OSP Virtuoso (Off-) v Tibhar Stratus Power Wood

Both are good blades. The biggest difference is going to be that one is hand made and the other is mass produced. That is more of a personal preference thing in a way. I like knowing that the racket in my I use was hand crafted by someone who really knows how to make blades that feel like the old, classic Stiga blades. But you would have to know what that feels like to understand it. Also, the specs on the blade were customed to my specifications. But you would need to know a decent amount about blades for that to be worth it.

For me, it makes me happy to have that kind of feeling on impact. But it would not change my level of play to use either or go back and forth.

One thing you need to know. With an OSP blade, for the first 5-20 hours of play they actually feel weird. They feel like something is wrong with them. They feel like a trampoline and the wood has more feeling than it should. But then they break in and play really well. I think this may have something to do with the fact that they make your blade after you order it and most blades you buy were made months or even years before you buy them and sat on a shelf in a warehouse or store for a long time. But it also may just be the gluing process they use.

Also, more than any other blade I have hit with, as they age they play better and better. This is even noticeable within the first 6 months.

But either blade would be an excellent choice.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

USD Carl I just wanted to say thank you for your contributions. I thought I knew a few things but as I play more/learn more I realize how little I know lol, and I have found your contributions valuable in understanding the products and in providing context for that info. your discussion on all wood blades in some thread most recently has given me something to think about and moved me in a different direction when thinking about my next purchase. Im not surprised to see you were the first response. Especially since i was looking at osp based on some of your post, comments/ recommendations. However I do find the price a bit high for me right know especially since I also want to get a good all + blade aswell. I have also thought about stratus pw especially if I could get a lighter one, and the budget is more friendly at the moment. Would you recommend any other high control 5 ply all wood blades that would provide optimal spin in off- range. I was also interested in Andro Temper Tech OFF- and some Xiom options any thoughts? Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of the mass produced blades, the Off- blade I really like is the Stiga Allround Evolution. It says Allround in the title but it is really Off-. It is quite a good blade and very inexpensive.

Quick question though: why do you want a "lighter" blade? Is it an injury? Or something else?

Have you heard me talk about blade weight? Do you know that most top pros use a blade that is somewhere between 90-95 grams.

If you take 10 blades of the same kind--say, 10 Stratus Power Woods--and 5 of them weigh between 80-85 grams and 5 of them weigh between 90-95 grams, all of the ones that weigh between 90-95 grams will have better feeling and play better than the ones between 80-85 grams. Most of the time, a blade of the same make that is 92 grams will feel and play better than a blade that is 89 grams.

Now there is a trade-off. When is a blade too heavy for you. I know for me, I am using a blade that is 91 grams with VERY heavy rubbers. The weight is not a problem for me.

If you are healthy and in good shape, you would do better with a reasonable weight for your blade. Between 88-92 grams is really okay for most amateurs who don't train as much and are not as strong as the top pros.

As far as the Temper Tech, I remember playing one of those several years ago for a few min. I thought it felt good then. I can't tell you what I would feel now.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

If I ever destroy my virtuoso, I'd probably go for the stratus powerwood, but I wouldn't switch otherwise. Virtuoso is just really nicely designed and finished, it has a great handle, but I wouldn't say it plays that much better (to compensate for the price difference).

Andro temper tech off- plays different to virtuoso. The plies are completely different to virtuoso/powerwood and the temperature treatment increased the hardness of the wood (i think). This blade (for me) excels at control, blocking and flat hitting. Spinning works really good too, but it had this automatic flat hitting auto-aim or something, because every smack landed on the table. It worked with pretty much every rubber I tried, but I really liked it with somewhat softer rubbers (genius sound, xiom vega elite) whereas virtuoso does not work with soft rubbers for me.

You really can't go wrong with any of these 3 blades.

One thing I know about my Virtuoso Plus, it is a tank. It is stronger, more powerful, at sustaining unintended blows than any blade I have ever seen. I have slammed it full force into the edge of the table by accident and thought I was going to be needing to do tech work on the wood and not had to do anything. My Virtuoso Off- is decently solid. But not quite as indestructible. Still, it never sustained damage that needing fixing. But it never sustained the kind of blows my V+ has taken. Prior to using the V+ I thought Butterfly blades were the most solid in this way. But nothing I have seen could compare to my V+.

I do, personally feel that the two plies of Limba, one on top of the other, allows the V- and the V+ to spin the ball better than anything else and I love the big wood feel of both blades. So, I would actually say, the Virtuoso blades are a few notches better than any mass produced blade I have felt. But you kind of have to be a weirdo like me to really feel these kinds of differences and have them matter to you. My actual favorite part of playing is what the wood feels like when you dig into the ball. And for me, nothing really compares to the two Virtuoso blades, except a few blades I have tried that were made in the early 1990s: 1991 to be exact and the blades were an OLD Stiga Clipper and an OLD Nittaku/Avalox P-700s. The Virtuoso blades feel closer to that feeling than anything else I have felt. But the OSP blades feel slightly softer than those blades and those old blades felt a bit crisper.

Thanks for the info on the andro blade mdp!
Carl good question followed by useful info about blade weights. Im not bothered by heavier set ups at all. I'm in OK shape, I used to play baseball extensively (picture) so one actual plus is arm strength, for the forehand anyway. I've just read several reviews on the Power Wood that said blades in the 85 range play like an offensive - blade and blades in the 90 to 93 range can play like a offensive plus. I'm probably making too much out of subjective reviews but i heard it a few times and that just kind of stuck. it sounds a bit simplistic when repeating it i just didn't feel like I didn't need the offensive + speed. I have valued control and spin over speed in my setups up to this point and I have played classic type blades like the yasaka Swedish classic and DONIC waldner all play because of that and partially because i played close to the table and i can create a decent amount of pace quickly on my own. But different developments like picked up a cheep htr clipper clone, obtaining a better understanding of technique and why different shots fail, playing better competition, and starting to playing more mid distance etc have made me realizing I could handle/ benefit from a good spin orientated off, off- blade.
I am playing Chinese rubber right how rotating between dhs h8, and 3-50 on the forehand sanwei gears on the backhand. When I'm on the h8 feels amazing, I love looping underspin with it. The 3-50 gives nice spin and more room for less than perfect technique in match play to still go down, the trade off being its a little less effective with topspin drives.
I thought really hard about just buying the osp and be done! I love the info they provide on there sight and the individually crafted aspect. when you take that into account the blade seems pretty reasonable especially when compared to products prices buy butterfly. But I'm also getting a robot for training at home and feel like getting a good all + blade and a off, off- blade would be a good idea for comparison. Thanks for the info and suggestion i dont think i will request a lighter blade if i go that way. along with power wood I will look at the stiga allaround E. I have a better idea about this category and I have some ideas here but what about solid, good topspin all+ blades while we are at it. For reference I liked the donic better than my Swedish classic. It had a bigger sweet spot felt a bit more sold.
Thanks again
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

A 90 Gram Stratus Power Wood will not be a problem. The heavy ones do not become Off+ blades. It will have good feel and good control and either be on the high end of the spectrum of Off- or the low end of the spectrum of Off which is really fine.

I played baseball through high school as well. Years ago I knew a bunch of guys who were always talking about lighter blades and wanting a blade that was under 75 grams. And, at the time I thought they might know something I didn't. But now I know that, unless you have some kind of injury there is a weight range between 85-95 grams that is optimal for most players. My blade is 91 grams. If I had a 95 gram blade, that might be perfect for me. But I also don't think I need anything different than what I am doing.

Der_Echte is famous for adding between 10-30 grams of weight to the handle of his blades to get them to weigh between 95-120 grams. I've tried several of his modified blades and they all feel great. I felt a few of them before and after and they always feel better with the extra weight.

And I have said to people: "I used to use a 34 inch baseball bat. I've used a tennis racket. Why would I be worried about the weight of a 95 gram blade."

Hahaha.

Really get whatever weight you want. But, in the long run, you will be happier with something around 90 grams. Baal's numbers are 88-92 grams for his comfort zone. But that is with an ALC blade.

Plus, I get a kick out of when someone tries my blade and goes, "woe, it's pretty heavy!"


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Mistake lol

Once again thanks again for the info and context. your analogies were spot on. I have heave blades/rackets (blade plus rubbers) and some light ones. I some times go back and forth and have never really even thought about weight when playing. As you may be able to tell im newish to table tennis. I started playing at a club 10 or so months ago. My game has really improved and I'm having a blast/fully addicted. point being when I'm not playing im on YouTube, blogs like this, or looking at equipment etc because it fun. I realize I'm not always understanding the context fully and it not been earned through experience quite yet. although that's coming bit buy bit. So yea when lots of people are talking about the weight of setup or blade I feel like I totally missing something.

Btw I just ordered some new blades which includes the power wood. Iask for it in the 90 to 89 range. can't wait to get it in!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

UpSideDownCarl said:

A 90 Gram Stratus Power Wood will not be a problem. The heavy ones do not become Off+ blades. It will have good feel and good control and either be on the high end of the spectrum of Off- or the low end of the spectrum of Off which is really fine.

I played baseball through high school as well. Years ago I knew a bunch of guys who were always talking about lighter blades and wanting a blade that was under 75 grams. And, at the time I thought they might know something I didn't. But now I know that, unless you have some kind of injury there is a weight range between 85-95 grams that is optimal for most players. My blade is 91 grams. If I had a 95 gram blade, that might be perfect for me. But I also don't think I need anything different than what I am doing.

Der_Echte is famous for adding between 10-30 grams of weight to the handle of his blades to get them to weigh between 95-120 grams. I've tried several of his modified blades and they all feel great. I felt a few of them before and after and they always feel better with the extra weight.

And I have said to people: "I used to use a 34 inch baseball bat. I've used a tennis racket. Why would I be worried about the weight of a 95 gram blade."

Hahaha.

Really get whatever weight you want. But, in the long run, you will be happier with something around 90 grams. Baal's numbers are 88-92 grams for his comfort zone. But that is with an ALC blade.

Plus, I get a kick out of when someone tries my blade and goes, "woe, it's pretty heavy!"


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Click to expand...

Are there other 5ply blades that have 4plies of limba and an ayous core like the virtuoso? I have a Korbel Black tag but it's head is a little smaller than so it's pretty light, I guess I'll look into ordering a Virtuoso should there be no cheaper alternative. In terms of weight I tried a very light blade, the Tibhar Balsa Fibretec 75 weighing 72g. It feel light even with MX-P and T05 which I really had trouble enjoying as I prefer heavyweights. But it'll make sense for those that feel that modern medium hard - hard rubbers are too heavy. I have a black tag Mazunov ST that I have yet to try out and that is an OFF+, will for example a Stratus PowerWood with Der_Echte's mod make it an OFF+ ?

Korbel, Stratus Power Wood and Virtuoso have the same plies. Different thickness of individual plies. But all three are Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba.

I wouldn't really consider Mazinov an Off+ even though in the 1990s that is what was considered Off+.

A Stratus Power Wood with Der_'s modification to add weight to the handle may make it solidly Off. But I don't think it would make it Off+. In the end, I guess part of this is how you define Off and Off+.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

DJeX said:

Are there other 5ply blades that have 4plies of limba and an ayous core like the virtuoso? I have a Korbel Black tag but it's head is a little smaller than so it's pretty light, I guess I'll look into ordering a Virtuoso should there be no cheaper alternative. In terms of weight I tried a very light blade, the Tibhar Balsa Fibretec 75 weighing 72g. It feel light even with MX-P and T05 which I really had trouble enjoying as I prefer heavyweights. But it'll make sense for those that feel that modern medium hard - hard rubbers are too heavy. I have a black tag Mazunov ST that I have yet to try out and that is an OFF+, will for example a Stratus PowerWood with Der_Echte's mod make it an OFF+ ?

Click to expand...

Other 5ply blades with limba-limba outer/secondary that I have played a few sessions with are Nittaku Acoustic and Adidas Challenge Force. Acoustic is different with a Kiri core. Both have great feeling, but not like the Virtuoso. Both Nittaku and Adidas are very well finished, but the Virtuoso appears even a notch better visually. In the hand, they have drastic differences in feel. I think several factors play a part: head shape, head size, thickness, weight, handle size, and quality of wood.

The Nittaku and Adidas both suffer from an unstable vibration when loop driving at mid distance. The Virtuoso does not have this feeling even though it is the thinnest among the three and has the largest head size (159). OSP seems to use even better quality wood than Nittaku and Adidas.

Jabugo said:

Other 5ply blades with limba-limba outer/secondary that I have played a few sessions with are Nittaku Acoustic and Adidas Challenge Force. Acoustic is different with a Kiri core. Both have great feeling, but not like the Virtuoso. Both Nittaku and Adidas are very well finished, but the Virtuoso appears even a notch better visually. In the hand, they have drastic differences in feel. I think several factors play a part: head shape, head size, thickness, weight, handle size, and quality of wood.

The Nittaku and Adidas both suffer from an unstable vibration when loop driving at mid distance. The Virtuoso does not have this feeling even though it is the thinnest among the three and has the largest head size (159). OSP seems to use even better quality wood than Nittaku and Adidas.

Click to expand...

Other factors that could be added.

1) the difference between hand crafted and mass produced.

2) the thickness of individual plies.

3) gluing process.

But, a correction about the Virtuoso's head size: with a Virtuoso, you get to choose a small, medium or large head size.

Small = 150x157mm
Medium = 150x158mm
Large = 150x159mm

The larger head size will add more feeling, flex and a little extra power.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

You may consider Xiom Offensive S as it is quite solid blade with enough speed and spin generations. Craftmanship is also quite good as xiom is well known for.


As for Stratus Power Wood please consider it probably will be more head heavy than Virtuoso and Offensive S.
Carl, correct me if I am wrong.

Player87 said:

Y

As for Stratus Power Wood please consider it probably will be more head heavy than Virtuoso and Offensive S.
Carl, correct me if I am wrong.

Click to expand...

You are right as Powerwood is slightly larger than those.

Korbel has a large head size too.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

UpSideDownCarl said:

Other factors that could be added.

1) the difference between hand crafted and mass produced.

2) the thickness of individual plies.

3) gluing process.

But, a correction about the Virtuoso's head size: with a Virtuoso, you get to choose a small, medium or large head size.

Small = 150x157mm
Medium = 150x158mm
Large = 150x159mm

The larger head size will add more feeling, flex and a little extra power.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Click to expand...

That's right. The Virtuoso has 3 different head sizes and several handle choices (including the rare conical). Compared to the Adidas and Nittaku, the Virtuoso has the thinnest limba plies, and the core is thinner as well. Yet at mid distance, it felt more powerful and generated more spin.

Hi,

tommorow I will have new Virtuoso . last year I played Power Stratus wood, in my opinion one of worst blades. Any feeling and any control.
I hope that Virtuoso will better

I have found the osp virtuoso is great for playing near the table, and it lacks of power at mid distance and far from the table which is written in the manufacturer description. (The rubber used was yasaka rakza soft max)