Who do you think will win the 2015 World Tour Grand Finals?

  • Ma Long

    Votes: 45 63.4%
  • Fan Zhendong

    Votes: 8 11.3%
  • Xu Xin

    Votes: 9 12.7%
  • Dimitrij Ovtcharov

    Votes: 2 2.8%
  • Zhang Jike

    Votes: 4 5.6%
  • Jun Mizutani

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Marcos Freitas

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chuang Chih Yuan

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Wong Chun Ting

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • Other (Post Below)

    Votes: 2 2.8%

  • Total voters
    71
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After watching dima for so long I believe that he finds it really difficult to play his best when he is losing or when the match is tight. He gets disappointed easily, I dont think he will pose a threat to the chinese if he continues like this


Here is my theory - his real problem is that Dima is a bully - he is used to having more power than his opponents and overwhelming them with his power. I compare him to Sharapova - once the opponent does not have any trouble with his power, he has no real plan B. That is why his German teammates know how to play him well in tournaments, especially Filus, who can back off the table, or a healthy Boll/Baum etc.

But in China, they have powerful players so Dima is not unique. Dima is at most as powerful as FZD, and probably more around the other Chinese members of the top 5, but the difference is that they have each other to overpower, and realize they have to do more than just play powerful shots to win matches. Until someone in Europe has CNT level power for Dima to get used to, I fear Dima will continue to bully Europe, but will not diversify his game sufficiently to compete with the Chinese.
 
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I explained the trap, I dont know what you didnt understand

Blocking near the endline is not viable for ma long cause his bh block is not so good near the table and its risky. The weak points for every player is blocking near the endline as you said, and as close to the net with a "fading" ball with low bounce as possible (which is not a "deadly" mistake if you know how to do it). That is what ma long did and it was the 2nd best and safest option. He even added a bit of sidespin to curve the ball down.

Fast block does not work against FZD, FZD is maybe the best in the world right now in fast topspping exchanges because of his overall body strength & balance, varying the speed tempo and trajectory of block is what creates problems against him . Most of the time FZD makes mistakes when the tempo varies.

one fast block he kills it second fast block he kills it, 3rd slow block he misses, this scenarion has happened many times against ml and zjk also. Ma long knew that and constantly took advantage of it, slow blocks, wait for a FH kill, slow block again, that was the trap and ML patiently waited for BAD attack from fan to kill it back.

Thanks for the further explanation! First I wasn't sure about your point, since in my eyes, a trap is a well planned set-up, where the opponent falls for if he foolishly steps into it. FZD did make a great effort though. But now I get what you mean.

A "normal" short block is a huge risk these days, but the spinning short one can pose a threat. One has to stress that difference!

In the match point however the blocks are neither slow and passive, nor spinny, nor near the net. They were low and long and had reasonable pace. True those weren't countertopspins or spinblocks from short distance. ML went a step or two back from the table, gaining some time for himself and tried to initiate an counter-attack as soon as possible (hence the effort of getting into a FH grip).

You are right in mentioning his patience to wait for a weaker attack (one of the differences between FZD and ML, FZD doesn't know of any shot from any opponent that is out of his range to attack :D)
But I assure you, that ML didn't have the time to look at the topspins of FZD and start thinking about the decision "Shall I wait another one? I don't know... Maybe this one? Yes definitely! I am so going for it! No! That one wasn't bad enough. Back to blocking it is. Hey! Is that Pär Gerell over there?! Countertopspin! YAY!"

Back from my imagination to the reality :eek:

ML played an active block as a safe option, while waiting for a suitable ball to counter (who would try to attack a shot, which is unsuitable to him?) We both agree on that. But I say, that the placement of his blocks in relation to FZD's body was what earned him the opportunity to counter attack. ML played from a few steps behind the table. He wanted to go at it with his FH, but wasn't able due to the quality of FZD's shots. So he had to block and tried to block as low and long as possible aiming right at the elbow of FZD. FZD always had to move to get his own body out of the way (Very often one or the other just gamble and try to anticipate these kind of placements and they move earlier, committing to the FH out of the BH. This time, none of them did. Were they nervous? FZD didn't get the placement of his FH-Topspins right. He couldn't force ML to move, but ML forced FZD to move. That's why the quality of FZD's shots dropped and ML was able to give it a go. Adding to that: You'll never (and by that I don't mean actually never in it's 100% literal meaning) see ML play more than two consecutive defending balls.

Cheers,
BLUE
 
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You misunderstood something , I didnt mean that ML was so relaxed where he even noticed par gerell. Check the slow mo of the last point and u will see. Ma long blocks, gets ready for a FH with his hand and small torso rotation to the right, his feet stay on the bh side in c ase the ball comes to bh, he doesnt move his feet to his FH side. He blocks again, again he rotates slightly to counter with FH and again the ball comes back to his BH.

Its not easy to do it at high speed but when you are ma long and have practiced these balls a zillion times it becomes second nature. That killer BH away from the table with the characteristic jump is a signature rally/tactic from ma long through the years. He has even done it against zjk and wang hao many times
 
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Here is my theory - his real problem is that Dima is a bully - he is used to having more power than his opponents and overwhelming them with his power. I compare him to Sharapova - once the opponent does not have any trouble with his power, he has no real plan B. That is why his German teammates know how to play him well in tournaments, especially Filus, who can back off the table, or a healthy Boll/Baum etc.

But in China, they have powerful players so Dima is not unique. Dima is at most as powerful as FZD, and probably more around the other Chinese members of the top 5, but the difference is that they have each other to overpower, and realize they have to do more than just play powerful shots to win matches. Until someone in Europe has CNT level power for Dima to get used to, I fear Dima will continue to bully Europe, but will not diversify his game sufficiently to compete with the Chinese.


wow dude , that's a pretty interesting theory I always like the psychological mindgames during a table tennis "bout". I believe you are totally right, in fact I bring to my mind his face expressions when he loses or gets outplayed in an explosive rally his faces is like "omg my game is not working, he is not afraid , he is totally cool with my game"

I notices faces like these in the world cup match against mizutani, dima was pretty anxious even when he was winning, it seemed like Jun has figured him out totally in the serve receive initiative
 
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There was no trap - it was just an excellent rally which matched BLUE's description. FZD felt that his forehand should overpower Ma Long's backhand in a consistency battle, but the blocks didn't let him get good shots off and Ma Long made an excellent but clearly imperfect counter - I call it clearly imperfect because of the block into the net. But imperfect shots are part of table tennis and spin misreads.
 
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in one year like ma long did ?


ma long has not achieved a grand slam yet. just wait. in terms of big titles under a short period zhang has achieved things no one has ever before. wang liqin 3 wttc but no world cup and no olympics, waldner 3 consecutive wttc finals and one olympic and 1 world cup but in a much longer period. Zhang dominated everyone for 3 years
 
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Well in the end we are describing the same thing with different perspective. You say it was just a rally, I say it was a pre organized rally. Ma long choked at the end, played it safe to win the one point needed and he knew that FZD is prone to make mistakes when attacking and the tempo changes. Not all of the blocks had the same pace, the 3rd one especialy was much slower than the first two

Besides it is clear he is backing a few steps after the serve, knowing that fan will flick it
 
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