New blade help for beginner / intermediate player

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Hello,

I am looking to upgrade my racket. I have played table tennis with shakehand for only four months. Currently I am using a premade DHS 6002 with hurricane3/tinarc but as the rubbers are getting worn out, I am thinking about getting something new. I am still developing my playstyle but I tend to play mid-distance away from the table (I am trying to play closer), and like looping/driving and keeping the ball in play after my opponent smashes.


Currently I am looking at the following options with a hurricane 3 neo forehand and either a hurricane 3-50/neo/ltk pro xp backhand.


1) DHS TG7-P
2) Donic Appelgren Allplay
3) DHS PG7
4) Stiga Clipper CR


Which blade would be the best choice or any other suggestions or recommendations?


Thanks
 
Why upgrade the blade and rubber? DHS is a good blade manufacturer. Why not just upgrade your rubbers (and go away from the Chinese rubbers to tensors)? It would be a cheaper option and change only one of your variables (just rubbers).

Or is your goal to get a harder blade (most in your list are harder) with that rubber setup?

Prior to making any decisions, do you have players at your club with the blades in your list? Their rubber may be different and change the feeling.
 
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I know 2 older guys who play very close to the table and they have different styles.One takes everything on the bounce and moves you all over the table.The other guy attacks.They both have control rubbers.Butterfly tackiness c in a 1.5 b/h. butterfly sriver f/h 1.5.The defensive guy has a butterfly grubba all plus blade.I would suggest buying second hand from e bay until you find something you like.If you really have the bug be prepared to spend a few hundred pound on second hand gear till you get it right.You can always sell your used equipment.I have only been playing a short period and have picked up a defensive blade an offensive blade and an allround blade.i have tried short pimples long pimples ,anti and inverted in various sizes.I think you have to try the lot.On a strange note i have seen several people pay hundreds of pounds for a blade and rubbers and play worse as their set up is too fast.
 
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H3 is a very good rubber, so I think that's a great choice and will minimize the adjustment you need for rubbers. Blade-wise, chuckjordan has a good recommendation if you're not seriously planning on developing. Most blades that come with premade paddles aren't very stable, meaning the bounce isn't necessarily always uniform across the blade face. Also, the glue they use on premades makes removing the rubber pretty terrible and tends to splinter the blade. As far as your list goes, all of them are good blades as far as their construction goes (I haven't played with the exact blades but I HAVE played with blades of similar construction). I currently play with a 7-ply ayous blade with limba outer plies and love it, you may want to add it to your list as it's less expensive than every option you've listed - Dawei Genote Quattro O. It cost 22 USD from colestt.com and some of the more experienced members here adamantly recommend it to those of us looking to upgrade to an offensive blade. Best of luck!!
 
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My recommendation is to go with an all-around 5-ply all wood blade. Primorac off- would be a great option but if you want a cheaper alternative, tibhar samsonov alpha plays really similarly to primorac off-

Blades like primorac off- and samsonov alpha are excellent for beginners and you can even keep using it until you're good enough to get a fast carbon blade.

PG7 and clipper are 7-ply allwood and generally they're faster compared to 5-ply with less feeling which is something you don't want for developing players

For the rubber, if you want to stick with hurricane 3 for FH, you could do that although developing your game with a chinese rubber means most probably you'll stick with it forever. For BH, something like mark V or vega europe might work
 
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Why upgrade the blade and rubber? DHS is a good blade manufacturer. Why not just upgrade your rubbers (and go away from the Chinese rubbers to tensors)? It would be a cheaper option and change only one of your variables (just rubbers).

Or is your goal to get a harder blade (most in your list are harder) with that rubber setup?

Prior to making any decisions, do you have players at your club with the blades in your list? Their rubber may be different and change the feeling.

I didn't consider keeping the blade as I wasn't sure about the quality of the premade, especially if i remove the rubber. I will keep it in mind. There might be someone with a clipper, but different rubbers though.

I think you have to try the lot.On a strange note i have seen several people pay hundreds of pounds for a blade and rubbers and play worse as their set up is too fast.

Yes it would be nice if I could try blades before I buy like tennis, there's too many options in table tennis!

Blade-wise, chuckjordan has a good recommendation if you're not seriously planning on developing. Dawei Genote Quattro O. It cost 22 USD from colestt.com and some of the more experienced members here adamantly recommend it to those of us looking to upgrade to an offensive blade. Best of luck!!

What do you mean by not serious about developing? With my current setup? I will take a look at the Dawei one.

My recommendation is to go with an all-around 5-ply all wood blade. Primorac off- would be a great option but if you want a cheaper alternative, tibhar samsonov alpha plays really similarly to primorac off-

Blades like primorac off- and samsonov alpha are excellent for beginners and you can even keep using it until you're good enough to get a fast carbon blade.

PG7 and clipper are 7-ply allwood and generally they're faster compared to 5-ply with less feeling which is something you don't want for developing players

For the rubber, if you want to stick with hurricane 3 for FH, you could do that although developing your game with a chinese rubber means most probably you'll stick with it forever. For BH, something like mark V or vega europe might work

Okay thanks for the suggestion

I have an Appelgren Allplay with S3 and M3 that's pretty much brand new that I'd be willing to part with for a smile.

Unfortunately shipping is probably a killer!
 
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Currently I am looking at the following options with a hurricane 3 neo forehand and either a hurricane 3-50/neo/ltk pro xp backhand.
Tiai,are you going to glue the rubbers on yourself.?
As mentioned if you choose a blade i would go for the second hand option in case you dont like it.You can the sell it on.
Be prepared for a very frustrating journey mate.
I also play tennis and have 2 set ups
You may find yourself with a number of set ups in table tennis depending on the player you are playing.
 
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Tiai,are you going to glue the rubbers on yourself.?
As mentioned if you choose a blade i would go for the second hand option in case you dont like it.You can the sell it on.
Be prepared for a very frustrating journey mate.
I also play tennis and have 2 set ups
You may find yourself with a number of set ups in table tennis depending on the player you are playing.

At the moment I am thinking about getting the store to glue & seal it when I buy the blade and rubbers. (although i have ordered some tear mender)

I have perhaps narrowed it down to 3 options from slower to faster:

Tibhar Samsonov Alpha
Stiga Offensive Wood NCT
Tibhar Stratus Power Wood
 
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Don't go for NCT. It makes the surface harder and reduces dwell time.

What you want for developing is actually a 5 ply, all wood blade with good flex and good feel.

That is actually what you want from when you are developing till you are almost semi-pro level.

I will search to see if I can find quotes that give the reasons, it's too much info for me to write the same stuff yet again.


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Here, this is me being modest and quoting myself. Hahaha. But, for real, I have said this same basic info way too many times.

Okay, so, let's see if I can do this justice.

One of the biggest issues for a player under a certain level, I said 1800 but in some ways it is 2200, is spin and ball feel. There is a certain point at which a player's touch feel and technique solidifies and these become issues of the past. But, for a developing player

1) Touch
2) Feel
3) Spin

Are 3 parts of one issue that hold the player below a certain level.

By about 1800, some players will have developed decent touch, feel and spin. But, not really always. And most players who are 2000-2100 have pretty decent technique but their technique can be broken down by a better player or by a weird player who presents complicated problems to that player. By around 2200-2300, usually, a players technique has solidified so that, even if an opponent is better or find some way to break the player's GAME down, their technique doesn't break down even though there game does.

At that level you can use any kind of equipment you want and continue to improve.

Somewhere between 1800-2200, many players will have good enough touch, feel and spin to get away with using carbon. But it really depends on the alpha and omega of how we spin the ball: touch and feel.

So, what am I saying here? Most developing players under a certain level need to REALLY work on learning how to generate more spin. Developing better touch is essential to getting better spin. Feeling the ball better is essential to developing better touch. And having a blade that automatically allows you to grab the ball better and have the ball stay on the rubber better (dwell time) are essential to learning how to spin the ball better.

Now you can learn all this stuff with a blade like, say, a Viscaria. But it is harder to and it will take longer to. So, if you want a blade that will help you improve your stroke, your touch, your feel, your ability to hold the ball on the blade face and rubber longer to get more spin, then you probably want a 5 ply, all wood, blade with some decent flex, good dwell time and the right vibrations so that while the ball is on the blade face, it is more easy to feel.

What carbon usually does is, it makes a blade harder under the top ply, lighter--because carbon weighs less than wood--faster, stiffer and it dampens vibrations so you feel the ball less.

10 years ago 8 of 10 players in the top 10 used all wood blades. These days, 8 of 10 players in the top ten use some form of combination composite blade that has Carbon and Arylate or Zylon. The technology has gotten good enough that, at that level, the pros of carbon outweigh the cons. But it is worth understanding that 1 generation ago, most top pros used all wood blades.

The extra flex and dwell time added to the extra ability to feel the ball really help you learn how to hold the ball on the blade face for longer much more quickly. The feel and the ability to feel when your contact is good and when IT IS NOT GOOD, are a huge value. Because part of how a wood blade helps your technique improve is on a sub-cortical level (that means you aren't even conscious of the slight changes your nervous system makes based on the feedback from the blade). Good contact feels really good and your nervous system starts figuring out the accidents you make that give you better contact and dwell time. Bad contact feels bad and your nervous system figures out what not to do because we don't want that bad feeling from spinning the ball.

With a carbon blade, your good contact feels good and SO DOES YOUR MISHITS. And they both feel pretty close to the same. A higher level player has good enough contact for this to no longer be an issue for them. But for most players under around 1800-2000 depending on the player, the technique is not developed enough for this not to get in the way of learning to get more spin more efficiently.

So an all wood, 5 ply, All+ to Off-, flexy blade with good dwell time and good feel, will actually help your nervous system figure out what better contact is without you even realizing it is happening!!!!!!! Totally worth it.

The next part is also simple. With a carbon blade, they are usually faster and too fast for developing good strokes so a lower level player will cut down their stroke and compromise the completeness and followthrough of the stroke for the sake of keeping the ball on the table. So the faster blade that does more of the work and makes you need to cut down your stroke, because it does too much of the work for you can help you cement crappy strokes into muscle memory. And once that happens, those habits which have been wired into your nervous system are hard to change.

A slower blade makes you do more of the work. Helps your body learn how to add the hips and the weight transfer so you get enough power and ensures you have a complete stroke because a stroke without a good followthrough will end up giving you a slow shot that is easy for your opponent to handle. So the slow blade forces the bigger aspects of a good stroke to be learned also.

You could think about it like a batter in baseball in the on-deck circle: he takes his bat, puts a doughnut on it (a weight that makes it heavier) so that when he is at bat and swinging for real his bat feels lighter and he can swing with more power. Till you are about 2000-2200, you want to have to work harder for your strokes. And when you are that level, you will still swing harder with the faster blade because your technique, your touch, your feel, your spin and your body mechanics will be enough better that those will all be in place and done correctly regardless of what blade you use.

Hope that fills in some more of the blanks on why you don't want carbon until your technique is VERY SOLID.

Now, I have a few fast blades and I have a few composite blades. Once in a while it is fun to pull one out and blast away at the ball. So, I think that is okay.

Also, if you play for fun and don't care about getting better, then you just get whatever blade makes you happy and don't worry about it.

But if you want a blade that will help you improve your technique, and you are not a semi-pro level player (an elite player) than 5 plies, all wood, not too fast. And a wood like Limba (soft) for the top ply. Or a slow Hinoki blade if you could find that. Over time the rewards will be evident.


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By the way Mark, based on a few things you've said in a few posts, a new setup might not be a bad idea.

These blades would be good for you (in no particular order):

1) Stiga Allround Evolution
2) Yasaka Sweden Extra
3) Tibhar Stratus Power Wood

Those are the inexpensive versions. Next are the expensive versions:

1) Nittaku Violin
2) Nttaku Acoustic
3) OSP Virtuoso Off-

The interesting thing is, the more expensive blades don't necessarily play much better than the less expensive ones. But they might be better crafted and more solid, so, less delicate. I know that Stiga blade is pretty delicate and my OSP V+ is a tank. I have hit the corner of the table with it and thought, "oh no, I'm gonna have to fix the damage," and there wasn't any!!! My V Off- is slightly less indestructible but still, totally solid.

But the more expensive ones will have excellent feeling. And if you get a good one, with the less expensive ones, they will have pretty close to as good feeling. Which is actually the important issue.

The Tibhar Stratus Power Wood is really a great choice.


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Everyone likes slightly different things. That does come down to personal taste. And with any of the mass produced wooden blades, they have a range for how they feel. A good one is pretty nice. One they is not as good is not going to have as much feel. Usually the ones that are a little bit on the heavier side are the ones that have the better feel.

With hand made blades like the OSP blades, they actually all have great feel because the wood is selected and the blades are crafted by hand with care. It's a different level of craftsmanship.

Another few blades that would fall into the category of the ones I listed in my quote above that wouldn't be that expensive are:

1) Stiga Offensive Classic
2)Stiga EnergyWood
3) Butterfly Primorac Off-



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Here, this is me being modest and quoting myself. Hahaha. But, for real, I have said this same basic info way too many times.





The Tibhar Stratus Power Wood is really a great choice.

Good info. Looking at the blades you recommended, it looks like the Yasaka Sweden Classic is a fair bit slower than the Tibhar Stratus Power Wood as it's a all-round blade, while the SPW is listed as OFF- but most would say it is closer to a OFF.

How does the Tibhar SPW play with Chinese rubbers? The reviews for it are quite good but not sure if it would be too fast, while the Tibhar Samsonov Alpha is similar but slower.
 
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Everyone likes slightly different things. That does come down to personal taste. And with any of the mass produced wooden blades, they have a range for how they feel. A good one is pretty nice. One they is not as good is not going to have as much feel. Usually the ones that are a little bit on the heavier side are the ones that have the better feel.

1) Stiga Offensive Classic
2)Stiga EnergyWood
3) Butterfly Primorac Off-



Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

I did take a look at the Butterfly primorac, but it is slightly pricey, the Butterfly korbel also looked nice, similar to the Tibhar Power Wood. Does a heavier blade translate to more power, while lighter = more control?
 
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Heavier wood is denser and has better playing characteristics. More solid. Better feel. A little more power. But because of the added solidity, the same blade with 3-4 grams more weight from denser wood usually plays with the same or better control.


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I did take a look at the Butterfly primorac, but it is slightly pricey, the Butterfly korbel also looked nice, similar to the Tibhar Power Wood. Does a heavier blade translate to more power, while lighter = more control?

The thing about butterfly blades is that they're really easy to re-sell. IMO Stratus power wood feels numb even with tenergy that generally gives a lot of feedback from the blade.

Primorac off- is one of the most recommended blades for beginners. It's one of those "can't go wrong with this" even for people who are already on advanced level
 
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Im trying to buy one from a coach but hes ignoring my emails.:mad:
I have 2 butterfly grubbas all plus.they have a nice feel and are cheap.

If you're from grubba and you intend to get an "upgrade", IMO primorac probably won't be too different compared to grubba in terms of speed. Something like Korbel SK7 or Clipper are probably better as an "upgrade"
 
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