The jurassic man in action

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So I put my stone-age phone down and filmed some video of me ****ing around at the school's table with a friend, because something felt terribly off in my shots and I couldn't put my tongue on it. Today wasn't a bad day per se, but let's just say I wasn't running on the best amount of sleep and my back was killing me.

I know all the gaps in my game that show in this video. Knees not bent, not rotating enough, super high ready position etc. and they were due to fatigue. Hell, I even WALKED around instead of stepping. I'm sure Nextlevel would kick my ass at footwork based on this video. :p

There's no need to mention that, take this as my worst level. It doesn't matter much because we were just drilling long, low spin serve -> attack -> rally and not really playing seriously. We were leaving in 15min or so and had already been there for a few hours, so we didn't even have the mental capability to play a good game, so I got the idea to film it and see how terrible I look. It wasn't as bad as it felt, though, and I did one receive - > loop sequence that I liked, but apart from that, eh.

Then I found a way to transfer it via black magic means to my PC, and upload it here. So there's no excuse on that anymore: and yes, I will be posting video when I want critiques if I have something that I can't figure out. Maybe even a match-view from behind to see what kind of people I play against, although I'd really have to prop the phone on something to get a decent angle.


So, there. Footage. You may now proceed to shit on me, like you would have done even if I would have posted world class footage. :rolleyes:

Although, seriously, do point out some things you see terribly wrong. Not so much in how much I rotate or how I move my feet: that I know and can fix at an instant if I am aware of it, but things like my lack of moving back after I serve, or hesitation before a shot etc.
Just do keep in mind that we were basically only receiving with drives and doing forehand openers crosscourt, so there's deliberately not much variation.

And for the love of all that is good, don't say anything about my serve. It's supposed to be easy to read and low-spin.

Also my gravest apologies for the haircut. Perhaps the most offensive thing in the entire video. I'll get to it when I reach it on my to-do list. :rolleyes:


@Nextlevel
@Upsidedowncarl
 
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Thanks for posting Jurrasic man.

Here is what I see. I see a good kid who loves playing table tennis and is having fun. I see a kid whose mechanics aren't perfect but also are not that bad. Not that bad at all. There may be hope for you after all. [emoji2] I also see someone who is clearly WAY better than the guy he is playing against. I can see that without having to see your training partner. I see a kid who is trying in any way he can to improve his table tennis technique. But I also see a kid who isn't quite as good as he would like to be or would like to present himself as being.

Yet pretty decent in spite of the shallow stroke, lunging at balls when you misjudge where it is going, and a few other things. One thing you do pretty nicely is the turn to the FH on the BH side.

So thanks for putting a face and a hairstyle to the commentary. I am pretty confident that you will see, it will be useful to have gotten over your fear of exposure. None of us is looking to judge you.

I think I am going to have to find an old photo from Junior High School when I had that same 70s hairstyle. We could almost be brothers. Hahaha.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus
 
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@Nextlevel

Why is the timing dodgy? It's a half-long fast serve leaning towards long most of the time, and I don't want to return it at a late trajectory.
I'm not purely driving like a rallying stroke, and I'm definitely not looping, if that's what you're thinking. The video IS unclear.

If you have a suggestion for a better technique, go ahead.

@UpSideDownCarl

I have to hand it to my partner, though. The balls I lunge at don't go long: they clip the net and drop barely half long, and you have about 1-2cm between the table and ball. I'm really not gonna loop those and ding my bat, so I have to somehow lift them. I think he knows the ideal pressure on the blade and the right angle to dead block and get them to drop like that, because it's his bloody go-to move when I loop at him and he's caught close. I guess it's also a good way to force me to always stay bent and low.

Otherwise, pretty much, yeah. What are the other things?

@Der_Echte

I have to choose between haircut and food, and I think I will choose food. :rolleyes:
 

NDH

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Hey Archosaurus, thanks for sharing!

It's always hard to get a good feel for how someone plays from a snippet of video (especially when it's side on and not great quality).

I'd say your technique is pretty sound - The ball sounds very "dead" when it's hit, which is possibly the film quality - But it doesn't look like it has much spin/pop when it's hit - It sounds more like a flat hit.

Hard to know if that's due to the lower level of your partner, or because you are not trying to rip a topspin forehand.

Other than that, it's a solid basis to work from!

I'd also like to say...... Everyone has the right to pass their opinion on other people (especially those seeking "opinion" when posting on public forums).

It seems like some members think that you can only pass judgement on others if you are Ma Long himself..... Well, I haven't seen anyone on here who has the correct form to pass judgement on anyone else in that case!

I do think some of your previous comments have been misinterpreted due to the culture/language difference.

Lastly... Yes, it's much harder to take advice from someone who isn't technically as good as you (or as good as you think anyway) - But it doesn't always mean they are wrong - Sometimes people can be fantastic students of the sport, without being world class themselves - I appreciate Table Tennis is tricky in this respect, because is isn't as tactical as Soccer or American Football for example, but the principle remains.

Final advice..... Get some shorts!
 
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It seems like some members think that you can only pass judgement on others if you are Ma Long himself..... Well, I haven't seen anyone on here who has the correct form to pass judgement on anyone else in that case!

Yeah, those members need to get their head-checked. Would be curious to know who these members are...
 
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@Nextlevel

Why is the timing dodgy? It's a half-long fast serve leaning towards long most of the time, and I don't want to return it at a late trajectory.
I'm not purely driving like a rallying stroke, and I'm definitely not looping, if that's what you're thinking. The video IS unclear.

If you have a suggestion for a better technique, go ahead.

That makes sense. If you're hitting, that works. I've forgotten how to hit anything that isn't heavy topspin.:p
 

NDH

says Spin to win!
Yeah, those members need to get their head-checked. Would be curious to know who these members are...

It's not aimed at anyone specific NL - But I've seen people criticised for expressing their opinion, when they perhaps don't have perfect technique themselves.

All I'm saying is.... I haven't seen anyone on here with perfect technique - We all perhaps "know" what to do, and what not to do, but knowing, and doing, are very different things.

I know what I need to do.... Doesn't stop me from doing the opposite from time to time and thinking I'm the worlds biggest plonker!
 
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@UpSideDownCarl

I have to hand it to my partner, though. The balls I lunge at don't go long: they clip the net and drop barely half long, and you have about 1-2cm between the table and ball. I'm really not gonna loop those and ding my bat, so I have to somehow lift them. I think he knows the ideal pressure on the blade and the right angle to dead block and get them to drop like that, because it's his bloody go-to move when I loop at him and he's caught close. I guess it's also a good way to force me to always stay bent and low.

Otherwise, pretty much, yeah. What are the other things?

@Der_Echte

I have to choose between haircut and food, and I think I will choose food. :rolleyes:

A player who sees where is going is often ready for the nets and resets for them. When the ball is near the side, low and angled out, a decent level player will move in, over the table and take those at the top of the bounce. You are trying to run around the side of the table to get the ball as it is dropping past the side. It is possible but harder. Even in the middle of the field of play, you are late at seeing where the next ball is going and get set for the next shot a little later than you ought to which means you are not seeing the ball off your opponent's racket early enough. Some balls you take near the top of the bounce, some you take when they are dropping. Nothing wrong with taking the ball at different timings if it is planned and on purpose. But it looks more like you are doing that because you are late in being ready for the ball coming at you.

But, again, the fact that you got yourself to man up and make a video is a good thing. I am wondering if you had ever seen yourself play before. Interesting how when you see yourself play, it usually looks different than you thought it would look unless you are used to seeing footage of yourself play on a consistent basis. It is worth doing that. It really helps you improve and see how you actually play.

As far as the haircut, I cut my hair myself. I have since I was in 7th grade in Junior high school. Cutting my own hair in my bathroom doesn't cost anything. But, I kind of like the long hair thing. While you have it. You might as well have it.

At this point I would look very funny with long hair since there is so much less on top than on the sides. LOL.
 
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It's not aimed at anyone specific NL - But I've seen people criticised for expressing their opinion, when they perhaps don't have perfect technique themselves.

All I'm saying is.... I haven't seen anyone on here with perfect technique - We all perhaps "know" what to do, and what not to do, but knowing, and doing, are very different things.

I know what I need to do.... Doesn't stop me from doing the opposite from time to time and thinking I'm the worlds biggest plonker!

I think it's the English that say that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones?

I have been playing club level TT for about 5 years or so. I read a lot of stuff on the internet and listened to people that I never saw play who sounded pretty insightful. At that time, I couldn't make sense of technique and was trying to learn as an adult.

Later, I learned that TT attracts a lot of people who are pretty smart and are trying to figure things out. It helps to know who is posting before you become a subject of their experiments. I would probably have a different view if I played more seriously as a junior or if I knew more about TT technique because of some prior experience. But I literally started understanding technique maybe a 1.5 years ago at most.

I remember being at a tournament where a 2350 player (with a 2600 level wife) was playing a 2250 player. After the first set, his 2500 friend came over as his coach and gave him advice. Later, one of my friends asked the 2350 player what 2500 player told him. The 2350 player said, "He gave me some advice, which I know is perfectly correct, but whether I can execute it is the problem, so I might have to find my own way."

A lot of TT is like that. But people who think there is only one precise way to play don't realize it. That's why my favorite players and coaches tend to be people who have experience developing amateur adults into good club players - they know and speak to my pain. They know how and when they need to make compromises for the greater good. They don't coach people exactly how they learned.

It's one of the reasons I faithfully watch every lesson that Andy Couchman posts with Marc Burnham. I learn a lot, and I am not at the level of either player.

Sorry for using your comment as an excuse to digress. But I hope my biases come across better. Knowledge is proved in effectiveness.
 
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NDH

says Spin to win!
I think it's the English that say that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones?

I have been playing club level TT for about 5 years or so. I read a lot of stuff on the internet and listened to people that I never saw play who sounded pretty insightful. At that time, I couldn't make sense of technique and was trying to learn as an adult.

Later, I learned that TT attracts a lot of people who are pretty smart and are trying to figure things out. It helps to know who is posting before you become a subject of their experiments. I would probably have a different view if I played more seriously as a junior or if I knew more about TT technique because of some prior experience. But I literally started understanding technique maybe a 1.5 years ago at most.

I remember being at a tournament where a 2350 player (with a 2600 level wife) was playing a 2250 player. After the first set, his 2500 friend came over as his coach and gave him advice. Later, one of my friends asked the 2350 player what 2500 player told him. The 2350 player said, "He gave me some advice, which I know is perfectly correct, but whether I can execute it is the problem, so I might have to find my own way."

A lot of TT is like that. But people who think there is only one precise way to play don't realize it. That's why my favorite players and coaches tend to be people who have experience developing amateur adults into good club players - they know and speak to my pain. They know how and when they need to make compromises for the greater good. They don't coach people exactly how they learned.

It's one of the reasons I faithfully watch every lesson that Andy Couchman posts with Marc Burnham. I learn a lot, and I am not at the level of either player.

Sorry for using your comment as an excuse to digress. But I hope my biases come across better. Knowledge is proved in effectiveness.

Don't apologise, it's good to get an insight into people and why they post etc.

I had coaching from the age of 12-17 - Then stopped played pretty much for the past 10 years (I had 1 season in 2010/11), and have just finished my first season back, having started again in July last year.

I've found the desire to actually learn more about the shot making more than ever (compared to when I was younger) - Back then, it just seemed to flow without thinking about it!
 
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Don't apologise, it's good to get an insight into people and why they post etc.

I had coaching from the age of 12-17 - Then stopped played pretty much for the past 10 years (I had 1 season in 2010/11), and have just finished my first season back, having started again in July last year.

I've found the desire to actually learn more about the shot making more than ever (compared to when I was younger) - Back then, it just seemed to flow without thinking about it!

People who learn things as kids don't understand how lucky they are. Seriously. You are being shown the correct strokes before you have years of accumulated bad habits to correct. And before you start thinking you should be better than you are.

For adults, the pains and rewards are different. Still great, but different.
 
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@Nextlevel

We are mostly hitting, due to his level. My shots have enough topspin on them to be topspin shots, but these are more so powerloops, except I'm not swinging very hard, perhaps about 50%. It's surprisingly hard to really topspin a return that doesn't have much topspin or backspin on it, I find it easier to just kill low-spin shots with more drive because the added pace is more dangerous than the spin IMO.

If I put a ball in the net, it will hop on the table violently at the net, then roll in the net for 3 - 5 seconds, traveling up the net. If I make a shot go long and it hits the wall some distance away from the opposite side, the ball will accelerate itself away from me again, speeding up as it hits the ground.

You can also see a very clear magnus effect in all of my loops, especially the farther from the table I go. So my shots must have at least a respectable amount of topspin.

It's just that the pace is more dramatic, so there's not an extremely clear arc unless I have a lot of distance from the table, or it goes long. :p

My backhand has considerably less topspin on it in the video. It's really more of a hit, and I'm deliberately not flicking with a lot of topspin because I don't think he'd be able to return it very well + the hitting method is safer on a no-spin ball.

I can play slower, very spinny loops in a rally, but as you see, I did not perform a single rallying backhand stroke in the video, so you can't really tell. I'll try to get some rallying footage the next time I play with him.

@UpSideDownCarl

Your point about returning half long is correct, but I have a valid excuse.

The net at our school's table is really busted. Some idiot walked into the post one day and loosened it a bit, ripping some of the fabric from the ends and splitting the netpost's connection the table. With some ghetto engineering, we've managed to tighten it up, but apart from ripping the entire thing away and getting a fitting replacement (I've tried) we'd either have to buy a netpost and net for the exact same model of table, or play with this.

The reason this matters is because balls that clip the net, especially at a lower pace, are absolutely vicious. They slide off the net, bounce in a random direction, bounce directly up then slam into the other side, ride along the net's edge sideways and then drop onto the table etc.

It's extremely hard to return half long balls that have clipped the net after coming from a high trajectory because you have no idea where it's gonna go, or if it's even gonna hit the net properly. My in-out footwork has gotten a lot better due to it, but I can only describe it as "hard mode".

That, coupled with fatigue and not really being mentally "into it" results in those huge lunges because I wasn't in the slightest ready.

To top it off, my friend got so fed up with my loopdrives and my backhand brush loops that he developed good enough blocking technique to drop it on the net, unless it's really heavy. The first point after my serve is exactly that. :p

Also, about sound:

First off, all loops with good pace on them sound like a hit more than a brush. So it's logical that all of my forehands in this video will sound more like hits than loops. A boosted rubber further amplifies this, and you get a really loud slap even on shots with a ton of topspin, as long as there's some kind of pace on it.

The reason the ball sounds so dead is because of the rubbish sponge and rackets we use. I really don't need a good, spinny setup right now, nor would I want to take it to a place like this. I'm not worried about it getting stolen or anything, but let's just say that teenagers don't really respect other people's things most of the time. It'd also be a complete waste and it'd just wear out faster, and there'd be no challenge either.

So, I have to deal with perhaps less spin than I should be getting (I can't brush loop effectively with the premade Stiga setup at the school because the rubber is so worn.) and a terrible sound.

Well, this is the 2nd worst sound I've heard. The worst is some SOC premade racket that basically bottoms out on every stroke, despite the brick hard sponge, and produces a very audible, wooden "thunk".


I can play with a proper setup far better, especially Chinese rubber, but it's a waste to use it here. The equipment I have to use is extremely slow, and doesn't even have that good feeling either (rock hard sponge) but it's good enough to reward good technique.

I think playing with something other than Tenergy/Hurricane/MX-P will help me more than hinder me, in terms of technique.




Also, my impression of how I look in this video vs how I think I look was not that far off, but the funny thing is, I look better on video than I thought I would.

It felt shit to play when I filmed this, so I expected to look even worse, but it's not that bad. I'm curious to see how I look at my absolute top form when I don't lunge around, I'm low and on my toes and all of my shots are basically identical unless I make a deliberate decision to change the effect.

Here in the video, I can basically guarantee that nearly every shot that looks different from the prior or latter is due to unforced mistakes, though.
 
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@Nextlevel

We are mostly hitting, due to his level. My shots have enough topspin on them to be topspin shots, but these are more so powerloops, except I'm not swinging very hard, perhaps about 50%. It's surprisingly hard to really topspin a return that doesn't have much topspin or backspin on it, I find it easier to just kill low-spin shots with more drive because the added pace is more dangerous than the spin IMO.

Of course it is hard. But it is possible. It just depends on your level of experience and practice and of course, how you decide to play.

If I put a ball in the net, it will hop on the table violently at the net, then roll in the net for 3 - 5 seconds, traveling up the net. If I make a shot go long and it hits the wall some distance away from the opposite side, the ball will accelerate itself away from me again, speeding up as it hits the ground.

You can also see a very clear magnus effect in all of my loops, especially the farther from the table I go. So my shots must have at least a respectable amount of topspin.

It's just that the pace is more dramatic, so there's not an extremely clear arc unless I have a lot of distance from the table, or it goes long. :p

My backhand has considerably less topspin on it in the video. It's really more of a hit, and I'm deliberately not flicking with a lot of topspin because I don't think he'd be able to return it very well + the hitting method is safer on a no-spin ball.

I can play slower, very spinny loops in a rally, but as you see, I did not perform a single rallying backhand stroke in the video, so you can't really tell. I'll try to get some rallying footage the next time I play with him.

That's fair. As others have mentioned, the video quality is low, but you clearly have some good fundamentals on many of your strokes. In my experience, talking up my game leads me down the path of derision when people actually see it. Posting quality video later will be sufficient, but even if not, you have shown your game and going forward, you are allowed to insult any and all aspects of my game without me retaliating.
 
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I'm not much of a brush loop player, but perhaps as I play better people who will pressure me more, I will add it to my repertoire.

It is a conscious decision to emphasize speed and I don't do it because I can't spin: but as is evident from the half long balls in the video, my brush loop close to the table is not confident enough. It's actually next on my list of things I want to develop.

Do understand that my quite good fundamentals in some of my strokes, being mostly self taught, with under 2 years of experience, comes with a price. I can't possibly have as solid fundamentals everywhere. I attempt to, and mostly succeed in not doing anything absolutely terribly wrong, but there's big gaps.

I also train with the Eastern philosophy of drilling one thing to mastery, and not many at the same time, so it is natural that some aspects of my game will be better than others while I am still developing. It has worked to me up to now in everything like this I have done, but always been slow to produce instantly visible results.

Believe it or not, but I'm a really good loser. I don't think I won a single match during my first half year of playing, even against the same person I am playing in the video. I got used to losing constantly while I worked on my fundamentals, knowing it'd eventually pay off, and now it's paying off.

I guess I should go back to losing for a bit while I work on some aspects of my game that are not as developed.

Also, Nextlevel. I don't care to insult your game, nor do I want to. You're clearly better than I currently am, and I know the struggle. My intention has never been to be "better than everyone" so I can talk down on them.


My friend has quite a good camera on his phone, but it drains extremely fast. I'll try to get 5 mins or so of footage with it next time, with a little better FOV as well. Video and audio quality is leaps and bounds above my phone, at least.
 
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@Archosaurus : I will patiently wait for you to post a quality video with a setup you think you should be playing with and show us what your partner is doing when you are playing. Sometimes partial truth is more harmful than a downright lie ..

Now , people have appreciated your form, people have also accepted your reasons for your follies. However, if you read through the thread , neither @NextLevel nor @UpSideDownCarl has made any remarks that puts you down, or your technique with a degree of viciousness generally seen in your remarks which has the potential stop anyone from posting any videos any further.

I have been reading through the comments you make and I don't think there is anything getting lost in translation, your english is really pretty good. But what you don't realize through your immaturity is that your comments are generally harmful in the aspect that people would stop opening up if you are not polite and constructive in your criticism .... and that my friend would defeat the whole purpose of a table tennis forum.

So read through the thread and understand and accept how kind people are to you and try to return some of the kindness back, if you can ...

What @NextLevel told elsewhere really resonated with me , "Logic is a way to organize experience" .. you certainly do have the logic , not sure about the other part :)
 
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I see a lot of myself in you. This is how I play 5 years ago hahahaha
That serve and that forehand of ours haha

If you developed like I did, and seeing where you come from, then it makes sense, doesn't it? :p

Don't worry, though. This is not my usual serve technique. My serve is actually pretty good when I get low, keep the elbow higher and hinge on the right axis, but it feels a bit unfair against lower level players. ;)

@ttmonster

See you in at least 2 years, then. I can't afford to purchase my own custom setup with a rubber I like just to beat on some recreational players.

The only part I can fulfill right now is better video quality and better angle.

Also, if you're trying to say that I'm bullshitting and posted a clip of me getting lucky while playing some rubbish player, do take into account that A: Fundamentals do not appear out of thin air and B: This is my worst level.

I understand the need to be skeptical and I don't assume you're going to say anything nice when I post a video to get criticism, but do also understand that like Nextlevel had proved, one video of someone not playing well is not an accurate representation of their game.

Also, about my form of criticism:

I understand your point. I'm too thick skinned myself to care, but I'm trying to tone it down, because I do admit that if people shat on me, I'd still post more video, but perhaps not be as enthusiastic about it.

I'm a far more strict critic of myself than you will ever be able to be, though, so you don't need to compete. :p
 
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If you developed like I did, and seeing where you come from, then it makes sense, doesn't it? :p

Don't worry, though. This is not my usual serve technique. My serve is actually pretty good when I get low, keep the elbow higher and hinge on the right axis, but it feels a bit unfair against lower level players. ;)

@ttmonster

See you in at least 2 years, then. I can't afford to purchase my own custom setup with a rubber I like just to beat on some recreational players.

The only part I can fulfill right now is better video quality and better angle.

Also, if you're trying to say that I'm bullshitting and posted a clip of me getting lucky while playing some rubbish player, do take into account that A: Fundamentals do not appear out of thin air and B: This is my worst level.

I understand the need to be skeptical and I don't assume you're going to say anything nice when I post a video to get criticism, but do also understand that like Nextlevel had proved, one video of someone not playing well is not an accurate representation of their game.

Also, about my form of criticism:

I understand your point. I'm too thick skinned myself to care, but I'm trying to tone it down, because I do admit that if people shat on me, I'd still post more video, but perhaps not be as enthusiastic about it.

I'm a far more strict critic of myself than you will ever be able to be, though, so you don't need to compete. :p


This is how I play a few months back this was filmed last November. through the tips from these wonderful guys
here in TTDaily I have improved a lot I mean a lot :)


BTW this was my last game for the day or you can say my worst level
I started playing at around 4 pm and this video is around 8 in the evening
after doing a lot of physicals and matchplay. and I was using Akrasia with Hurricane 3 fh at that time.
 
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