German Open 2016

Dan · Jan 29, 2016

This will be an interesting clash, Samsonov vs Apolonia!

UpSideDownCarl · Jan 29, 2016

Giangt said:
JG has played a very good season for his German team in TTC RhönSprudel Maberzell, but I am sorry to say that seeing him play against ML just made him look like a very low rated player which he isn't.

Well, I have seen Ma Long make some guys who are really exceptional players look much lower level than they are. I am not really a Ma Long fan but I do appreciate that he really plays his best and does not mess around on any opponent.

Right now I am thinking about how, in the 2011 WTTCs, he beat Oh Sang Eun 11-2, 11-2, 11-5, 11-7, and I think the match was under 19 min long. There is no question he tries his best in every match even when he is not on.

NextLevel · Jan 29, 2016

Giangt said:
JG has played a very good season for his German team in TTC RhönSprudel Maberzell, but I am sorry to say that seeing him play against ML just made him look like a very low rated player which he isn't.

People don't get it (not speaking to you, Giangt). JG made the main draw of the German Open. Look at Par Gerrell's blog if you don't see that his loss to Ma Long doesn't mean anything.

Ma Long is simply an excellent frontrunner like Federer in his prime. You have to shake him early or you will get the confident version of Ma Long. But once you sow some seeds of doubt, Ma Long's level drops. But you have to do it early. OR when you do it late, you have to sustain it long enough to make him start going back in time. See his matches vs Oshima or even his last match vs. Freitas if you want a good example.

NextLevel · Jan 29, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
Well, I have seen Ma Long make some guys who are really exceptional players look much lower level than they are. I am not really a Ma Long fan but I do appreciate that he really plays his best and does not mess around on any opponent.

Right now I am thinking about how, in the 2011 WTTCs, he beat Oh Sang Eun 11-2, 11-2, 11-5, 11-7, and I think the match was under 19 min long. There is no question he tries his best in every match even when he is not on.

Can anyone even say that Dima played better than Groth in his last two matches vs Ma Long?

UpSideDownCarl · Jan 29, 2016

NextLevel said:
Can anyone even say that Dima played better than Groth in his last two matches vs Ma Long?

Exactly. 100% on. Same with the comment on getting him rattled early.

It is not often that Ma Long has been ahead in a match and lost. I can think of a few matches. Wang Hao did it to him in 2011 WTTC Semi Finals. Timo Boll did it to him in the a World Team match. I think that was 2010. But I am too lazy to look. But it is very rare that ML is up and loses.

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Giangt · Jan 29, 2016

NextLevel said:
People don't get it (not speaking to you, Giangt). JG made the main draw of the German Open. Look at Par Gerrell's blog if you don't see that his loss to Ma Long doesn't mean anything.

Ma Long is simply an excellent frontrunner like Federer in his prime. You have to shake him early or you will get the confident version of Ma Long. But once you sow some seeds of doubt, Ma Long's level drops. But you have to do it early. OR when you do it late, you have to sustain it long enough to make him start going back in time. See his matches vs Oshima or even his last match vs. Freitas if you want a good example.

I do agree with on this. ML weakness will always be his mental strength, but over the last year period he has improved finding solutions at critical points in a match. Still IMO ZJK will always be better in those aspects.

NextLevel · Jan 29, 2016

Giangt said:
I do agree with on this. ML weakness will always be his mental strength, but over the last year period he has improved finding solutions at critical points in a match. Still IMO ZJK will always be better in those aspects.

I honestly don't know if ZJK is clearly better. It is partly the standards that Ma Long has to live up to that cause that impression, IMO. When you win everywhere else but not the big ones, people call you a choker. But ZJK wasn't winning anywhere else but the big ones and he became a big game player. If Ma Long maybe dropped his winning rate elsewhere, people would just have called him one of the guys, because he was making the semis or finals at the big ones too!

TableTennisDaily · Jan 30, 2016

Last 16: Men's Singles Draw

Ma Long vs Koki Niwa
Masaki Yoshida vs Marcos Freitas
Fang Bo vs Wang Zengyi
Wong Chun Ting vs Zhang Jike

Timo Boll vs Andrej Gacina
Li Ping vs Vladimir Samsonov
Chuang Chih Yuan vs Yan An
Tang Peng vs Dimitrij Ovtcharov

UpSideDownCarl · Jan 30, 2016

I think Giang's important quote was:

Giangt said:
Still IMO ZJK will always be better in those aspects.

I am not sure he is saying ZJK is better than ML. I think he is saying ZJK has a better mental composure than ML.

I think the hardest thing to tell about ZJK is, I don't think he plays hard or takes his opponents seriously in most of the tournaments he enters. I actually think he plays worse than he can and throws matches on purpose because he wants people to underrate him and think he is not as good as he is or, at this point, that he is washed up and has lost it. And then something like the China Trials happens and after 7-8 months of him playing as if he doesn't even belong in the top 10, he plays for real in an even that matters to him.

I could be wrong and I seriously dislike the attitude that goes along with all that stuff. But I get the sense that he is doing stuff like that all the time.

I mean, nobody thought he had a chance in 2013 and everyone thought he had been playing bad for months. And when he was playing Patrick Baum in their match in the 2013 WTTC, he looked terrible and was that close to going down 2-0 against him before he decided to wake up and play.

So, to me, either he has some serious psychological issues or he only shows up to play once in a while.

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ttmonster · Jan 30, 2016

I think its a mixture of two things Carl, the one you mentioned coupled with his requirement to have to protect his body and ensure longevity. He has some serious long standing injuries , or a body prone to breaking down similar to Michael Maze and he does not want to go down that unfortunate path that Maze has. Whatever it is , comparing ZJK and Ma Long is almost like comparing Bjon Borg and Jimmy Connors in that order

, at least this point in their careers . Only posterity will tell and/or if one of them comes out with a tell tale autobiography

UpSideDownCarl said:
I think Giang's important quote was:

I am not sure he is saying ZJK is better than ML. I think he is saying ZJK has a better mental composure than ML.

I think the hardest thing to tell about ZJK is, I don't think he plays hard or takes his opponents seriously in most of the tournaments he enters. I actually think he plays worse than he can and throws matches on purpose because he wants people to underrate him and think he is not as good as he is or, at this point, that he is washed up and has lost it. And then something like the China Trials happens and after 7-8 months of him playing as if he doesn't even belong in the top 10, he plays for real in an even that matters to him.

I could be wrong and I seriously dislike the attitude that goes along with all that stuff. But I get the sense that he is doing stuff like that all the time.

I mean, nobody thought he had a chance in 2013 and everyone thought he had been playing bad for months. And when he was playing Patrick Baum in their match in the 2013 WTTC, he looked terrible and was that close to going down 2-0 against him before he decided to wake up and play.

So, to me, either he has some serious psychological issues or he only shows up to play once in a while.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

NextLevel · Jan 30, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
I think Giang's important quote was:

I am not sure he is saying ZJK is better than ML. I think he is saying ZJK has a better mental composure than ML.

I think the hardest thing to tell about ZJK is, I don't think he plays hard or takes his opponents seriously in most of the tournaments he enters. I actually think he plays worse than he can and throws matches on purpose because he wants people to underrate him and think he is not as good as he is or, at this point, that he is washed up and has lost it. And then something like the China Trials happens and after 7-8 months of him playing as if he doesn't even belong in the top 10, he plays for real in an even that matters to him.

I could be wrong and I seriously dislike the attitude that goes along with all that stuff. But I get the sense that he is doing stuff like that all the time.

I mean, nobody thought he had a chance in 2013 and everyone thought he had been playing bad for months. And when he was playing Patrick Baum in their match in the 2013 WTTC, he looked terrible and was that close to going down 2-0 against him before he decided to wake up and play.

So, to me, either he has some serious psychological issues or he only shows up to play once in a while.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

I got what he was saying, I was saying that as much as we all called Ma Long a choker and there is evidence of a damaged mental game, it was his consistency elsewhere that brought that upon him. WLQ for example never won a World cup or made an Olympic singles final. But no one would call him a choker. 3 WTTCs, and losing to the winner on three other occasions eliminates that. If Wang Hao was still playing, it is still possible that ML would still be a choker...

ZJK loses enough that he doesn't have to bear any pressure. So no one calls him a choker. He is a big game player.

UpSideDownCarl · Jan 30, 2016

NextLevel said:
I got what he was saying, I was saying that as much as we all called Ma Long a choker and there is evidence of a damaged mental game, it was his consistency elsewhere that brought that upon him. WLQ for example never won a World cup or made an Olympic singles final. But no one would call him a choker. 3 WTTCs, and losing to the winner on three other occasions eliminates that. If Wang Hao was still playing, it is still possible that ML would still be a choker...

ZJK loses enough that he doesn't have to bear any pressure. So no one calls him a choker. He is a big game player.

It is true. You have a point. But, there are times when, as ML is losing, he falls apart mentally. Like when ML lost to Koki Niwa in the Trials for 2012 Olympic 3 spot, he looked like he fell apart when he was down and Koki kept fighting. Maybe other players don't pull that match out either but, most players don't look like they are going to get ready to fall apart emotionally when they are getting knocked around.

NextLevel · Jan 30, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
It is true. You have a point. But, there are times when, as ML is losing, he falls apart mentally. Like when ML lost to Koki Niwa in the Trials for 2012 Olympic 3 spot, he looked like he fell apart when he was down and Koki kept fighting. Maybe other players don't pull that match out either but, most players don't look like they are going to get ready to fall apart emotionally when they are getting knocked around.

Yes, and that's because losing is a big deal to ML. So the big deal influences how he plays. Like I said, if he lost more often, we would all make a smaller deal out of it, and so would he probably.

TurboZ · Jan 30, 2016

3 different styles of penholders breaking into final 16 without Xu Xin's presence is impressive and not happening in a long time. Hope to see Yoshida Kaii go further. He was playing great in Europe lately. Also WCT was once very close to beating ZJK years ago. Too bad we did not see how he beat Kenta 4:0. But if ZJK is not in the mood then the uprising WCT might still got a chance. BTW I don't think WZY can get pass Fang Bo, yet it is always exciting to see his SP fast attack in action. Can't wait to see them all through the night!

Sali · Jan 30, 2016

TurboZ said:
3 different styles of penholders breaking into final 16 without Xu Xin's presence is impressive and not happening in a long time. Hope to see Yoshida Kaii go further. He was playing great in Europe lately. Also WCT was once very close to beating ZJK years ago. Too bad we did not see how he beat Kenta 4:0. But if ZJK is not in the mood then the uprising WCT might still got a chance. BTW I don't think WZY can get pass Fang Bo, yet it is always exciting to see his SP fast attack in action. Can't wait to see them all through the night!

I think Kaii Yoshida has the best chance for advance. Maybe because Freitas is the poorest of all these 3 opponents in my opinion. Also Kaii beat Mizutani not long ago and looks pretty solid.

JeffM · Jan 30, 2016

CCY beat Yan An 4-2
Now WCT is playing ZJK!!
So many big matches today

Tinykin · Jan 30, 2016

There are so many players that we've never heard of that have on their CV that they beat Waldner during his heydays 80's -90's. I'm not even certain if Waldner ever topped the averages in the Swedish league. So I wonder if ZJK, injuries notwithstanding, is more like that. That is, lesser tournaments are more for practice. Maybe even that TT is not his top priority and he likes to have a good time; girls, drinking, cars, boats.
ML in contrast seems to take every match very seriously as if he is on some sort of mission. So when he doesn't win, it's a catastrophe.

TT_Rogue · Jan 30, 2016

niwa was so promising when he was young but it seems that he didnt improve since 2-3 years.

Takkyu_wa_inochi · Jan 30, 2016

TT_Rogue said:
niwa was so promising when he was young but it seems that he didnt improve since 2-3 years.

i agree. Kenta MATSUDAIRA is about the same. Both lack athleticism, and although they are still young, it looks like they are already bored and lacking motivation. If JAPAN plays CHINA in KL i hope he will not be in the team.

MA Long really exterminated NIWA. I felt pity for him.

jedimasterplk · Jan 30, 2016

I think the future of Japanese TT is with players like Oshima, and another chap whose name I cant quite remember. Both extremely quick, very athletic, fast, powerful. Don't see Koki Niwa staying in or getting into that team for much longer.

German Open 2016

Who do you think will win the German Open 2016?

Ma Long

Dimitrij Ovtcharov

Zhang Jike

Timo Boll

Marcos Freitas

Chuang Chih Yuan

Fang Bo

Vladimir Samsonov

Wong Chun Ting

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