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  1. aerial is offline
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    #21
    thinking back to times when I used a robot to drill my strokes, I remember being extremely sore and tired from drilling my stroke against long back spin, but for hitting against long topspin, it seemed effortless. I think the real reasoning behind this is I couldn't really take shortcuts for the backspin, I had to use the body and really lift and go forward whereas for topspin I'm guessing I didn't even loop, probably ended up driving the ball or even flat hitting instead of trying to spin it

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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by aerial
    thinking back to times when I used a robot to drill my strokes, I remember being extremely sore and tired from drilling my stroke against long back spin, but for hitting against long topspin, it seemed effortless. I think the real reasoning behind this is I couldn't really take shortcuts for the backspin, I had to use the body and really lift and go forward whereas for topspin I'm guessing I didn't even loop, probably ended up driving the ball or even flat hitting instead of trying to spin it
    You're catching on fast.

    I have told the story a few times now, but when I was 1700 and stagnating for about 5-6 months with up and down results, I had just lost to a guy 0-3, 0-11 in the 3rd and I was mildly depressed going home. I asked my coach and practice partners what I needed to do and they told me that I didn't spin the ball. And I thought I did and protested. We have an inside joke in my club where someone says, "You don't spin the ball..." and one of my partners responds , "But I do spin the ball!" and everyone laughs because we remember that day.

    My loop after that day still had technical issues but one thing I did try to do was spin more. And it showed up pretty quickly vs. backspin and topspin, but my technical issues capped my ability to counterspin vs topspin. That's why the fix I am telling you to make is a big deal.

    That said, with proper timing on the stroke, your athleticism should make looping any ball fairly easy. You just have to learn to do it.
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    #23
    so what's your usatt rating aerial?

  4. aerial is offline
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    #24
    1400 something

    am I the best 1400 something rated player you know or what?

    edit: excluding all the underrated california juniors of course...
    Last edited by aerial; 10-21-2015 at 07:17 PM.

  5. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #25

    Help make aerial a better player

    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    You just have to learn to do it.
    In aerial's case, it may not even be that he needs to learn to do it. It may be that he has to practice doing what he kind of, sort of, almost knows how to do already but just isn't comfortable doing it because he doesn't practice it. Could be.

    Quote Originally Posted by aerial
    am I the best 1400 something rated player you know or what?
    Nah. You are not alone. There are lots of players who have some skills that make them look good when playing but don't have all of the pieces of the puzzle to put it all together. When that happens and you put things together, your level will go up pretty decently.

    I have a friend who is an ex-pro tennis player who can rally topspin to topspin with 2300 level players and play on par with them but he won't practice serve and receive and he totally sucks at it. If he plays an 1800 level player and can get past, just the serve, there is no way they can beat him. He doesn't like playing pips but I forced him to learn and understand how they work. His actual rating is old. It is in the 1400s. He would probably be in the 1700s now. But that is just because I made him learn enough to get most Under 1800 serves back. And even if he gives the a shitty high ball and they open, an 1800 opening is usually not good enough to take control of the point on him. And his serves are worse than his receive of serve at this point.

    But if he could play the first 3 balls, whether serving or receiving at an 1800 level he would probably be 2100!!!!!! Oh, also, fast serves do not work on him. That is suicide. He can read the spin on fast serves because the pace allows him to read the spin. Not the case with the slow, short serves. And he definitely hits harder than anyone (with his forehand) with amazing consistency and A LOT of spin.

    I watched a guy who is 2500 serve fast serve after fast serve to him and he got them all back with no problem. I had trouble getting back 2 in 10 and my returns were not good.

    Then, if I serve slow, short serves and I can make him look like a fish out of water. His serve and receive skills probably are about 1300 as long as the opponent's serves are short.


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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 10-21-2015 at 11:02 PM.
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    #26
    damn, I just wanted to be the best of the other end of the spectrum and you had to take that away from me too huh? :-P

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  7. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by aerial
    damn, I just wanted to be the best of the other end of the spectrum and you had to take that away from me too huh? :-P
    Hahahahaha. No, he is the best 1700 level player ever. He's no longer 1400s even if his rating is. His last tournament was years ago.

    aerial wins the prestigious award of best 1400 level player ever.


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  8. Der_Echte is offline
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    #28
    Ariel, I looked at ONLY the match you lost vs Dmitri, the last match vid you posted near the bottom of your post.

    In game 1, you lost a LOT, I mean a boatload of points because you were playing upright like a center pole. You made a few BH loops or BH topspin receives of serves, but you made errors in every kind of shot. You would make a an opening shot, finish a little off balance to the rear, take a big step to the rear, then when opponent played a softer shot to you, your shot was an error, you were too far back for the ball he gave you. You did that a LOT. Depth control of where you play killed you.

    In game 2, you seemed to make an effort to get lower, but as soon as you hit your first ball, you played upright again. Often, when you were able to see an easy chance to topspin, you would get down before you hit. You were more consistent and that won you the game.

    Ditto for game three, you did a little better staying low and not missing shots. You were confident. You missed several BH loops by trying to do a BH loop when the ball was in your FH side.

    You lost game 4 and you failed to realize was caused it and it cost you the match really. You made EIGHT errors on BH topspins of serves or long underspins you wanted to attack. WHY did you miss all of these??? If you look at teh vid again, you will see that on nearly every BH tospin you tried to make, you were too far back for the ball given and tried to loop the underspin ball when it was too far in front of you. Sometimes you were close to the table and just hit it way too far in front of you reaching too much. Sometimes you tried to BH loop a ball that was going to your FH. You cannot be 3 feet off the table or even two sometimes and expect to land a high percentage of BH openers vs those soft balls he was giving you. As the game went by, you kept trying and trying to fight through it, as you know you got a good BH opener, but you were so out of position (or too eager to get the shot off and NOT wait for the ball to come to your zone) Each time you went for such a BH, it killed you and overcame all the other good shots you made.

    You made the same mistakes in Game 5 in critical points, and the same BH mistakes from game 4, although you fought well to come back into the game. If you were able to better control your playing depth, stay lower, and hit the ball in your zone better, you would have had that game.

    Those things will come with more attention and work at it.

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    #29
    sigh, I pulled my lower back... tried too hard at a club in the binghamton area today. they had a robot setup so I tried to make my strokes against topspin better, mainly the forehand loop emphasizing going forward touching my head and the backhand unsheathing the sword. on top of that also played matches. almost got away injury free but decided to take up someone on a second match. I usually don't do that but I played so crappy against his long pips I just had to take him up on it and on the second point of my first game I pulled the low back on a forehand loop against a dead ball... and I didn't even make the lousy shot.

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    #30
    Another thing we have to consider about ariel is that where he lives, there is not exactly heavy TT action going on. There is a club (really rented out gym space where people in range of 1000-1800 playing level meetup and play matches basically) in his local area (he is in Syracuse, right?) that meets once a week on weekends for a few hours and sometimes one more day a week. Rochester is an hour or so away, With a similar place to play kinda setup, but by the time he gets there, that leaves 2 hrs or so to play.

    Not being able to play so often and having to dig into the forums for TT growing isn't mission impossible, but it isn't as optimal as if he he more frequent/better TT opportunistic near him. TIMES are changin', so maybe it shapes up for him in 2-20 years.
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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by aerial
    sigh, I pulled my lower back... tried too hard at a club in the binghamton area today. they had a robot setup so I tried to make my strokes against topspin better, mainly the forehand loop emphasizing going forward touching my head and the backhand unsheathing the sword. on top of that also played matches. almost got away injury free but decided to take up someone on a second match. I usually don't do that but I played so crappy against his long pips I just had to take him up on it and on the second point of my first game I pulled the low back on a forehand loop against a dead ball... and I didn't even make the lousy shot.
    Always be relaxed when practicing and playing - it makes your timing better and the timing makes up for what you think is the power you are getting from over-exertion. There is no need to get injured in this sport unless you refuse to listen to your body when it has pain from bad repetitive use. If we had pro level demands, the story might be slightly different, but we are not. Don't try to do more than your technique can sustain. Give it time to grow. As you slowly do strokes, your body will assign resources to build strength and timing. Rushing hurts the process by adding conflicting muscular tension.

    Feel/get better soon. Cheers.

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    Last edited by NextLevel; 10-23-2015 at 03:44 AM.
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    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

  12. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #32
    Hope the back gets better fast.


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    #33
    Ouchie

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    #34
    ariel needs to improve a lot of things.For exampe his cuts he plays wrong cuts and lifts the ball the other one can smash easily.He need a lot of work

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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by manosb
    ariel needs to improve a lot of things.For exampe his cuts he plays wrong cuts and lifts the ball the other one can smash easily.He need a lot of work
    Many people need a lot of work. If you have coached people who didn't learn as children or worked on you game as an adult learner, you will appreciate that it is not easy to learn as an adult unless someone is teaching you and knows how to teach you. Aerial doesn't live around good players so he can't learn from them easily.

    People are often very secretive and stingy with TT knowledge and some people don't teach unless they get paid. So therefore, I may mock aerial because I know his friends and where he plays, but I know that 3 years ago, I was doing what he did so I cannot be too harsh in judging him, more so because he has asked for help.
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  16. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #36

    Help make aerial a better player

    I find it hard to learn even though I am around a lot of good players. It takes a lot of hard work and and effort and you have to understand what issues to focus on first.


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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 10-26-2015 at 01:06 AM.
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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    I find it hard to learn even though I am around a lot of good players. It takes a lot of hard work and and effort and you have to understand what issues to focus on first.


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    I agree. I was framing it more in the context of manosb's post. Nice high level players, if you are around them, might come over and diagnose you. Aerial doesn't play in that kind of place.

  18. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    I agree. I was framing it more in the context of manosb's post. Nice high level players, if you are around them, might come over and diagnose you. Aerial doesn't play in that kind of place.
    Yep. I know. I was driving home the point that, even with help when you start as an adult it is an uphill battle and every little change you make there are 20 more and you end up unlearning one as you try to learn the next. So I was just supporting your statement.

    I was talking with this guy Matthew Khan who is about 2450 and we were having the discussion about how hard it is for older guys like me to learn. He was actually referring to a particular student of his and how he feels he really needs to be detail oriented and give a lot more explanation for every detail but that, he also has to really work hard to drill the new skills or the old habits come back.

    It is tough to continue improving as an adult. No question about that. And a vague comment like: "you've got a lot of things your doin' wrong, buddy!" Without much constructive advice may not be all that helpful.


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  19. aerial is offline
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    #39
    after a long hiatus i have come back to the sport

    here's a match versus someone mountain-tops above my current level


    he suggested i posted it here to get some advice he said he would have posted it himself but he didn't want to come off as show-off-ish.. haha..

    7:30 into the match, he asks if i have a game-plan and it was concluded i was basically backed into a corner. he said that's my first problem already. my rebuttal was i was trying to keep my serves low short and close to the net to avoid any out-right winners and that i decided to not serve topspin since he seemed to have some good flip kills. he then advised against fore-going the topspin serves because variation is an important key to matches

    in the third game, i ended up trying to experiment more on service since he mentions that they are all too easy to read

    i mean, when playing an opponent that is leagues above myself, he's right when i asked him what his game-plan was. i just had too many weaknesses against him for him to have to even need a game-plan. my service receive was bad against his serve. my serves were basically all attack-able. i don't really mind losing to a player like this as it feels normal.. but when i lose to a short pips/long pips old dude who depends on my mistakes... that's what kills me inside haha

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    #40
    I have just watched your first few serves, if you are the guy in the black shirt.

    1) Try to place the ball's first bounce much nearer at the net on your side --> serve won't be that long
    2) Try to hit the ball when serving near table heigth niveau --> serve won't be that high

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