Advice on Shakehand Blade

Basically i play mostly shakehand to a reasonably low level and penhold to a lower but still somtimes i pull it out in cirtain circumstances level.
shakehand is easier to learn if you have played other raquet sports.
the main disadvantages to the switch are mostly loss of forehand power and imho a loss of the tpb which i find WAY better for short touch(and as a novice i found it easier to loop backspin on my forehand penhold because its easier to generate raquet speed).

advantages are backhand with a bit more easy power and much easier backhand against underspin.

if your swapping i would invest in a decent OFF blade, donic senso carbon if you like carbon or any reall OFF all wood blade just because using a fast shakehand blade to compensate for the reduction if FH power will make it really awkward to develop the backhand considering you sound like you want to do it from scratch and fast bat can make for lazy strokes(i made that mistake am currently moving down a notch).

my reccomendation: h3 neo for fh OR h3 50 if you want a soft sponge. sriver bachhand is awesome. donic make good cheap bats so maybe senso carbon or inifinity vps is a great blade(i sitll own one for now until i hand it down to a clubmate for cash.... i mean sell?)

Do the secret handshake with Carl and buy hiz Virtuoso+, hiz Allround Evolution, or hiz Kim Jung Hoon.

If you're just starting out, I hear the Butterfly Timo Boll Blade is a good all round blade with good pace on it. I find the Stiga blades a bit quick and harsh. I have a Stiga Carbo blade with a red handle and it's way too quick. I have now changed it to a Spout Winning Blade from china. It's amazing, great control and quick.

Hope this helps.

Well your coach must rea,ly give you advice as he knows how you play and what is relevant but if he recommended fast and again this is a trail I really liked waldner legend carbon. Soft outer and snappy when you hit, I can't recommend a bh rubber but i like sriver g3 the most however I also liked and everyone raved about rhyzm p. But when I used rhyzm I wasn't of a good enough level to really appreciate it I think.
But your coach should be able to give you advice.

Get a 5 ply all wood blade. nittaku violin. osp virtuoso, nexy peter pan. Stiga "just close your eyes and point" All good choices.

ProPetrov said:

I've tried them all, awesome control, not enough speed XD

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If you have only been playing 4 months, the blades you are using are too fast.

ProPetrov said:

It doesn't depend on the months of playing, but on the hours of training. For example: if someone is playing 3 hours a week 1 year, he will be way worse than someone that plays +16 hours a week 4 months.

I don't thing the blades I'm using are too fast, because I have no issues to control the ball and keep it on the table

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Only video tape can tell. Keeping the ball on the table isn't everything and even world class players are sometimes guilty of using blades that are too fast. Some people make it a pride thing but it really isn't - it is about what is best for your understanding of the game. Learning to rally is very important for development.

Well, I am glad someone else jumped in before I did. I almost were something and stopped.

You've been playing 4 months and you think you know what is best for your game and you think you are not a beginner? What....have you been playing 90 hours a day, 40 days a week?

16 hours a week of training with a coach is still not enough to get someone past an intermediate stage to an expert stage in 4 months. Nor would 36 hours a week for most people. So, either you are amazingly gifted and the Chinese team should be looking to recruit you. Or you are possibly not be best judge of your own level. Nothing wrong with that. You wouldn't be the first.

So, here, I will try and explain a few things. The most important aspect of developing as a player is developing your skill at generating more SPIN. The blades you are looking at are all pretty hard with a relatively small amount of dwell time. They will not help you learn to generate more spin as well as they should.

They also have Carbon in them which means that when you hit the ball with contact that is not ideal, they help you out and you still get a good shot. There is something valuable about that if you are already at a semi-pro level (past the intermediate level) or if you just like to play and whack the ball around without much care of whether you improve. However, if you want to improve the carbon can make you think a ball that was contacted badly is a ball that was contacted well because they both feel very close to the same if you don't have really good touch, feel and highly refined contact already.

Now, a 5 ply all wood blade will make you have to work a little harder to get power but that actually helps you develop a good stroke better. It will cause you to start using your hips and the weight transfer more to get power into the ball. So, the fact that the blade is slightly slower will get more of the subtle aspects of the stroke into your muscle memory because you need to work more to get power into the ball. In other words, YOU NEED BETTER TECHNIQUE TO USE AN ALL WOOD BLADE SO YOU WILL DEVELOP BETTER TECHNIQUE MUCH FASTER WITH ONE.

Whereas, a carbon blade does the work for you because of how fast it is so you are more likely to cut down your stroke, use an incomplete stroke and not feel the reason to start adding the timing of the hips and weight transfer into the stroke because the ball just flies off the racket.

Now there is that issue of feeling. With a wood racket, when your contact is bad, it feels bad. When your contact is good, it feels good. So you are rewarded for good contact and punished for bad contact and you LEARN MUCH FASTER HOW TO MAKE GOOD CONTACT as a result.

Whereas, with a carbon blade you could be stuck for years thinking bad contact is fine and that will slow the progression of your improvement. YOU WILL GET BETTER MORE SLOWLY AS A RESULT. This is stuff that has to do with your brain and processing what you feel so training can't really overcome what I am talking about. It happens without you even knowing it.

Now the last thing, those fast blades, the ball flies off so fast that you barely have time to spin the ball so there is very little chance you will learn to spin the ball HEAVY with one of those blades if you don't already know how to spin the ball HEAVY.

Whereas, with a 5 ply, all wood blade with good feeling, good flex and a semi-soft top ply like Limba, the ball stays on the racket much longer so you have a longer time to activate the topsheet and sponge to learn how to generate spin. And, with those blades you can feel when you do that. So the help you develop and improve higher level skills much faster.

Now if you told me that when you loop, from either your backhand or your forehand, you can make a slow spinny loop that has so much spin that a semi-pro level player or a high related coach can't keep the ball down on the table because the spin causes the ball to jump up too much for your coach, and you also say hat you can do that whenever you want, I would say, perhaps you can use whatever you like.

But if you can't do slow spinny loops right to a High Level Opponent and have them miss because there was too much topspin on your ball, then odds are you should use something like one of these:

Nittaku Acoustic
Nittaku Violin
OSP Virtuoso Off-
Tibhar Stratus Power Wood
Stiga Allround Evolution
Stiga Offensive Classic.

But, most people who are only playing 4 months think they are better than they are and need a blade that is faster than what would be good for them.

So don't take our word for it.

In that case recommend you just get the creme de la creme and go for a Butterfly Schlager Carbon.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

ProPetrov said:

It doesn't depend on the months of playing, but on the hours of training. For example: if someone is playing 3 hours a week 1 year, he will be way worse than someone that plays +16 hours a week 4 months.

I don't thing the blades I'm using are too fast, because I have no issues to control the ball and keep it on the table

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Disagree...
Quantity doesn't equalize Quality. Even if you pick up stuff fast. There are players over here playing in the fifth highest league and don't practice a lot, (maybe just once or twice a week) but that's most of the times because they played much higher already and already developed that feel for the ball.
Carl & NL have been sharing some very valuable knowledge already.
I'd like to nominate this as 'post of the year'

UpSideDownCarl said:

Well, I am glad someone else jumped in before I did. I almost were something and stopped.

You've been playing 4 months and you think you know what is best for your game and you think you are not a beginner? What....have you been playing 90 hours a day, 40 days a week?

16 hours a week of training with a coach is still not enough to get someone past an intermediate stage to an expert stage in 4 months. Nor would 36 hours a week for most people. So, either you are amazingly gifted and the Chinese team should be looking to recruit you. Or you are possibly not be best judge of your own level. Nothing wrong with that. You wouldn't be the first.

So, here, I will try and explain a few things. The most important aspect of developing as a player is developing your skill at generating more SPIN. The blades you are looking at are all pretty hard with a relatively small amount of dwell time. They will not help you learn to generate more spin as well as they should.

They also have Carbon in them which means that when you hit the ball with contact that is not ideal, they help you out and you still get a good shot. There is something valuable about that if you are already at a semi-pro level (past the intermediate level) or if you just like to play and whack the ball around without much care of whether you improve. However, if you want to improve the carbon can make you think a ball that was contacted badly is a ball that was contacted well because they both feel very close to the same if you don't have really good touch, feel and highly refined contact already.

Now, a 5 ply all wood blade will make you have to work a little harder to get power but that actually helps you develop a good stroke better. It will cause you to start using your hips and the weight transfer more to get power into the ball. So, the fact that the blade is slightly slower will get more of the subtle aspects of the stroke into your muscle memory because you need to work more to get power into the ball. In other words, YOU NEED BETTER TECHNIQUE TO USE AN ALL WOOD BLADE SO YOU WILL DEVELOP BETTER TECHNIQUE MUCH FASTER WITH ONE.

Whereas, a carbon blade does the work for you because of how fast it is so you are more likely to cut down your stroke, use an incomplete stroke and not feel the reason to start adding the timing of the hips and weight transfer into the stroke because the ball just flies off the racket.

Now there is that issue of feeling. With a wood racket, when your contact is bad, it feels bad. When your contact is good, it feels good. So you are rewarded for good contact and punished for bad contact and you LEARN MUCH FASTER HOW TO MAKE GOOD CONTACT as a result.

Whereas, with a carbon blade you could be stuck for years thinking bad contact is fine and that will slow the progression of your improvement. YOU WILL GET BETTER MORE SLOWLY AS A RESULT. This is stuff that has to do with your brain and processing what you feel so training can't really overcome what I am talking about. It happens without you even knowing it.

Now the last thing, those fast blades, the ball flies off so fast that you barely have time to spin the ball so there is very little chance you will learn to spin the ball HEAVY with one of those blades if you don't already know how to spin the ball HEAVY.

Whereas, with a 5 ply, all wood blade with good feeling, good flex and a semi-soft top ply like Limba, the ball stays on the racket much longer so you have a longer time to activate the topsheet and sponge to learn how to generate spin. And, with those blades you can feel when you do that. So the help you develop and improve higher level skills much faster.

Now if you told me that when you loop, from either your backhand or your forehand, you can make a slow spinny loop that has so much spin that a semi-pro level player or a high related coach can't keep the ball down on the table because the spin causes the ball to jump up too much for your coach, and you also say hat you can do that whenever you want, I would say, perhaps you can use whatever you like.

But if you can't do slow spinny loops right to a High Level Opponent and have them miss because there was too much topspin on your ball, then odds are you should use something like one of these:

Nittaku Acoustic
Nittaku Violin
OSP Virtuoso Off-
Tibhar Stratus Power Wood
Stiga Allround Evolution
Stiga Offensive Classic.

But, most people who are only playing 4 months think they are better than they are and need a blade that is faster than what would be good for them.

So don't take our word for it.

In that case recommend you just get the creme de la creme and go for a Butterfly Schlager Carbon.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

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OSP Virtuoso Off - maybe

4months is not enough time to talk about speed, regarding blade i would suggest an "all around wood blade" to master your skills.

But if you really insist on having a fast blade forget about technique and buy mazunov, sardius, gergely and let blocking do the talking.

CARL, im smelling a next peanut.

You have a good coach then why are you askin us here? Ask your coach and take his advice.
You comin here askin for advice and you shove everybody off, why dont you just google things and get the boll tricarbon and slap it with t64 and play. You talk about chinese style of play ohhh yeah you forgot to mention footwork, its the "most important" bread and butter of this style yah know.
Oh yah i already know you will say you have a superior footwork skill, and you are from spain.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

This is my second year playing consistently in my local club (3 training sessions per week 3 hours each) and now I start hit forehand topspins somewhat consistently, still it's rare to do more than 3-4 in a row and most people beat me in the club. My entry-level wooden blade feels more than enough.
I'm really curious about how this story ends because I want to learn if you are in the level you claim you are, with the amount of training you refer to. I agree

Videotape is always the best solution.

NextLevel said:

Videotape is always the best solution.

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That is true. I think that is probably the best thing we can do here is recommend ProPetrov get some video footage of him playing at his best so we can have an idea of his actual level.

ProPetrov said:

That were some good points Carl!

I know how a normal 4 months begginer looks like, I've played with a lot of begginers, and I know that my level is way higher than that. I know I've been playing for only 4 months, but I waesn't just playing ping pong with a friend, I was training in a high level table tennis course with the best spanish players like Jesus Cantero WR nº233 plus a 16 hours a week with almost an invididual coaching (we are only 4 serious players in our club). I won easily 2 of them (they are playing more than 2 years).

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See, the thing is, you are comparing yourself to "beginners" and I think we may have different terms for things.

I accepted as soon as you said you were playing 16 hours a week and you were getting coaching, that your level of progression would be different than that of someone who got 1 hour of coaching a week and played for 16 hours a week. In fact I thought: "what if you had taken 16 hours of coaching a week with the best crew of coaches from China and they were training you as though they wanted you on the Chinese National Team." And I concluded that for you to reach the level I was referring to, you would have had to be trading 40 hours a day 36 days a week for 4 months and you still would probably not have reached the level I was referring to. Nor would you with 30 hours a week of training in 1 year, even if that training was from the best team of coaches in the world.

So let me give some definitions.

1) Not Worth Considering: someone who has played tennis and had a table in their basement and plays "Ping Pong". That is one step below a beginner based on the realities Tournament Level Play

2) Beginner: someone who has been playing in a REAL CLUB and been getting coaching, usually for about 4 years or less. If you want that level as a USATT Rating: lower than 1600!!!!! That is what a beginner is.

3) Intermediate Player: someone that is actually really darn good in comparison to what someone who plays only casually would think is good. A person who does not REALLY play would think an Intermediate level player is A PROFESSIONAL. Really, an intermediate level player would be between 1800-2200 (USATT rating). So there is a gap between where beginner ends and Intermediate player begins. The players between 1600-1800 are low level intermediates or high level beginners depending on how you want to look at things.

4) Elite Player or Semi-Pro: these guys need just a bit more work to get up to the pro level but their technique is on the amazing side of things. For USATT rating: 2200-2500.

5) Pro: over 2500.

6) World Class Player: over 2750.

If you look at my post, I said that, those Carbon blades you are thinking of WILL, most likely, HINDER YOUR PROGRESS, unless you have reached the level of A SEMI-PRO. Which I honestly doubt you would have with 16 hours of coaching a week for 4 months or even a year: even with top flight coaching. Most extremely talented players actually wouldn't reach the level I am talking about with 30 hours of coaching a week in their first year.

ProPetrov said:

I can do the slow spinny loops vs a 2nd National Division player (semi pro).

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My question had more to it. Will the 2nd Division player hit the ball long because of how much topspin you have on it? Can you simply spin that player off the table where they get to the ball, get their racket on it, but have trouble keeping the ball from jumping off their racket and going long and high past the table on your side?

That would tell me something valuable.

ProPetrov said:

I've tried most of the OFF- blades you've mentioned and they fell too slow for me. I'm looking for a blade that can help me develop my game but also be very good at tournaments. I know I'm not good enough yet to play with Butterfly Schlager Carbon, but I thing that a blade like a DHS Hurricane King II or similar can help me with my development.

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Your thinking is right in line with how most people who are decent players but not playing very long think: "I need a faster blade!"

One of the things that a blade that is not too fast does for you tactically is this: when you loop, it is easier to get a spinny moderate paced ball to land close to the net at a high angle. A faster blade won't let you do this. With the wider angles, the increased spin that YOU WILL GET with a blade that is not quite so fast, and the extra ability to place the ball, tactically you would be able to control the table better and make your opponent have to move more and take more awkward shots from out of position.

Because a faster blade necessarily gets less spin and gives a flatter arc, your shots that have the heaviest spin will still usually be landing farther away from the net which will mean you will have much less of an ability to get those higher angled shots that really help your development from a tactical standpoint.

But, it is very hard to get someone who has only been playing 4 months to understand why, from every perspective you can come up with, an All+/Off- all wood blade is better for developing technique until you are at the level of those division 2 players you mentioned.

It would be great to see some video footage to see what you play like. But probably a good coach who knows how you play, what you are good at, what you need to work on, would know what equipment would be best for you.

From my perspective, if you are as good as you think you are, you SHOULD be playing with top of the line "Tensioned" rubbers like Tenergy 05 or Evolution MX-P but you should not be using a carbon blade yet.

If you wanted something that was Off Speed instead of Off- you could get something like one of these:

1) OSP Virtuoso Plus
2) Nittaku Tenor
3) Tibhar Kim Jung Hoon
4) Butterfly Petr Korbel

Those would still be okay. But Virtuoso Off-, Acoustic, Stratus PowerWood, Peter Pan, Offensive Classic would probably be better for you.

One last note:

Ma Long played with a Nittaku Acoustic till he was about 18. If you look at his shots from back then, they were faster than his shots are now. That is not just the blade! That is technique. However, his shots now have more power because he has developed and they have more spin. But that is still technique and not the blade he is using. And his technique is so good at this point that he can get more spin with a faster, carbon blade than he could back then with a slower all wood blade. Technique, technique, technique!!! This sport is about technique. Not equipment.

And if you really understood the subtleties, you would know why you want a blade that helps you develop better technique rather than one that makes the ball go faster without you doing as much.

But of course, since the Nittaku Acoustic is not fast enough for you and you need something faster, PERHAPS that means that in 4 months of training you are better than Ma Long was when he reached the top 10 in be world. [emoji2]




Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia