resort when your opponent has too many answers to your offense. Ultimately, he wants you to be able to attack but to also be able to adapt to what our opponent does not like.

      So to cut a long story short, I have played my opponent for over 3 years in club matches and tournament matches. He has one of the best slow topspin loops on the forehand in my club and in general beats choppers easily. In the beginning, when he was younger, I used to be able to block those loops over the table. But of course, as the young get older and stronger and better and faster, the spin is more and the timing is riskier, and my knees don't help me get there on time.

      The good thing is that it is because of that opponent and the other junior coached by my coach that I have had good high level attackers in my club to play with. When Carl wonders where my fast pace of play comes from when you don't put pressure on me in serve and receive comes from, it is because those kids are trained to annihilate you if you don't put pressure so most adults compared to them seem slow.

      But the kids are now counterlooping my opening loops and I still struggle to do the same to theirs. I push well sometimes, and I get the slow HIGH opener. And usually, I counterloop this off the table. In fact this video is one of the few moments I did not, So why did I play this particular shot?

      Well, I saw Matt Hetherington play my opponent at another venue. And I saw Matt Hetherington do this kind of shot against the slow spinny loop. My guess is that Matt's shot probably used more sidespin, which I have avoided for a particular reason not worth delving into. But I also noticed that the particular loop that my opponent did in the above video was relatively weak compared to his usual offerings so I took a confident crack and got lucky.

      The technique that Brett showed in the video is what I would try if the ball was deep and relatively low but in my personal practice, I have found both shots effective and consistent, but it is virtually impossible to use Brett's technique in the original video on a ball as high as the one in the video unless you take it early over the table. So Brett posted a video today showing the techniques used for high balls. Some of you may find it helpful.




      Hope this helps. I will of course work to be consistent and use the best techniques as I can.

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    23. Top | #12
      NextLevel is offline
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      BTW, last off-topic post - today, I told my first coach that I beat Rich DeWitt and he walked over and shook my hand with congratulations. Just to give the uninitiated an idea of who Rich is in US TT circles.

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    25. Top | #13
      UpSideDownCarl is offline
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      That backhand loop in the video, the second loop you try to counter, the kid holds that ball on the racket a long time and it has a lot of spin. Not an easy shot to counter with that much force. Good info.


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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 09-15-2015 at 05:59 AM.

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    27. Top | #14
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      That backhand loop in the video, the second loop you try to counter, the kid holds that ball on the racket a long time and it has a lot of spin. Not an easy shot to counter with that much force. Good info.


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      Yes, but the ball is high. In fact, this brings back memories of one of my favorite shots and celebrations.


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    29. Top | #15
      Der_Echte is offline
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      As discussed elsewhere, defeating Rich in a match where Rich is hunting for the Championship title is one tough proposal for many offensive players. Unless Rich has a bad day (and he rarely has one) you earn every point you get (which is usually few). Throwing out a number like USATT 2300-2350 as the usual playing level required to even have an EVEN CHANCE vs Rich is meaning less to non-USA players, lets say you would need to be Ranked around 150-200 in England to have a small expectation to defeat Rich.

      EDIT just for the LULZ and because we can again (Thanks to Dan):

      Next Level is a FULL 2 levels of TT rating below Rich... and that is just official rating. Rich, once he has advanced out of Round Robin group into single elimination knockout (or when he needs a victory to advance out of group stage) plays at 2300-2350 level and sometimes higher.

      Next Level is floating between 1950-2050 level officially, and his playing level is pretty close to that. He does enough tourneys frequently enough to keep the rating relative close to his playing level.

      Let's think about this one. Rich is playing at a level where he could spot a player of Next Level's playing level 3 points and win comfortably... and in a sanctioned tourney he defeats Rich. That is remarkable.
      Last edited by Der_Echte; 09-14-2015 at 03:04 PM.

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    31. Top | #16
      UpSideDownCarl is offline
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      Der_Echte is right. I have watched Rich beat 2500 players for money before when he was on.

      And I remember NextLevel saying he matches up well against Rich. Now we know that is not just talk.

      That is really a big win.


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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 09-15-2015 at 05:59 AM.

    32. Top | #17
      AndyCouchman is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brett Clarke View Post
      This video is an analysis of Andy's forehand topspin. I believe Andy has timing issues on his forehand which are very common with learning adults.

      Thanks for all your Brett, Laj & Carl.
      Its very much appeciated
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    33. Top | #18
      NextLevel is offline
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      Andy,

      Saw your latest lesson and I was very impressed by the effects of the shadow training so far on your ease of movement - still work to go but I saw signs of progress. You're actually going to convince me to do more shadow training myself at this rate - I might stay off the table for a while to get it done when I decide to commit.

    34. Top | #19
      UpSideDownCarl is offline
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      I have to say, a guy who taught me a bit several years ago (Alex Perez), the first time I hit with him, (I was doing an exchange where I gave him some yoga/bodywork sessions for his back and he gave me some TT lessons), before my first lesson, he watched me play then hit with me for 5 min and told me: "your table tennis has more wrong with it than my back! Here I want you to do this!" And he took me in front of a mirror and worked with me until I could do a decent FH and BH shadow stroke in front of the mirror. Then he told me to practice a few thousand strokes a day every day till my first lesson with him. When I did the lesson he knew that I had done what he asked because my stroke was already much improved.

      I still do shadow strokes and footwork in front of a mirror. I do them because I like to. But they definitely help me change some of those bad habits that are really hard to change.

      And at this point I really do them because I enjoy doing them.

      I don't know if my feet would ever have been able to move even close to how they do without shadow training.

      At first it felt really weird to reset, move/backswing, plant stroke (with body in the stroke). The coordination was too hard. But at a certain point I even got half decent at doing it left handed.

      Mixing shadow stroke/footwork drills with footwork ladder drills, treadmill, push-ups and ab work is my favorite way to cycle through different exercises in a workout. And it is all totally functional for improving my table tennis skills. But I am really having fun with the shadow drills at this point rather than doing them for anything else.

      I got a lot of ideas from this video and just translated them to TT.



      It really helps my stamina and cardio while playing. And anything that makes workouts more fun and more like TT, I like. Especially if they also help parts of my game improve.


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    36. Top | #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Andy,

      Saw your latest lesson and I was very impressed by the effects of the shadow training so far on your ease of movement - still work to go but I saw signs of progress. You're actually going to convince me to do more shadow training myself at this rate - I might stay off the table for a while to get it done when I decide to commit.
      Hi allYes thank you
      I think the shadow training is very useful and helps a great deal.
      Much as it makes Suzanne laugh, I have cheap bats in the kitchen lounge, and bathroom.
      So just have a few strokes when I'm in each room....but it all adds up!
      I really believe in the Chinese training philosophy of groove the stroke...again again and again until there's only one stroke in the muscle memory.
      Apologies if I'm repeating myself but it goes back before flying when I was a fanatical golfer from the age of 6. I used to stand posing at various stages in the swing, getting the feeling of each stage.
      I would get my dad to buy loads of Polaroid instant films to take hundreds of shots as my swing developed. I was very determined to have a technically perfect swing.
      I was a scratch player at 12 and improved to +2 by 14, at the time one of only 12, + handicap players in the UK! A great deal due to my version of shadow training
      Tomorrow I've one hour lesson with Amila then training with Anthony


      Yes I did notice the swinging across my body so tomorrow when we do topspin I'll work on slowing it down. I've messaged him to ask to look at long slow looping topspin shots

      Andy
      Last edited by AndyCouchman; 09-16-2015 at 12:58 AM.

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