trying to put things in the right way

laistrogian · May 2, 2016

Boogar said:
Are you sure thats a slower set up? Xiom vega is pretty fast and has a boost effect aswell. If you really want something slower consider classic stuff like sriver, mark 5 etc.

He's stepping down from an alc + tenergy setup. I think vega pro with 5 ply limba wood would already be a pretty significant step down in terms of speed for him

UpSideDownCarl · May 2, 2016

shinhyun said:
I think I will go for a primorac (with a xiom Vega pro 1.8 fh and xiom Vega Europe 1.8 bh ?) it seems to be a nice setup in order to slow down my former one.
The primorac is build like the virtuoso right? I mean 4 limba and 1 ayous. It may feel the same ?

Blade feeling doesn't actually work like that. The Primorac will have the same plies as a Virtuoso and feel absolutely nothing like a Virtuoso. Thickness of plies and gluing process cause these two blades to feel totally different. The two Stiga blades you were considering feel more like the Virtuoso even though the plies are different. But only the Virtuoso actually feels like a Virtuoso. [emoji2]

As far as rubbers, the rubbers you chose would be good. Vega Pro and Europe are good control rubbers.

But in my opinion you could use exactly the rubbers you are already using and just change the blade. This may in fact be ideal so you are not changing too much at once.

And I definitely would not use classic rubbers like Sriver and Mark V. If your goal is to learn to spin the ball well, and have control, ideally you use whatever modern rubber you want and you use a blade that is a little slower than what you are currently using with good dwell time, flex and feedback.

So your call on the rubbers as it is your call on the blade. The blade you are choosing with help you get more spin and control.

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UpSideDownCarl · May 2, 2016

In truth Butterfly's all wood blades feel a bit like furniture: solid and you can feel the ball; but they have a lifeless qualify to them. It is interesting. They actually have good feedback. You can feel the ball. But they have a deadened feeling. Whereas the Stiga blades have a crispness. And the Virtuoso is just a blade that is in a different class so more aliveness and that crispness.

A friend of mine, trying my Virtuoso Off- said: "oh, scary, I personally don't like this because I can feel exactly where I hit the ball on the blade face!" It made me laugh. But that was a pretty good description.

In the end the Primorac has its own feel and is definitely the sturdiest. The Primorac I gave to a friend was one of the best Primoracs I've ever felt. If they were all that good, I would use it in a heartbeat.

Choose the blade you want. Also choose the rubbers you really want.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

laistrogian · May 2, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
In truth Butterfly's all wood blades feel a bit like furniture: solid and you can feel the ball; but they have a lifeless qualify to them. It is interesting. They actually have good feedback. You can feel the ball. But they have a deadened feeling. Whereas the Stiga blades have a crispness. And the Virtuoso is just a blade that is in a different class so more aliveness and that crispness.

A friend of mine, trying my Virtuoso Off- said: "oh, scary, I personally don't like this because I can feel exactly where I hit the ball on the blade face!" It made me laugh. But that was a pretty good description.

In the end the Primorac has its own feel and is definitely the sturdiest. The Primorac I gave to a friend was one of the best Primoracs I've ever felt. If they were all that good, I would use it in a heartbeat.

Choose the blade you want. Also choose the rubbers you really want.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

I feel like in general table tennis world, stiga is the brand to go for all-wood while BTY is for carbon

NextLevel · May 2, 2016

Butterfly for composites, sure, partly because of their innovation, but there are too many good all wood blades to cede any kind of mantle to Stiga, IMO.

shinhyun · May 2, 2016

My r7s (it is max on the package but when I mesure it, it is 2mm : strange no?) is a little bit too fast on my tbalc, maybe on a slower it will be better. Anyway I prefer to keep the r7s and the t05 on the tbalc, so I will buy a new setup.
You said that the xiom Vega Europe is not durable? What do you recommand instead of the Vega Europe in the same price ?

Ok guys, I will trust you and try the stiga allround evolution, I hope it has the quality that we are waiting for.
For the rubber, I don't know, I want something cheaper and slower than the t05 and I've seen a lot of people talking about the xiom Vega series which is very cheap for modern rubbers with nice feedbacks (good speed, spin and control) but I've also heard that Germany rubber are not durable... Well it could be a myth... But for the price I think it is really good.

(Hmm btw the new stiga carbonado looks very good and cool)

UpSideDownCarl · May 2, 2016

I think you would be fine with Xiom Vega: Pro for FH and Europe for BH. Or you could go with Pro on both sides.

Not many Euro tensor rubbers last as long as Tenergy. But Vega is good rubber. Good spin and good control.

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shinhyun · May 2, 2016

Does the Vega pro work great with that blade ? Is it not too hard for the bh?

laistrogian · May 3, 2016

shinhyun said:
Does the Vega pro work great with that blade ? Is it not too hard for the bh?

Another rubber that I could recommend easily for you is Tibhar Evolution EL-P. Good speed, good control, good spin and it's easy to use

Ilia Minkin · May 3, 2016

laistrogian said:
Another rubber that I could recommend easily for you is Tibhar Evolution EL-P. Good speed, good control, good spin and it's easy to use

+1 one for EL-P -- I've been playing with it for >9 months already and don't even think about switching. It is harder than Vega Euro, but softer than Vega Pro. It is pretty fast and spinny, and it is easy to generate spin with it. Vega Pro is a pretty hard one, so you have to put in some force to get spin out of it.

UpSideDownCarl · May 3, 2016

The answer to the question about Vega Pro on BH is that it really depends on your ability to generate impact on your backhand. Someone like NextLevel was using Xiom Omega V Asia on BH for a while. Asia is definitely harder than Pro. I did not feel like Vega Pro was very hard. I know a lot of people who use it as a BH rubber and swear by it. But everyone is different and EL-P and FX-P are both also excellent.

Again, I think you can use any tensor rubbers you want with the blade you are getting. They all are going to work.

Ask NextLevel what he thinks about rubbers going well with particular blades.

Boogar · May 3, 2016

I use Vega pro for the BH and i realy like it. Not too fast but has enough power and spin to play from away from the table. Ireccomend taking a 1,8 at first to get the feel and then maybe upgrade to 2,0.

Atm im experimenting with a Andro Rasant Grip it has a softer sponge and bottoms out a little faster and it seems to have a bit more bounce and reaction to incomming spin.
However you can hit the ball sligthly flater and still generate enough spin, as with the Vega pro you need to brush a little bit more... but maybe thats just because its a new sheet

Olio · May 3, 2016

@shinhyun

A Paris il y a des tonnes de clubs ou tu trouveras des entraineurs et partenaires. Tu peux aussi passer sur forum.tennis-de-table.com pour discuter avec des joueurs plus proches de toi (et probablement les rencontrer pour des conseils avises)

Avant de proposer un achat supplementaire de revetements ou bois etc, il vaut mieux qu'un entraineur te voie jouer.

shinhyun · May 3, 2016

My retailer hasn't got the evolution series, but another one in Paris has these. Anyway, it is more expensive than the Vega series, also faster and heavier according to what I've read. It sounds cocky but I want to try them for the price.
So xiom Vega pro 1.8 each side with stiga allround evo?

@Olio
Oui je sais, mais n'ayant pas envie de quitter mon petit club sympathique pour le moment, je ne pourrais pas me faire coacher.
Je vais changer de club mais plus tard.
Ah bon? Il y a des gens qui veulent te rencontrer pour te conseiller?
Je pense qu'ils me diront la même chose ou quelque chose comme prendre un tibhar IV L avec deux vari spin 1.5mm, un grand classique chez les français x)

UpSideDownCarl · May 3, 2016

shinhyun said:
So xiom Vega pro 1.8 each side with stiga allround evo?

I think that should be fine. Both the rubbers and the blade will be a step down in speed from what you had and the net result will be several steps up in control. That setup should work well.

UpSideDownCarl · May 3, 2016

FYI: for people stepping down in pace from an Off speed blade to an Off- blade with slower rubbers, often the person feels like his/her racket is too slow and he/she can't get enough pace and power into his/her shots. If you stick with the setup for a few weeks that feeling that the equipment is slow will go away and you will get used to it.

As you get used to it, it is likely that your legs hips and core rotation will start adding more power into your strokes and at some point, the speed of the setup will feel normal. The last time I did that kind of switch it took about 1 week for the slower blade to feel really normal. But it could take as long as 2 months. It is worth using the setup for long enough for it to feel right to you.

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Olio · May 4, 2016

Va donc voir sur le forum Francais. Y a des joueurs qui te connaitront peut-etre, et tu ne trouveras pas que des conseilleurs de Varispin 1.5.
Tu peux y poster une video et obtenir de tres bons conseils.
Quant a essayer un Evolution (MXP ou autre), ce serait tellement simple s'il y avait une communaute de pongiste pres de chez toi..

D'un autre cote, si tu n'as pas de coach, jouer avec des tensors c'est pas forcement la meilleure idee hein... (et les Vega Pro, que j'apprecie enormement, sont quoi qu'on en dise des tensors.)

Olio · May 4, 2016

Va donc voir sur le forum Francais. Y a des joueurs qui te connaitront peut-etre, et tu ne trouveras pas que des conseilleurs de Varispin 1.5.
Tu peux y poster une video de ton entrainement / match, et obtenir de tres bons conseils.
Quant a essayer un Evolution (MXP ou autre), ce serait tellement simple s'il y avait une communaute de pongiste pres de chez toi..

D'un autre cote, si tu n'as pas de coach, jouer avec des tensors c'est pas forcement la meilleure idee hein... (et les Vega Pro, que j'apprecie enormement, sont quoi qu'on en dise des tensors.)

Olio · May 4, 2016

Va donc voir sur le forum Francais. Y a des joueurs qui te connaitront peut-etre, et tu ne trouveras pas que des conseilleurs de Varispin 1.5.
Tu peux y poster une video de ton entrainement / match, et obtenir de tres bons conseils.
Quant a essayer un Evolution (MXP ou autre), ce serait tellement simple s'il y avait une communaute de pongiste pres de chez toi..

D'un autre cote, si tu n'as pas de coach, jouer avec des tensors c'est pas forcement la meilleure idee hein... (et les Vega Pro, que j'apprecie enormement, sont quoi qu'on en dise des tensors.)

shinhyun · May 7, 2016

Just got the blade today : the stiga allround evo looks different to the tb alc, the surface of the stiga blade is a bit taller than the tb and more "oval", the handle is round and not square, these things made the blade heavier than the tb alc, despite of the 1.8mm of the xiom Vega pro, it is still a little bit heavier than my former setup (tb alc t05 max and r7s max). I hope this will not give me trouble x)
I have bounced the ball and I feel the vibration of the blade which is a lot than with the tb alc !
Well I will test this monday, be ready for the feedback !

trying to put things in the right way

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