Vibration Property on Butterfly Matrix

NDH · Mar 7, 2016

Hey guys,

Am I right in thinking that the "vibration" element to this is effectively "feel"?

"Reaction" looks like a straight swap for "speed" (I assume)?

With this being the case, what is the advantage to having more/less "vibration"?

I'm assuming my trusty Schlager Carbon would be at the very high end of the "vibration" scale - I really don't feel the ball much when playing (compared with the other set up's I've tried) - I appreciate rubber/sponge thickness play a part in this!

Cheers

http://www.butterflyonline.com/Templates/BladeSpecifications.pdf

kukamonga · Mar 7, 2016

so reaction property is like speed?
garaydia t5000 must be incredibly fast.

NDH · Mar 7, 2016

kukamonga said:
so reaction property is like speed?
garaydia t5000 must be incredibly fast.

Yeah my understanding is the Garaydia T5000 is now the quickest Butterfly produce!

Any one any ideas on the "vibration" axis?

Shuki · Mar 7, 2016

Yea, I was organizing a chart for a website because with butterfly's products they changed a bit and were using that table. I didn't know what to do with control section and the websites owner also was thrown off. We just threw the vibration information into the control part.

Each line on the chart represents a change in 10, so we make an educated guess when posting the speed of a blade somewhere between the marks.

NDH · Mar 7, 2016

Thanks Shuki.

What are people's opinions on the pros and cons of a blade with "less vibration" - which is actually a higher number on the butterfly chart?

The 3 Garaydia blades all have little vibration (meaning you can't feel the ball as much) - Why have they introduced this for the new ball?

Shuki · Mar 7, 2016

NDH said:
Thanks Shuki.

What are people's opinions on the pros and cons of a blade with "less vibration" - which is actually a higher number on the butterfly chart?

The 3 Garaydia blades all have little vibration (meaning you can't feel the ball as much) - Why have they introduced this for the new ball?

Vibration and control are pretty similar. Just imagine more vibration = more control. As you can feel the ball dig into your blade with more vibrations, you can get direct feedback to how much more you need to close your paddle or open it if you misread their spin. If your angle and stroke are good with a paddle that has a lot of vibration then the feedback that the vibration gives will tell you "nice shot!, heres some very comfortable vibration for you!"

Imagine someone hits a topspin stroke and you cover that ball doing your stroke and feel NO vibration. The ball flies off because you misread the spin and it was actually heavier than you thought. Unfortunately you never felt any vibration and you have to learn how much you need to adjust through some more trial and error, instead of that feeling.

NDH · Mar 7, 2016

Shuki said:
Vibration and control are pretty similar. Just imagine more vibration = more control. As you can feel the ball dig into your blade with more vibrations, you can get direct feedback to how much more you need to close your paddle or open it if you misread their spin. If your angle and stroke are good with a paddle that has a lot of vibration then the feedback that the vibration gives will tell you "nice shot!, heres some very comfortable vibration for you!"

Imagine someone hits a topspin stroke and you cover that ball doing your stroke and feel NO vibration. The ball flies off because you misread the spin and it was actually heavier than you thought. Unfortunately you never felt any vibration and you have to learn how much you need to adjust through some more trial and error, instead of that feeling.

Ok, that makes sense.

That being said, the "control" element of the blade has been given a "9" (for the Garaydia ZLC) - But on the matrix, it has a high vibration number (meaning you can't feel the ball as much).

Are there ANY benefits to this?

Shuki · Mar 7, 2016

the lower number on there is actually more control, that's correct.

Well a benefit to having the high number for them is "woah look how high this is on the spectrum! totally worth the 200$"
Newer blades with carbon tend to have less vibration but they're also more expensive. For butterfly rather than having their new blades say "This sick new blade has less control", they can say "This sick new blade has less vibration!"

Which sounds better to you? it's a marketing technique.

Also the carbon in the blades with little vibration can make a blade able to be just as fast as a fast all wood blade but be a bit lighter or softer. (thought i should add this in so I'm not just bashing on the carbon)

NDH · Mar 7, 2016

Ha, I'm well aware of the marketing tricks (along with the price hikes to go with said marketing tricks!).

Basically, I'm in the market for a slightly slower blade to improve consistency in loops and flicks from both wings.

I've pretty much had the Schlager Carbon forever, and have gotten on well with it.

I'm nervous about dropping too far away from it (say, to the Timo Boll ALC level of blade).

The Garaydia ZLC was recommended at the club I play at (but no one has one to try!).

Anyone have any suggestions?

NDH · Mar 8, 2016

I've been thinking about this - I don't think "Vibration" can be simply replaced with "control".

If you look at the matrix, you've got the Viscaria, Zhang Jike, Zhang Jike ALC, Timo Boll ALC, Time Boll Spirit as one dot.

At the same speed or "reaction", you've got Zhang Jike ZLC and Timo Boll ZLC, along with the Jun Mizutani ZLC. However, these 3 blades have a higher "vibration rating" - Which, according to butterfly, means you feel LESS vibration.

Surely that can't translate to out and out control? If so, why would anyone even consider those blades (other than the different feeling of ZLC over ALC), and to a more extreme extent, why would anyone bother with the new Garaydia series which have only slightly higher speeds (ALC and ZLC), but SIGNIFICANTLY less vibration?

kukamonga · Mar 8, 2016

NDH said:
Ha, I'm well aware of the marketing tricks (along with the price hikes to go with said marketing tricks!).

Basically, I'm in the market for a slightly slower blade to improve consistency in loops and flicks from both wings.

I've pretty much had the Schlager Carbon forever, and have gotten on well with it.

I'm nervous about dropping too far away from it (say, to the Timo Boll ALC level of blade).

The Garaydia ZLC was recommended at the club I play at (but no one has one to try!).

Anyone have any suggestions?

I used amultart for quite a long time.
it's a very nice blade, super fast.
it's like a schlager carbon but softer.
the only problem was in the short game, but I used it with tenergy on both sides.

actually, I miss my amultart, do they still sell it?

NDH · Mar 9, 2016

The Garaydia ZLC has replaced the Amultart.

Its the one I'm eyeing up next!

kukamonga · Mar 9, 2016

NDH said:
The Garaydia ZLC has replaced the Amultart.

Its the one I'm eyeing up next!

haven't looked very closely but it seemed garadya series had thinner outer layer compared to primorac carbon, schlager, amultart, etc?
or is it just my impression?

AndySmith · Mar 9, 2016

NDH said:
I've been thinking about this - I don't think "Vibration" can be simply replaced with "control".

I totally agree with you. "Control" has always been a nonsense term, purely driven by marketing and the need to sell new blades. I'm glad Butterfly have got rid of it.

Vibration in this case is probably useful in giving some idea of blade stiffness, or how linear the power delivery is.

Here is a good article about blade design. Some of the info about vibration and which properties it can be related to is useful.

https://thoughtsontabletennis.wordpress.com/2015/04/25/introduction-to-table-tennis-blade-design/

BeGo · Mar 9, 2016

Agree.

For me, control just "epidemiological prevalence", how high the probability or next user say this blade or rubber is controllable.

It is like saying, Sriver control 8 means 8 out of 10 player shall like this rubber, assuming correct play style segment.

Sent from my S5G using Tapatalk

AndySmith · Mar 10, 2016

BeGo said:
Agree.

For me, control just "epidemiological prevalence", how high the probability or next user say this blade or rubber is controllable.

It is like saying, Sriver control 8 means 8 out of 10 player shall like this rubber, assuming correct play style segment.

Sent from my S5G using Tapatalk

Ha - yes. Inversely proportional to the likelihood of immediately putting the rubber on eBay.

Lazer · Dec 23, 2022

I was interested in this too and now it all makes sense to me.

"The vibration property is the quantified value illustrating the feeling of a blade on impact by measuring and quantifying the vibration speed. A low vibration property, in general, signifies slower vibration on ball contact and denotes a blade with a softer touch. A high vibration property, in general, means faster vibration of the blade on contact with the ball and indicates a blade with a harder feel."

In other words it's very much like the measured frequency. the higher number the stiffer the blade (to simplify). This makes sense because if You look in diagram the blades follow the diagonal pretty much from lower left to upper right. You see no blades in the lower right or the upper left corners.

Cheers
L-zr

James Z · Dec 23, 2022

How is vibration measured in the Buttefly lab ?

I think I know the answer to this because SDC blades uses a similar parameter
Maybe Sergio can answer

Because the Butterfly x axis is backasswards i think

Lazer · Dec 23, 2022

No it is correct. It shows the frequency + the resistance to bending (which most of the time leads to a higher frequency). That info in conjunction with speed is what you need really.

Cheers
L-zr

brokenball · Dec 23, 2022

Shuki said:
Vibration and control are pretty similar. Just imagine more vibration = more control.

Nonsense. People have control. Any vibration you feel is energy that is in the blade and not returned to the ball and by the time you feel it the ball is long gone.

I have posted a video of my Toxic 5 hard bat. It vibrates a lot. It is also very slow and it doesn't have any control unless I control it.

BTW, I played with it this week against a double inverted player. I did well and it was fun.

Vibration Property on Butterfly Matrix

Well-Known Member

This user has been banned.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

This user has been banned.

Well-Known Member

This user has been banned.

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads