Current state of Xu Xin

JeffM · Dec 14, 2015

Hello guys, Xu Xin once again lost to Fan Zhen Dong in the World Tour Grand Finals 2015. Even though he was close to making it a 3-3, his score was 4-2, same as his last defeat. This year, he lost to FZD 4 times in a row in international setting.
Personally I feel Xu Xin was not having bad days when playing against FZD, but he has not been successful in consecutive matches against FZD.
In your opinion, what is the status of XX vs FZD? Is this trend going to continue in 2016? What changes do XX need to make to increase his chances of winning against FZD?
(I know this is way above our level, but I am just curious as to what you guys think)

For me, I feel that XX needs to find a way to deal with FZD exploiting his wide forehand side, and because XX is a penhold player, it can be a tendency to try and pivot to make a powerful shot on the bh side, but this will expose the fh side very vulnerable. This was shown to be not so effective as FZD was well prepared yesterday and on multiple occasions simple block back the shot onto the fh side at high speed, hence winning the point. I feel this isn't specifically just to XX, as FZD and ZJK both made service receives straight down the line to fh side when receiving serves from ML, and that won them points as ML also tried to pivot on the bh side. But I feel it is more detrimental for XX because he is a penhold player and it is natural that he wants to use his FH more often.

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 14, 2015

I think XX is actually a quarter of a level lower than FZD and ML because they are both better at the first 3 balls than XX. The short game and initiating the attack is a huge part of the game and XX is getting better at using the flip as a weapon. But I think his short game is too predictable and allows those two guys to initiate the attack and control the points much more often against him.

JeffM · Dec 14, 2015

UpSideDownCarl said:
I think XX is actually a quarter of a level lower than FZD and ML because they are both better at the first 3 balls than XX. The short game and initiating the attack is a huge part of the game and XX is getting better at using the flip as a weapon. But I think his short game is too predictable and allows those two guys to initiate the attack and control the points much more often against him.

Thanks for the input. Do you feel that he should use the bh flick more often as a way of serve receive instead of putting it short in the middle of the table? Is it something that is harder for XX or penholder or universal for both penholders and shakehanders?

johnxyz · Dec 14, 2015

I did see xx work harder on his bh for flick and counter loop. but as a penhold player, he has to use 3rd ball attack to win against ML,FZD & ZJK. But what he did is step back and valley to valley which he can only win 2 to 3 out of 10 of those points. Ma lin is a master of 3rd ball attack, xx should ask him to help. In conclusion, xx is not aggressive enough as a penhold player. If he cannot have a breakthrough, then ML & FZD will play for China for Rio Olympics. XX can only play in doubles for team matches.

Michal_Z · Dec 14, 2015

Exactly.. Xu Xin needs to watch Ma Lins game.. Or develope backhand as Wang Hao did, because at that level it is too much of a weakness.. I remember when Xu Xin won tournament beating Ma Long and Zhang Jike - the difference was, Xu Xin did not step around that much, he used his BH instead. And was really successfull. So in general, that is what he needs to do.

johnxyz · Dec 14, 2015

yeah, the only way xx can win against other big 3 is either having wang hao's bh if he goes for valley's style or ma lin's control with 3rd ball attack. of cos it would be better if China can develop a penhold player with ma lin's control, wang hao's bh and xx's fh. I hope I can see a "perfect" penhold player in the future

Dan · Dec 14, 2015

Great points guys, could the plastic ball also have an effect? Check out Xu Xin here in the 2013 World Tour Grand Final where he defeated Ma Long 4-3. His forehand looked a lot stronger and more effective. He also used his backhand aggressively close to the table.

violoniste18 · Dec 14, 2015

i hope too see in the future a top penholder player

but the example of ML and FZD will probably draw attention of young chinese players about shakehand style, isn't it ?

Sali · Dec 14, 2015

I think this is a matter of tactics. XX seems to be very inteligent player and too many things go into his mind and he has a problem to decide which strategy to choose. I remember his last match with ML and it looked very easy for ML, he just steped back and block his FH flicks.
Penhold players naturally try to use their FH topsin from the BH side but nowadays when opponent if very fast close to the table block the ball fast to his FH and nobody's home.
In my opinion in the lost match with FZD, XX forehand topspin was not working well even quite easy strokes he missed, it might be also the reason.

necax007 · Dec 14, 2015

I watch all the games live (sometimes it's good to be portuguese

) and i think the problem of XX is really as Carl Said. he couldn't match FZD in the first 3 balls. If you see the game, after the third ball XX actually score more points. Another problem was that FZD constantly forced XX to attack from BH and that isn't good for penhold player, even with the level of XX.

More important, and sorry for the off-topic, was the final! FZD is only 18! i don't remember the last time i saw Ma Long getting out of juice just from the opponent pressure.

Garrison · Dec 14, 2015

XX might be one of the only top chinese players who wasn't the worlds #1 at some point. I remember that the first time I saw him I was really impressed by his speed. Maybe the others stepped up and he couldn't. Might also be that the chinese just know his weaknesses too well and how to play against penholder

passifid · Dec 14, 2015

Garrison said:
XX might be one of the only top chinese players who wasn't the worlds #1 at some point. I remember that the first time I saw him I was really impressed by his speed. Maybe the others stepped up and he couldn't. Might also be that the chinese just know his weaknesses too well and how to play against penholder

he was #1 for 11 months in 2014 and 4 months in 2013...
But yes his forehand since when i first started watching him in 2013 has gone from, wow thats the mos awesome forehand i've seen to huge spin and much slower.
i feel people writing him off is silly as he still is not loosing to ZJK yet but i feel he wont regain no1 or no2 which are the territory of ma and fan for now

Garrison · Dec 14, 2015

passifid said:
he was #1 for 11 months in 2014 and 4 months in 2013...

The thing that I meant is that you never really thought "wow this guy is the best right now" (at least I never thought so of him, when I first saw him I expected him to take that role pretty quickly though). Timo Boll was WR #1 for quite some time too but he was never really the guy that is the favourite in every tournament etc.

Greco · Dec 15, 2015

Of course FZD is improving a lot and he also knows how to play against Xu Xin.
Xu Xin can beat Fan again, but he needs to do different things. Definetly, he should be in Rio, actually there's no player (i mean, non chinese players) who can beat him.

TurboZ · Dec 15, 2015

That is exactly why XX was assigned to coach Wu Jing Ping who brought us Ma Lin and Wang Hao trying to improve his 3rd ball, close table attack and RPB. But strangely enough XX seems to be more happy playing with his old game lately.

johnxyz said:
yeah, the only way xx can win against other big 3 is either having wang hao's bh if he goes for valley's style or ma lin's control with 3rd ball attack. of cos it would be better if China can develop a penhold player with ma lin's control, wang hao's bh and xx's fh. I hope I can see a "perfect" penhold player in the future

TTFrenzy · Dec 15, 2015

Adam Bobrow the ittf commentator pointed out some weaknesses in XX game against FZD. It was obvious that XX does not trust his BH against the other 3 players and at that level of play the other big 3 smell that immediately. He still prefers to pivot and play FH instead which is deadly mistake because he loses time which is gained by the opponent to play an aggressive BH or FH block. Even if the attack is good they still pin him every time in his BH side or body with a steady block that fades with almost no topspin

Backing off the table or pivoting all the time against zhang ma or fan who all of them have steady BH even at their worst day makes it easy for them to beat XX. FAng bo even beat him that way and the funny thing is that fang bo made more mistakes than XX yet he won 4-3 and Xu played his heart out

Billy Boy · Dec 15, 2015

Unfortunately if think ML &FZ,are going to dominate for the foreseeable,with FZ eventually gaining top spot(he's not that far away tbh).I watched ML absolutely destroy Dima(europes best) and did'nt think anyone one would get near him.But as they all know each others game inside out i think XX &ZJK have dropped behind considerably,FZ put ML under a lot of pressure which really he doesn't normally come across (never seen him top edge so many)but thats the pressure .Big winning shots come back now and they have to work even harder to win the point.

Unfortunately it's not looking good for europe ,unless someone really talented and gifted comes along it's gonna be a chinese dynasty for a very long time to come.Lets hope im proved wrong and europe are able to compete &XX,ZJK,get going again because they are both fine players.

Rajah* · Dec 16, 2015

TTFrenzy said:
Adam Bobrow the ittf commentator pointed out some weaknesses in XX game against FZD. It was obvious that XX does not trust his BH against the other 3 players and at that level of play the other big 3 smell that immediately. He still prefers to pivot and play FH instead which is deadly mistake because he loses time which is gained by the opponent to play an aggressive BH or FH block. Even if the attack is good they still pin him every time in his BH side or body with a steady block that fades with almost no topspin

Backing off the table or pivoting all the time against zhang ma or fan who all of them have steady BH even at their worst day makes it easy for them to beat XX. FAng bo even beat him that way and the funny thing is that fang bo made more mistakes than XX yet he won 4-3 and Xu played his heart out

I have to give this a thumb up, this is exactly the story on every encounter he had with his team mates. Xx as you can see always rely on power spin and speed at mid distance so the incoming ball will be much slower as he takes it, while ml fzh zjk focuses on precision and timing near table. It is the very fundamental skill in toe to toe attacking. Precision beats power, timing beats speed.

Thankyou for your post TTFrenzy

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Michal_Z · Dec 16, 2015

Billy Boy said:
Unfortunately if think ML &FZ,are going to dominate for the foreseeable,with FZ eventually gaining top spot(he's not that far away tbh).I watched ML absolutely destroy Dima(europes best) and did'nt think anyone one would get near him.But as they all know each others game inside out i think XX &ZJK have dropped behind considerably,FZ put ML under a lot of pressure which really he doesn't normally come across (never seen him top edge so many)but thats the pressure .Big winning shots come back now and they have to work even harder to win the point.

Unfortunately it's not looking good for europe ,unless someone really talented and gifted comes along it's gonna be a chinese dynasty for a very long time to come.Lets hope im proved wrong and europe are able to compete &XX,ZJK,get going again because they are both fine players.

I hope my son does ;-)
But he is just 7, birthday today, so its a long time to wait.. :-(

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 16, 2015

Michal_Z said:
I hope my son does ;-)
But he is just 7, birthday today, so its a long time to wait.. :-(

That would be awesome.

I personally think XX needs two major adjustments. He has the skill. That isn't the actual issue for him.

The first adjustment is game strategy. He needs to attack the serve more and use his FH and BH flips every chance he gets.

The second adjustment is, he needs to drop the old Penhold BH and try to use the RPM almost exclusively. And then, he needs to stay at home on the BH side when they go at him and use the advantages of the RPB to get his opponents out of position so he can stay at home and attack from closer to the table.

Trouble is, I get the sense he likes playing from further back, fishing a bit, running around a bit and coming up with those shots that look cooler than heck but don't get the job done against his teammates. So, sort of like how Mizutani likes to fish.

XX really has all the tools already. It is just the tools he chooses to use that are the problem.

Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

Current state of Xu Xin

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