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  1. Inkognito is offline
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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    I don't think you have read Timo Boll's comments.

    "Ich will nicht behaupten, dass die chinesische Stärke allein auf den Belägen beruht. Sie haben die besten Bedingungen, die meisten Trainer, das meiste Geld. Aber es ist sicher, sie könnten manchen Ball nicht so spielen, wie sie ihn spielen, und manche Schläge hätten nicht die Qualität, die sie im Moment haben. Wenn die Chinesen einen tollen Belag entwickelt hätten, der allen überlegen ist, dann wäre das ja in Ordnung. Dann könnte ich ihn mir im Laden kaufen, oder ich könnte den Ausrüster wechseln. Aber chinesische Schläger, die gibt es nirgendwo zu kaufen und die Beläge werden noch behandelt. Sie haben da übrigens gar kein Unrechtsbewusstsein, für sie ist regelkonform, was durch die Tests kommt. Der Spieler Wang Hao hat einmal in einer Livesendung des chinesischen Fernsehens demonstriert, wie sie den Schläger präparieren. Dabei ist jede Nachbehandlung ausdrücklich verboten, eigentlich war das der Nachweis eines Betrugs. Ich dagegen bin mit einem Schläger konkurrenzfähig, der nicht nur messtechnisch regelkonform ist, sondern den Regeln zu 100 Prozent entspricht. Noch mehr: Ich spiele mit Belägen, die man im Laden kaufen kann. Da gibt es keinen Unterschied. Ich habe ein absolut reines Gewissen."


    The part in bold, I hear, translates thus:

    " But the Chinese racquets can't be bought anywhere, and the rubbers are further chemically treated. The Chinese have no sense of wrongdoing at all about this, by the way; to them, everything they do is in accordance with the rules as long as the racquet passes the tests. The player Wang Hao once demonstrated during a live broadcast on Chinese TV how they prepare the racquet. But since any post-factory treatment is explicitly forbidden, this was actually evidence of fraud.I, however, am competitive with a racquet which is not only compliant to the rules according to the test results, but it even is 100% in accordance with the rules [as they are written]. Even more, I play with rubbers that can be bought in stores. There's no difference between my rubbers and those available in the stores. I have an absolutely clean conscience."

    We are having a debate here as well:


    http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum...boll-interview
    Yeah I have seen it, and all I can say is that it most certainly don't apply for all players. Players using the same brand as him has been disqualified in tournaments before and sometimes you can even hear a louder sound from a setup that is the same as your own so what have made this possible? If Timo says the truth or not I can't say but his word don't apply for all players. A possibility could be that Timo had the opportunity to get these "better batch" rubbers but as many of us thinks, he is a fair play guy (I don't think he boost). Like I said before, my friend who had a sweet sponsor contract wanted the used rubbers back, nothing the person ever had asked for before when the person had an another sponsor so yes I personally think there are "better batch" rubbers and also they just felt much better then the ones I could get from a table tennis store. And again, this was before the new ball came because I changed rubber when that happend so it could also be outdated. But I still think there are something available for the pros which isn't available for us mortals

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    #42
    Timo Boll has special tenergy with more boost than commercial version.

    Few years ago, in a video's interview with Adrien Mattenet, he spoke about material ; and he said Butterfly sent him few versions of tenergy with different level of boost. He could test and choose version he wanted to play.

    He said version used by Timo Boll was too fast for him, so he chose a middle version.

    Mattenet didn't spoke about boost but it was about same rubber with different level of speed (level 1 to 5), like boost.

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    #43
    Timo is playing with really super hard selected Tenergys similair to chinese rubbers (forehand).You really need super human arm speed to use them to full potential. Even most professional players can´t play those.

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    #44
    So in other word, people are saying that Boll is lying.

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    #45
    So, if your a sponsored Tenergy Pro, your rubber is boosted at the factory, you just change it as needed with more free factory replacements, it is legal.

    If you get Hurricane rubber from factory, then boost it to your liking, it is illegal.

    Both methods use the same boosting but one is legal and one is illegal.

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    #46
    Timo Boll and Samsonov are probably the most gentlemen in table tennis currently. And if anyone is saying that Timo boosts, look at his shot speed,they are not that fast. But look at his position and timing, that is perfect. Now look at chinese. I am not saying that they are using illegal rubbers,but yes, they are just playing shots at whole other level. You see, there is a thing known as timing. A shot may be early hit, perfect hit, or late hit. And these shots are visible in European players(timo and samsonov, dima too). But for chinese, I mean, any shot is perfect hit. The ball always goes the way they want. I will agree that their gameplay is better, there is no other thought, but the equipment advantage is there. And due to this marginal advantage, europeans are not playing much and not many new kids are coming in picture nowadays like timo boll and many others came. Hence, all weight of defeating chinese has come on the shoulders of Timo and Dima. Samsonov looks mild in temper,hence I don't believe he could win against chinese now,also due to his age.
    What can happen is that the newly introduced poly balls should be taken back. But I don't see that happen before Olympics, probably because of sponsorship and they must have got the balls ready, hence economically would be a hassle and lot more stuff.
    The way things are going right now, it seems that in some years, table tennis will be like basketball in usa equalling tt in china. No can touch them. And people will be so discouraged that ,god forbid, it may happen like American football in usa equalling tt in china, only they play, no one else.

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    #47
    Tenergy is not tacky, so less spin and control compared to Hurricane, assuming both are boosted the same. Hurricane gets more spin and control with longer dwell time due to being very tacky, but the player's technique needs to be more active.

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    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Loopadoop
    So, if your a sponsored Tenergy Pro, your rubber is boosted at the factory, you just change it as needed with more free factory replacements, it is legal.

    If you get Hurricane rubber from factory, then boost it to your liking, it is illegal.

    Both methods use the same boosting but one is legal and one is illegal.

    The key thing is that if the boosting of Hurricane came with the rubber in packaged, then Timo would be able to purchase it and use it like the Chinese do. He currently cannot.

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    #49
    I personally believe that Timo Boll doesn't boost or have his rubbers chemically altered before or after they are given to him, what I believe that happens is either these two things:

    1 - Timo has specifically made rubbers for him in a certain hardness for the forehand and backhand to suit his game most.

    2 - If Timo does use the same sheets as the normal T05 he gets the middle cut ones that aren't boosted or altered but are just better quality.

    At the end of the day I can speak from experience - last year I won a TTD competition which was Ryu Seung Min Personal T05 signed I compared it to a normal T05 and it had a harder sponge, low arc and abit quicker. I started to research this and I found an interview with RSM and he said that his T05 is different from the shop bought ones and has been designed to his specific game, now this doesn't mean he had it boosted but it means that it is possible to have them made to your specifics.


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    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Pricey 11
    I personally believe that Timo Boll doesn't boost or have his rubbers chemically altered before or after they are given to him, what I believe that happens is either these two things:

    1 - Timo has specifically made rubbers for him in a certain hardness for the forehand and backhand to suit his game most.

    2 - If Timo does use the same sheets as the normal T05 he gets the middle cut ones that aren't boosted or altered but are just better quality.

    At the end of the day I can speak from experience - last year I won a TTD competition which was Ryu Seung Min Personal T05 signed I compared it to a normal T05 and it had a harder sponge, low arc and abit quicker. I started to research this and I found an interview with RSM and he said that his T05 is different from the shop bought ones and has been designed to his specific game, now this doesn't mean he had it boosted but it means that it is possible to have them made to your specifics.


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    Like I said, IMO, this makes Timo a liar or at least, someone hiding the complete truth, unless his version is commercially available. I am not a fan of pros using things that are not available to everyone commercially other than blade.
    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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    #51
    Quote Originally Posted by TTHopeful
    Surely Timo Boll is boosting? His bat sounds very boosted
    He does not boost his own rubbers but they are the best quality from manufacturer and believe they come pre boosted (sort of) under manufacturer

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    Last edited by RIPPER; 02-05-2016 at 11:30 AM.

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    #52
    I dont like this shitty b oosting.Its unfair and why should i cheat if someone is better than me.I have played with tenergy,tibhar rubbers for many years.I tried chinnese DHS skyline 3 rubbers and its so hard ,cant even play with it ,too slow.The sponge is very hard,i had feeling like im playing with brick.
    WHY THEY MAKING DIFERENT BETWEEN EQUIPMENTS (I MEAN BOOST AND SHITS)?

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    #53
    "Illegal" boosting is not even a problem. The whole speed glue ban was done for the companies to sell more rubbers.

    Sending the rubber for control is plain unnecessary because ITTF can easily adjust the rules if they want to but they dont. The regulation clearly allows rubber & sponge thickness up to 4mm which is like saying ok you can boost but do not overdo it. If they want to change things are pretty simple, no rubber thickness will be allowed over 2.5mm and voila, everybody will stop boosting.

    But they dont want to do that for various reasons I suppose, maybe the chinese will boycot the new system or all of the top players around the world and form their own tournaments withouth the ITTF sanction which is not so difficult to achieve. Ittf needs the top players, the top players dont need ITTF. So its kinda a situation of "you gimme this i give you that" plain simple

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    #54
    Regarding special rubber provided to Butterfly Pros, they aren't boosted but are specified. By specified it means that they request it in certain hardness and weight.

    Manufacturing process for a rubber is dictated by the thickness of the sponge as it is very hard to produce the same thickness consistantly. After that, they choose a top sheet in various thickness so that the rubber does not exceed 4mm in total. Top sheet is a lot heavier than sponge so for Tenergy's case, there'll be about +-5g weight difference in an uncut sheet. Thicker and heavier sheet = slightly faster.

    As we all know, it's never about using the fastest customization so all they're doing is requesting for consistancy(same weight, same hardness, same speed, same feelings). That's not to deny the pro version of the Chinese rubbers as their sheet and sponge is too hard without the application of the booster/speed glue.

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    #55
    It is entertaining to hear people arguing about something no one knows for sure. Or, more accurately, that, for sure, no one knows about.

    Funny how many different theories about the pros rubbers there seems to be.


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    #56
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    It is entertaining to hear people arguing about something no one knows for sure. Or, more accurately, that, for sure, no one knows about.

    Funny how many different theories about the pros rubbers there seems to be.


    Sent from Deep Space by Abacus
    Yeap, the only thing I am 100% sure about cause I saw it with my own eyes is that kreanga's unpacked rubber a few years ago was "floating" into a gelly thingy which I suppose is something like a chemical substance to maintain specific characteristics. After all the "tension" rubbers from butterfly are created through chemical process. Off course Im not 100 % sure about this, after all top players have boosted rubbers straight from the company I believe which is allowed by the regulations (one cannot apply chemicals onto the rubber after it is opened which is something like saying "manufacturers can put everthinh they want before packaging").

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    #57
    reference: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/sport/meh...-14043588.html

    Full Interview translation:

    Table tennis star Timo Boll "80 percent are cheating"

    Hard or soft, round or like an egg: Table tennis player Timo Boll speaks in FAZ.NET interview about the pitfalls of new plastic balls, chemically treated rubbers - and the tricks of the unbeatable Chinese.

    Many players are complaining about the new table tennis balls made of plastic. How much did they change the game?

    I am one of the players,who doesn t think the change is really extrem.Form my point of view,the problem is mainly that there are many different types of balls. Although they are all made of plastic, they have rather different properties.Like the bounce on the table,as well as how the ball is catapulted out of the bat and the grip of the ball on the table.Unlike before there are now immense differences.
    Many have adjustment problems. Especially when in the week before the game,there is no opportunity to train with the competition balls.

    With how many different balls from different manufacturers did you play yet?

    I train when the game takes place on Fridays or Sundays, the whole week with the same balls. So you need a certain arsenal of balls. There are three balls, which are the best by far: Butterfly, Joola and Nittaku. The three also differ in each case a bit, but they are all hard, really round, and it's just fun to play with them. Then there are the bad balls from other manufacturers, which are probably from the same production factory. They are soft, round like eggs. But those are mainly played.

    How so?

    There supplier contracts with the organizers of tournaments and championships. And who gives the best deal is considered.
    And you actually have every ball of each brand in order to train with them?
    I really got any ball lying in my closet.
    How do you organize this? Do you buy or order them?

    From my equipment provider Butterfly it is no problem of cause, the other ones I just pick up somewhere or just ask the other companys if I could have a box.
    What makes a ball into a hard ball and what to a soft?

    I have many years of experience with the previous celluloid balls. And when you hit the ball in a certain angle or with a specific rotation or a certain hardness, then you expect a certain reaction of the ball, it jumps in a certain manner of the racket. With hard plastic this is also almost always the case. The soft balls fail. Balls with heavy spin don´t bounce properly.Usually you can return a ball, which was hit hard,with a hard stroke but those balls don t accelerate problerly and don t even fly over the net. The quality of the game suffers in a sustainable manner, because the players are feeling insecure. Some are suffering a serious blow. The rallies have gotten worse on average.

    Worse product, poorer market opportunities.Must the table tennis associations react to this and no longer take the balls that get the most financial gain and secure the quality of the sport?

    I understand that the companys need a certain amount of time in order to adjust to plastic. We players have accepted that. Nothing changed for a few months, time and time again, we are told it is impossible to do better than this.

    But there are the counterexamples.

    Naturally. Butterfly for example works with a company together, which manufactures the balls of deodorant-rollers and thus they ensure that the balls are really round. So it is possible to do better. I don't understand why the Table Tennis Companys don't pull the plug, when they are receiving low quality products for their money.


    And the table tennis Associations that organize championships and tournaments, should not take the balls, which bring the most money,but rather the best ones?

    We players would be happy about that.

    In return the players forego their prize money?

    There is barely any prize money anyway. There are barely any sponsors, the organizers save on the equipment and increase the prices for hotels and meals to earn some money by the players. Fortunately, many athletes have their own supplier contracts that guarantee them the expenses for two, three World Ranking Tournaments. Or the National Association pays the costs. But as before, that many traveled at their own risk around the world, to play and to collect world ranking points, it is no longer. Since you would have to take in hand a lot of money.In the Old times many players traveled around the world at their own riskto play and collect world ranking points,but it is not like that anymore.Now you would need a lot of money for that.
    Is the game changing,because of the plastic ball?

    there is less spin in the game, but not as extreme as some may expected. Some believed that I would face some difficulties, because I play with a lot of rotation and spin. But it is going quit well. I have to work more with my body during stroking, to speed up the ball, but the difference is not extrem. Many poeple suggest, there are a lot of injured players now , because they have to invest so much in every stroke, since the introduction of the plastic ball. But I always invested the maximum in each stroke. And more is impossible. Maybe the others finally understood that you simply always use the maximum power in every stroke.I don´t feel more burdened. The rallys aren´t longer.

    In addition to the balls the tubbers are critical to the quality of the game. It is said that the outstanding Chinese have an advantage in this area. How can that be?

    The rubbers are an extreme advantage for the Chinese.

    This is difficult to understand for an outsider. It ultimately involves only a piece of rubber. If you take a look at what complicated technologies are copied in Formula 1 , then you would think the competitors are gonna catch up with any advantage.

    The rubber technology is a real science. Naturally there are rules. But the measurement and control procedures can´t reliable check compliance with the rules.

    The rackets, which were previously controlled in the test were all rule compliant. But 80 percent - so my estimate - still did not meet the rules.In order to prove this, the Rubber has to be removed from the racket and sent to the lab. That's what I am encouraging since long ago. But the International Association considers this unreasonable. No players pays for his equipment , and it also means no effort to glue the rubber again. Anyone who adheres to the rules,is at a clear disadvantage.

    Which infringement is committed?

    The Rubbers are treated with chemicals to increase the catapult effect when hitting. This apllies not only for the Chinese players, but for Europeans and other Asians to

    How do you know that?

    I have played with the material of players who have treated their rubbers. There was a certain difference. And then I've tested the racket of a colleague in China . (Note .: Boll played repeatedly for Chinese clubs in the local league). Let me put it this way: If the chinese play a topspin with my racket and their usualy technique, then the ball stays on their on half of the table.

    Then the secret is revealed,how the unbeatable Chinese can be defeated:you steal their rackets or make working controls .

    I do not suggest that the Chinese strength is based solely on the rubbers. They have the best conditions, most coaches, the most money.
    But it is certain that they could not play some ball the way they play it, and some strokes would not have the same quality that they have at the moment. If the Chinese had developed a great rubber that is superior to all others, that would be fine. Then I could buy it in the store, or I could change the supplier. You can´t buy Chinese rackets anywhere and the rubbers are treated to.They have no sense of wrongdoing, for them what goes through the tests conforms to the rules. The player Wang Hao ones demonstrated in a live broadcast of the Chinese television, how they prepare the racket. Each treatment is expressly prohibited, actually that was the detection of fraud. On the other hand I am competitive with my racket,which is not only metrological rule compliant, but also 100 percent corresponds to the rules.Even more: I play with rubbersthat you can buy at the store. Since there is no difference. I have an absolutely clean conscience.

    And are you a do-gooder who sticks to the rules, even if all other cheat?

    I am just like this.My leitmotiv is indeed well known.Table tennis is my love and you shouldn t cheat on your love.An example: I once played against an opponent who drove me almost insane because he made only incorrect service by hiding the ball with his body. Of course, the referee did not notice anything. I was really upset but said nothing. It so happened that we played against each other again next weekend. So I studied on a serve the whole week , which was even meaner and wrong. And what happened when we encountered one another? I have the bonus is not used, I just could not.I didn´t use the serve because, I just simply couldn´t do it.

    Holy shit I just noticed this beast took me 5 h I hope you can enjoy and understand.Going to bed now have a great day!

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    Last edited by MaLongPower; 02-17-2016 at 12:34 AM.
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    #58
    Thanks ...

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    #59
    They could implement a rule like they used to have in the WRC that any equipment used need to be sold to the public to. So no Blue sponge H3 or W997 bats that are only give to the Chines team.

    But what rly needs to be done about ITTF is for the top countries to leave and start a new TT association to get rid of all the crappy rules that ITTF have come up with over the years and just start fresh.

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    #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Old School

    But what rly needs to be done about ITTF is for the top countries to leave and start a new TT association to get rid of all the crappy rules that ITTF have come up with over the years and just start fresh.

    I'm not so sure, if that would be the best solution.

    I don't want tabletennis to end up like boxing with four or more organizations and associations.
    We would end up having 3 different world champs.
    No, i think people should get to the table and find solutions that the majority of players would find useful.
    For example using the lighting from the company that pays most is IMHO alright, but using balls from the company that pays most is not that good.
    We're already facing this situation nowadays.
    It should be done for the benefits and also the future of the sport and not for financial side of it.
    Last edited by Suga D; 02-16-2016 at 05:50 PM.

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