Croatian player loses his sh#t

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There were two aspects to the thread actually, starting with the first video.

The first was that this poor young guy was completely unable to cope with what the old chopper was throwing at him for a variety of reasons (which including bad timing, lazy footwork contributing to his mistiming, didn't see that the older guy was varying the spin quite a great deal, never attempted to attack the choppers body, failed to realize that this particular defender never attacks so was extremely impatient tactically, to name just a few things). I can see those mistakes, not because I'm some sort of super high-level player, but because I've made all of them against choppers who are better than they first appear and who are very good at extreme spin variation. I can't know for sure without knowing the players or talking to them, but my impression watching this is that the young guy completely underestimated the level of the older guy, who like I said earlier, probably beats guys like this all the time. It is very possible that he was throwing some of those chops kind of high to bait this young guy who does have a bunch of technical limitations like just about anyone who is not a professional player. (There are two coaches in my city who are high-level defenders, I have played with them both quite a bit, one for many years, so I have seen many times firsthand how things aren't always what they appear. Nobody would underestimate those two coaches in my city, but then again, they are both about 30, instead of older, and young people almost always underestimate older players).

The second was the fact that the young guy went completely out of his mind because of the frustration which is the thing that probably led the OP to post the video. I know what that feels like too. It can be pretty hilarious --- when it happens to somebody else. It seems like both of these things were worth talking about, so I don't think I hijacked the thread by showing it happening in professional players too.

Getting really mad never helps you play better. Finding zen in matches is more important for me personally than any technical thing.
 
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It seems like both of these things were worth talking about, so I don't think I hijacked the thread by showing it happening in professional players too.

Getting really mad never helps you play better. Finding zen in matches is more important for me personally than any technical thing.

And given the title of the thread, I would say, the discussion on technique and defender vs looper was not the intended subject matter but, "Croatian player loses his sh#t" actually was the intended subject matter. :)

So, what Baal did was closer to unhijacking the thread than to hijacking it. And it wasn't a bad change of directions from what could be an endless and pointless discussion on who has better technique.
 
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It is dicey to compare looping technique to chopping technique. Both take technique and technical skill. But the techniques are different.

Talking about the looping technique of someone who is chopping and not looping makes no sense. But I guarantee that the looper's chopping technique is not as good as the chopper's chopping technique.

And, for sure, the technique of the chopper, in his chop stroke is pretty impressive. It is not easy to do that. He is adding spin, taking away spin and giving back spin without adding or taking away. That is stuff that takes a high level of skill.

I am entertained right now imagining what our friend unknown_crazy-person_sj would be saying about aspect ratio, speed glue, RoboNastis....LOL.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

But TTGeorgeFrenzy, why do you think you were the only one who talked about inferior technique. Someone even mentioned inferior surfaces and it wasn't you.

Your comments when you reassessed the play of each player were much more balanced. Even if I think the subject of what people mean by technique may need to be addressed. I think there are a few different definitions floating around out there in this thread for what the word "technique" is being used to mean. And it seems to me that the technique to chop is not being discussed by a few. And it is not easy to skillfully chop a heavy loop: I would say it does take some technique.

Now can we please return to the REAL subject of RoboNastis and which pips out, Penhold World Champion DTop's video was talking about and whether Xu Xin is really planning on switching to banned pips!!!


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Thanks Carl, what exactly do you mean by inferior surfaces? :S Dont quite understand that. Im afraid Im not accurate enough when Im expressing myself in English or maybe people see what they want to see. I never said that the defender has bad or poor technique.

As I explained to nextlevel, I like to think myself as a scholar coach and optimal technique with minimum effort is always something I focus on. So the first thing I noticed in the match was that the attacker's quality of loop was better than the defenders chop quality. BUT, the defender understood the game better and his personality is suiting better to play TT.

I didnt degrade or belittle him , I didnt said that pips should be banned, nor did I think that the attacker is in fact better im not a kind of racist towards pips rofl, people all over the post answer to me like I hate pips players its hilarious :D

To sum it up, when Im not in a balanced psychological mood or dont have the patience and relaxed state of mind needed to play against pips I really hate it but this does not mean that I dont appreciate the value of players like these.

Gee just reading to what i have just written makes me feel awkward. maybe I should i apologize next time for expressing myself lol :p
 
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And Shuki, you are saying the guy whose feet are in the wrong place, who keeps misreading the spin on the ball, who keeps messing up, is the guy who is exerting less physical energy but focusing harder and you are describing THAT, as MORE EFFORT???? And that is BETTER TECHNIQUE???? Sorry, but, I think I forgot to step into the backwards universe. Did I miss something here?

I think I switched which side of the debate I was on a couple times :)
 
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One thing for sure, very few people are born with the instincts and skills to play against a style they almost never see. Looking at the video of the first post, my guess is that is part of what is going on. When that happens to almost anyone, technical and mental flaws are systematically exposed. And for anyone less than professional level, there are going to be a lot of them.

I've been there.

The only thing I might have going for me is I actually play against that style from time to time.
 
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I found where I switched sides. I knew I disagreed with ttfrenzy when he said this:

So when I say the attacker is better in terms of technique I still believe it , but technique alone does not win the games does it ?


Then Izra had the rational response of this:


IMO a player that puts in LESS physical effort to achieve the same result is the one with superior technique.


But i thought it was ttFrenzy's response, not izra. And knowing I disagreed frenzy's side got me confused
=[
 
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dude its not even funny

I'm curious too. what makes his quality of chop not as good as the quality of loop?

Quality of a shot isn't just how low or spinny the ball is. It has to do with placement and VARIATION in the spin. I see the chopper doing better placement and more variation with his spin. So I'd like to know how the looper has a better quality loop than the choppers quality of chop too..
 
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Thanks Carl, what exactly do you mean by inferior surfaces? :S Dont quite understand that. Im afraid Im not accurate enough when Im expressing myself in English or maybe people see what they want to see. I never said that the defender has bad or poor technique.

As I explained to nextlevel, I like to think myself as a scholar coach and optimal technique with minimum effort is always something I focus on. So the first thing I noticed in the match was that the attacker's quality of loop was better than the defenders chop quality. BUT, the defender understood the game better and his personality is suiting better to play TT.

I didnt degrade or belittle him , I didnt said that pips should be banned, nor did I think that the attacker is in fact better im not a kind of racist towards pips rofl, people all over the post answer to me like I hate pips players its hilarious :D

To sum it up, when Im not in a balanced psychological mood or dont have the patience and relaxed state of mind needed to play against pips I really hate it but this does not mean that I dont appreciate the value of players like these.

Gee just reading to what i have just written makes me feel awkward. maybe I should i apologize next time for expressing myself lol :p

See, I think part of what is going on here has to do with a language barrier.

1) NOBODY SAID YOU SAID anything about the term "inferior surface". In fact, if you read what I said, I explicitly stated that you were not the only person saying the chopper was the worse player. I stand by that. And I referred to someone who specifically stated that PIPS ARE AN "INFERIOR SURFACE". Since you did not say that, I MUST BE REFERRING TO SOMEONE ELSE. But on this subject, one thing I would say TTFrenzy, is that, you seem to think everyone is talking to you. Some maybe. But others may have been referring to what someone else said. :) Again SOMEONE ELSE did in fact refer to pips as an inferior surface and I was clear that it was not you. That was the purpose of that part of my post. That the people responding to people saying the looper had better technique were NOT ONLY RESPONDING TO THINGS YOU SAID. Okay. So, no more narcism. When someone says something you have to try and figure out if they meant you or someone else rather than being defensive. You are a good guy.

2) I don't think anyone said you belittled him. I could be wrong, but I don't see that. But someone did say pips were an inferior surface and that is a bit of a dis. So, it could be that.

3) But I do think a good answer to Izra's question would be interesting.

--You said: "So the first thing I noticed in the match was that the attacker's quality of loop was better than the defenders chop quality."

--And Izra asked: "how did you get this impression?"

I would have like to hear the answer to that. Because, to my eyes, it is clear that the opposite is actually the case. It is not just the chopper's understanding of the game is better. Despite his age and the restrictions in mobility that often occur for someone of that age, his chopping technique, to me at least, looks higher level than the looper's technique. I could be wrong. But that is how it looks to me.
 
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I'm curious too. what makes his quality of chop not as good as the quality of loop?

Quality of a shot isn't just how low or spinny the ball is. It has to do with placement and VARIATION in the spin. I see the chopper doing better placement and more variation with his spin. So I'd like to know how the looper has a better quality loop than the choppers quality of chop too..

What i meant was produced arc/spin of the looper is bigger than produced arc/spin of the chopper, especially when he choped with the FH side with inverted as I mentioned earlier. I corrected my self about the bh chop

placement for me is considered more as a strategy/tactic feature although it is connected to technique of course at some extent.

dont get excited over terminology, u understand different things for the words quality than me , and thats ok but dont judge the post with your criteria :p
 
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lol carl no need for caps lock, i wasnt reffering to you either about what I thought that people thought that I said :p

ok I just read what i wrote and its hilarious

Aw man, I like caps. They are fun. In fact I sometimes LOVE caps. :)
 
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What i meant was produced arc/spin of the looper is bigger than produced arc/spin of the chopper, especially when he choped with the FH side with inverted as I mentioned earlier. I corrected my self about the bh chop

placement for me is considered more as a strategy/tactic feature although it is connected to technique of course at some extent.

dont get excited over terminology, u understand different things for the words quality than me , and thats ok but dont judge the post with your criteria :p

If you're perceiving from the video that the looper has more spin that's fine. But he also has less control of his loops than the chopper has on his chops. I'm trying to understand your definition of quality opposed to my criteria. Surely the looper's quality of loop can't be better quality if he can't hit the table with it
 
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If you're perceiving from the video that the looper has more spin that's fine. But he also has less control of his loops than the chopper has on his chops. I'm trying to understand your definition of quality opposed to my criteria. Surely the looper's quality of loop can't be better quality if he can't hit the table with it

yes but im separating the technique from psychology to understand it better. if a player is in a bad day this does not mean his technique is crappy or low level. It is directly affected by psychology and the attacker has totally lost his composure and mindset. When you are anxious or nervous or pissed of your muscles get tense and you dont move freely.

The attacker, either misread the spin or he was too eager too attack every ball instead of waiting for the right ball to do it
 
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yes but im separating the technique from psychology to understand it better. if a player is in a bad day this does not mean his technique is crappy or low level

Nobody is saying the attacker has bad technique or is low level. Just that the chopper's is better from the video clip we've been given.
 
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Nobody is saying the attacker has bad technique or is low level. Just that the chopper's is better from the video clip we've been given.


aaaand I totally agree with that ! :p didnt said otherwise, it was hilarious how his mustache was laughing at the other guy at certain lucky points
 
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I actually think some of the chopper's chops look like they have more spin than the loops, some of them look dead. Now creating a dead chop off of a fairly heavy loop requires a lot of technique.

If you are looping back a chop that is heavy it requires decent technique too. But, if you are actually looping back a chop and not doing the SLAPADELIC, you are going to get a lot of spin.

The interesting part to me is the chopper's skill at varying the spin.

But I still say I have not heard why TTFrenzy has decided the looper's looping technique is higher level than the chopper's chopping technique. Or if I had, it seems to me not to fit.

Certainly they are not too far from each other in level. And certainly the looper is pretty decent. But I am still pretty impressed with the skills of that 60 year old guy. [emoji2]

uh-oh....the goon squad is chasing me again. Gotta run.


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Carl, I dont have the patience to record each and every point to backup my claims :p, truth is there are few points when the attacker performs good loops up to his standards, most of the points are unforced errors cause he is pissed or he is misjudging the situation (spin/placement of the chop)

Technique is how you perform a stroke , understanding and adjusting is another different thing. I played a very tall player once who his introduced to me by a friend as a "newbie" guy.

His backhand and serves although he played 5 months was out of this world the guy was simply gifted with natural feeling for the ball, I have never seen such a bh stroke & spin on serves even from top players in Greece.

But when it came to understanding what he is doing well, i dont need to say more
 
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aaaand I totally agree with that ! :p didnt said otherwise, it was hilarious how his mustache was laughing at the other guy at certain lucky points

Well, you actually sort of did. But, all good. This changes things.

My previous post was a parallel post to yours.

Looper = good

This day chopper = better.

Now I better get back to the secret hideout and see if I can trap that goon squad. I have the sample of lemonade for the manner in which Der_Echte has told me to take care of them this time.

RoboNastis and Spinless Cowboys, Untie, I mean, Unite!


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