Need help fixing forehand technique

anchorschmidt · Apr 27, 2016

Hi,

I've been trying to fix my forehand ever since I've started playing table tennis

A few issues remain that I can see and perhaps more that you guys can see

Here are some angles of the video

One problem that I've been trying to fix is the way that my wrist goes up when I'm pulling back to play the forehand stroke. My angle is way too closed and you can see my backhand rubber. I've been trying to fix that by adopting a more neutral forehand grip but the problem hasn't completely gone away. I'm still looking for ways to fix this. When my timing is good, I can play a good ball but I can also hit the edge too many times because the angle of the racket is not stable throughout the stroke.

If I'm not in a good position, this also burns me many times.

Here are two pictures to show more clearly what I mean

This is the backswing

And this is when I correct the blade angle.

Ideally, I would like to keep the blade angle stable during the backswing. I wonder if anyone else has had the same problem and has suggestions on how to fix this.

Another thing. What are your thoughts on the position of my right foot? Am I too parallel or does my waist movement compensate for it?

NextLevel · Apr 27, 2016

Why are you trying to fix something that is correct?

Archosaurus · Apr 27, 2016

NL, I was just about to post that WLQ video.

Doesn't that happen because of relaxation, and it's desirable and not a problem?

anchorschmidt · Apr 27, 2016

Hi NextLevel,

thanks a lot for the videos. My trainer has told me that it was a source of errors but I can't seem to get rid of it completely. It used to be much more pronounced but according to the videos that you have posted, it seems that my wrist movement is better now. If I reduce it just slightly more, I think that it will be perfect.

Probably positioning and timing issues are causing those edge balls

kukamonga · Apr 27, 2016

there are many things wrong:
-you are too far from table
-you need to flex your knees more, go lower
-take ball earlier
-right foot needs to go back, not parallel

that video of wang liqin is actually a terrible reference because he is probably counterlooping or something.
he would never loop from there if the other guy was simply blocking.

NextLevel · Apr 27, 2016

anchorschmidt said:
Hi NextLevel,

thanks a lot for the videos. My trainer has told me that it was a source of errors but I can't seem to get rid of it completely. It used to be much more pronounced but according to the videos that you have posted, it seems that my wrist movement is fine now.

Probably positioning and timing issues are causing those edge balls

What causes the edge balls is where you aim to make contact on the ball and that has nothing to do with the backswing. If your forward swing plane is to go over the top of the ball with closed racket, you will have too many edges etc.

What most better players do and what it looks like you are doing in the video is coming around the side and over the ball. This gives you a bigger contact area and is safer than swinging into the ball from the back, especially when dealing with heavy spin. Go about 3 mins in to see:

I don't know your level but your technique looks generally fine and checks my boxes. There are probably fixable things but I would not be ashamed to have your technique. All you have to learn is how to adjust your swing plane and contact point for the spin on the ball. The base swing looks fine.

ttmonster · Apr 27, 2016

I don't thing there is anything major however there are multiple correct forms , you could flex your knees a little more , and rotate the waist a little more and not bend forward that much. I feel that you are a little tensed , especially the forearm . So , instead of grabbing the ball and spinning it sometimes you are hitting it . To fix your problem , you could try to overcompensate for a while and it might help. Meaning, you could trying to up from down for every loop and just treat your arm as an extension of your body much like how Brett says in the video . Don't try to add the forearm snap and the wrist whip consciously , it should be an automatic add on to your stroke when you relax your forearm .

NextLevel · Apr 27, 2016

So don't get me wrong, anchorschmidt - are there things you can do to improve this loop? Yes. You could always get lower etc.

Is this loop as is going to be a major issue for your improvement? No. IF you practiced adjusting this loop to backspin, no spin, sidespin, pip balls etc., then you would learn the different swing planes required for such balls. Missing the ball is not always the fault of the technique, it is often the result of inexperience adjusting the technique. You could also practice taking the ball earlier with the technique but like I said, that is about adjustments, not about the swing itself. The earlier technique may be shorter and play at a higher point on the side of the ball, but these do not mean that your base stroke is not fine.

UpSideDownCarl · Apr 27, 2016

Easy to say, not so easy to do: relax buddy. [emoji2]

To me, the main thing I see is that, you just need to really spend the time, grove the stroke and get more comfortable and relaxed with it. I think the posts so far are solid about technical stuff. But it looks to me like the important fundamentals are well in place and spending some extra time on really grooving the FH stroke to get it more relaxed and fluid will cause a lot of the little hitches to disappear.

If you had access to a robot, a robot could give you enough of the extra reps you want for your FH so that, when you are with your coach, you can break far more ground.

But your fundamentals are solid. 30-60 min 1-3 x a week on a robot taking thousands of reps to grove the stroke, you would be amazed at how much that would do for you.

Without that you are still fine. With that you will jump 2+ levels very fast.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

ttmonster · Apr 27, 2016

Okay , so I thought about this a little more. You seem pretty tall , how tall are you exactly ? The reason I am asking is that due to our inherent sense of perspective our observations about the correct form gets a little screwed up when we look at a shorter player and compare it to a taller player. I am pretty sure thats why NextLevel referred you to the video by Wang Liqin.

You can refer to the following videos and compare your technique :

anchorschmidt · Apr 27, 2016

ttmonster said:
Okay , so I thought about this a little more. You seem pretty tall , how tall are you exactly ? The reason I am asking is that due to our inherent sense of perspective about the correct form gets a little screwed up when we look at a shorter player and compare it to a taller player. I am pretty sure thats why NextLevel referred you to the video by Wang Liqin.

Thanks for the video, I'm 192cm tall or 6 feet 3 inches.

ttmonster · Apr 27, 2016

Some more stuff ...

Begin by tucking in your non playing arm to your waist, rotate your waist and have the wrist in a neutral position. Track the ball with your waist , and approach the ball with your waist , at the last moment , release the forearm snap with a loose wrist, the wrist whip will happen its own.

Step by step, you can start without forearm snap and and wrist when you rebuild your stroke. once you are able to guide the ball with you waist consistently, add your forearm still keep the wrist fixed and then when you are comfortable , you don't need to add the wrist on purpose, just have a loose wrist and you will start getting the feeling where the wrist and fore arm is like a ball tied to the end of a rope that you are swinging from your waist. However, its a very fine balance, you have to make sure that you are aware about your wrist even though its loose . I don't know how better to describe this .

Also, remember that the key in table tennis is about relaxing without loosing your firmness, form and focus !!

anchorschmidt · Apr 27, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
Easy to say, not so easy to do: relax buddy. [emoji2]

To me, the main thing I see is that, you just need to really spend the time, grove the stroke and get more comfortable and relaxed with it. I think the posts so far are solid about technical stuff. But it looks to me like the important fundamentals are well in place and spending some extra time on really grooving the FH stroke to get it more relaxed and fluid will cause a lot of the little hitches to disappear.

If you had access to a robot, a robot could give you enough of the extra reps you want for your FH so that, when you are with your coach, you can break far more ground.

But your fundamentals are solid. 30-60 min 1-3 x a week on a robot taking thousands of reps to grove the stroke, you would be amazed at how much that would do for you.

Without that you are still fine. With that you will jump 2+ levels very fast.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Thanks for the advice Carl. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a robot but for the last couple of weeks, I have been doing shadow training (the Brian Pace DVD) and that has really improved my form by a considerable amount. A year ago, I had no weight transfer to the left foot and my forehand stroke was just my shoulder and nothing else. The only stroke I could play was the spinny open-up against backspin with a somewhat wonky technique.

This was my forehand as of July 2015.

I think I had managed to stabilize the arm movement by January of this year but my footwork and weight transfer have improved because of shadow training and because of the trainers in my club.

NextLevel · Apr 27, 2016

anchorschmidt said:
Thanks for the advice Carl. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a robot but for the last couple of weeks, I have been doing shadow training (the Brian Pace DVD) and that has really improved my form by a considerable amount. A year ago, I had no weight transfer to the left foot and my forehand stroke was just my shoulder and nothing else. The only stroke I could play was the spinny open-up against backspin with a somewhat wonky technique.

This was my forehand as of July 2015.
....

I think I had managed to stabilize the arm movement by January of this year but my footwork and weight transfer have improved because of shadow training and because of the trainers in my club.

Now, if you had shown us that forehand, then you would have received a mountain of instructions.

ttmonster · Apr 27, 2016

You have come a long way anchor, the progress you have made is quite an accomplishment. Please pegging away and keep the basics in your mind and it will all fall into place.

Ilia Minkin · Apr 28, 2016

It seems that you have very good coaches in the club that know their job. If I were you, I'd just trust them completely and relaxed.

kukamonga · Apr 28, 2016

look at 2:30

that's what you need to aim for.

NDH · Apr 28, 2016

First thing to say is what a massive improvement you've made in under a year! That is some seriously good work and you should be proud!

As everyone else has said, there isn't a huge amount wrong with your forehand at all - If people were to be super critical, you could ever so slightly open the face of the blade on the backswing - This would allow you to change direction for down the line shots if needed.

Drinkhall is a good example, but he's much shorter than you, and a more compact player.

Although, if I were you, I would listen to whoever has got you from where you were last year, to now - Because it's 99% there already! The final 1% will come with honing the technique and positioning/anticipation/footwork etc.

kukamonga · Apr 28, 2016

NDH said:
First thing to say is what a massive improvement you've made in under a year! That is some seriously good work and you should be proud!

As everyone else has said, there isn't a huge amount wrong with your forehand at all - If people were to be super critical, you could ever so slightly open the face of the blade on the backswing - This would allow you to change direction for down the line shots if needed.

Drinkhall is a good example, but he's much shorter than you, and a more compact player.

Although, if I were you, I would listen to whoever has got you from where you were last year, to now - Because it's 99% there already! The final 1% will come with honing the technique and positioning/anticipation/footwork etc.

that's one of the main differences between pros and amateurs, the distance from table.

anchorschmidt · Apr 28, 2016

Hi, thanks for the comments guys.

@Paul Drinkhall. Between December and February, I really tried to use shorter strokes with more explosive power. I tried to play a forehand in a style similar to that of Timo Boll and Zhang Jike. While the balls that actually landed on the table had deadly spin, my footwork, anticipation, ball-sense etc. are just not good enough for timing such a short stroke. Not to mention, it was harder on the body. The only thing that came out of it was that I just didn't trust my forehand at all.

Currently, I'm trying to take a leaf out of Waldner's, Samsonov's, Ma Long's book and making the stroke a bit longer with more time for accelerating into the ball. This is much easier for timing the ball.

I have two trainers actually but I don't really have one-on-one training. Around once or twice a month, a high-level player (ca. TTR 1750) in my club would do a short session with me at my University and give me feedback. His feedback is always worth listening to and he is the guy who actually introduced me to table tennis. We have table tennis once a week in my University where mostly complete beginners play. He normally supervises the hall but I asked if I could play with him. My first attempted block landed 3 meters behind the table and I perhaps got a total of 3 points in 3 sets

. I asked him if he could teach me the strokes and that's how I started and I then started playing in his club.

I just practice what he tells me without a ball or keep his advice in mind. That helps me gain much more than if I just showed up to his training. My backhand is 100% the way he taught me but my forehand differs in a few ways as my FH grip is different. His grip change is quite big but mine is not as big between forehand and backhand as it feels more comfortable that way. I have a backhand grip and a very slight forehand grip and switch between them.

On Thursday, we have group training (around 6-12 people) by a player in the women's 3. Bundesliga. Her training is more about doing certain regular and sometimes irregular exercises. Though she gives us pointers on technique, we learn more about how to go from one stroke to the other. This training is quite challenging for me as most of the other players already have a honed technique but they are all very understanding if I make more errors than they do

Need help fixing forehand technique

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