UpSideDownCarl Looping In NYC's Chinatown

What Ilia said on the previous page is important, and I also recommended it.

I don't see much a point in a very bent elbow loop without dramatic forearm snap, unless you're generating topspin out of this world with the wrist snap. The Japanese are really good at that.

The distance from the wrist to the racket is so short that not even a violent elbow snap from a straight arm can generate spin as easily. It's arguable if the method actually creates more spin or not, but it's definitely "easier" and you're less prone to just slap the ball, and we have observed some serious spin from Timo Boll, Jun Mizutani etc. compared to the Chinese.

I guess the point is that if Carl's forehand is already spinny, then this will really level it up.

It's really the same thing as keeping the wrist completely relaxed when serving forehand pendulum. Actually very hard to do properly without basically throwing the racket at your opponent as it slips out of your hand, like a frisbee.

Really nice forehands Carl! Improved lots! Love the t-shirt btw

ttmonster said:

Very nice and controlled looping Carl , I love the point of contact and the weight transfer. I am curious, are you able to translate the point of contact while looping during the game or does it go back a little , I am always trying to fix that myself .. hence thought of asking ...

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Completely agree with ttmonster here, I immediately was impressed with the contact and weight transfer.I love how you finish in front of the ball, you can get good spin and speed with this technique. Keep up the great work Carl!

I have seen similar forehands in my club, especially from some of the younger players. There is one guy above TTR 1650 (USATT 2050+) who has a similar forehand as well.

It is quite logical to me that you get a lot of sidespin in your FH as well as good spin. One thing that the higher level player with a similar compact technique does well is opening up the wrist against heavy backspin. If you time the ball right and have good contact, you will get the ball over the net with good spin but against heavy backspin (against long pips or such) your percentages will go way up if you open the blade and focus on creating pure topspin. The stroke will also be (even more) spinnier. You can also see Timo Boll opening up his racket against choppers.

Control and placement has never been remotely an issue for me. I am a control player. If anyone sees me hit the white line on the BH corner when I hook the ball around the net, or sees me get the ball to slide when I go around the net, they know placement is not something I struggle with.

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To a certain degree, all of us have issues with placement. Even guys at TTR 1700+ keep scolding themselves during matches for not placing the ball properly It's not just your placement against loose balls that counts, but also against balls that you play when you are under pressure. I for one, know that I have issues playing a diagonal backhand topspin under time pressure and play the shot down the line instead. I also have issues opening up with my forehand to the extreme wide forehand side. I know that I can do so consistently to the middle and to the backhand.

My coach also tells me that I should play with more speed in my topspins as I also use only 70% of my strength in most strokes and go for spin instead. However, it's just a mindset and I would rather play a combination of topspins than a really hard topspin and make the point directly. It's also better if you want to improve in my opinion as you get to practice more and place the ball in different locations to make the point

I've never understood this mentality of not finishing the point outright when you can.

Last time I checked, we don't get style points, do we?

Archosaurus said:

I've never understood this mentality of not finishing the point outright when you can.

Last time I checked, we don't get style points, do we?

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It's nothing to do with style. Actually it's less stylish as the ball I would give you would be more conservative than a harder topspin ball . I just try to play the percentages and play a stroke that will still give me an advantage in the rally rather than a stroke that I'm not sure will land on the table.

I'll give you an example. A player was pressuring my backhand and I was steadily countering his loops. He gave me a loop with a lesser quality and I could have ripped it with my backhand or stepped around but I countered it down the line and then finished the point with my forehand.

Or all of the times when I'm not in a good position and have to push back a long push and either spin the next push or block the loop. Obviously, there have been situations where I've had to play much more aggressively to win but if I'm not pressured, then this is my natural game.

I'm not a high level player but there's a guy in my club who is and he can play 100 topspins on the table in a match situation and he almost never drive kills the ball. He's just so secure and makes no easy mistakes. From a certain level onwards, it no longer works but I'm quite sure that most of us here aren't at that level.

Emphasis on when you can.

I believe in taking any and all >51% chances to end the point outright. The less % my opponent is likely to lose to me in a consistency game, the more likely I am to try to play those percentages and end the point there.

I'm not too high level, but people murder me if I just keep looping at them and don't play every return with heart.

Can you please post some videos of your matches to illustrate the point you are making. I am sure again somethings are getting lost through translation.

Archosaurus said:

Emphasis on when you can.

I believe in taking any and all >51% chances to end the point outright. The less % my opponent is likely to lose to me in a consistency game, the more likely I am to try to play those percentages and end the point there.

I'm not too high level, but people murder me if I just keep looping at them and don't play every return with heart.

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UpSideDownCarl said:

I thought you might like that shirt. Haha. I wonder where I got it from. Hahaha.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

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Haha keep up the great work Carl! 6000 posts now, you have more than me! Arg!

Looking forward to playing table tennis against you one day! It will happen! Nice forehands!

Carl, I know space considerations made it difficult but a view from behind is helpful as well. It would also make your grip more plainly visible. A camera on the right side is better than one on the left side because it is closer to your racket arm.

I have made some changes to my grip to improve my blocking and transition speed at the table. But my forehand swing concept is closer to yours with corkscrew topspin because it simplifies the looping and countering process to come round the side of the ball with spin avoidance. The main thing though is that because my grip is truly neutral, I can switch into fades and other things at will even as I primarily hook my forehand strokes. I guess the muscle memory of my changes is not in vain.

I played a tournament today and made some major advances in transition speed, but this video a while back was the beginning of the thought process. Again, this is mostly about the arm. I still have crappy knees whether I wear braces or not. You can see that even as I hook the ball, my grip is relaxed on the backswing so I still get whip. It's not like Mengel but it allows me to do other strokes easily. I show my looping concept at a couple of points in the video with shadows to the camera of my wrist action on contact.

One thing I never noticed anyone say is why your basic hitting stance is not open. it is ALMOST like you are in a position to favor the BH. You are right handed player and your right foot is almost even with your left foot. This preventing you from using more leg and waist. it is possible to make acceptable heavy spin by squatting a little more and using the kinetic energy of the upwards explosion, but your FH will have better potential for speed and spin with a more open hitting position.

It is also possible that you have some other better efficiency of power transfer (into spin) no one has yet articulated.

I am sure I have moments like this in matches when I am close to the table, as I favor opening with my BH a little more, so take that with a pile of salt.

Do not underestimate the potential of telekinetic appliances for generating spin.

Carl, you're supposed to modify your stance in real time to be able to play a good forehand shot and a good backhand shot without sacrificing anything.

I would need to see a lot more to comment, but I am guessing that one of your habits is essentially walking to the ball instead of jumping to it. Judging by the steps you take in the videos you posted, I am probably correct, and that is causing the need to have a very neutral stance.

Try hopping to the ball instead of walking to it, and adjust your stance on every shot.

You know you're doing it right if you have a habit of rapidly stepping your right foot on the ground and hopping in place if the pace of the game gets interrupted a bit and you don't know exactly what to do. It's the so called "Chinese footwork" and concept of being light on the feet that causes anomalies like that, and also makes rapid stance changes possible.

Experiment a bit, because I'm curious to know if this can be done effectively with a body that isn't 21 - 26 years old and in top shape.

Dude, it has nothing to do with age Its a matter of working on footwork and fast foot drills like the below ...

@ttmonster

Anyone of any age who is in decent shape can make it a habit to move effectively.

I am mostly talking about widening the stance, footwork on the sides of the foot instead of on the soles etc. things that might really put a toll on an older person's knees for example. Not to mention if he has any injuries I don't know about.