My version of Jun Mizutani serves

Siva Schopenhauer · May 3, 2016

hi guys, once again with a new video series. I would like to know what do you think about those serves. If I can help you with something regarding this serve, also share it with me. As always. thnks for watching

chuckjordan2 · May 3, 2016

I always like watching. All the videos. Always willing to learn more.
Now to emulate them.
Chuck

SilentRain · May 3, 2016

Nice vid. I just started adapting and learning this serve as my main serve 2 months ago. Interestingly enough, the spin, placement and pace are quite similar for the backspin ones. We both even have the same problem, that is the bounce is still slightly too high for the backspin serve. I've been trying to fix it but still no real improvements as of yet. I think you can improve as a content provider by explaining how to perform the serve in the video. Like where to contact the ball and how. I dont need it but most people who want to learn a serve will probably come across your video by using a simple google search. You already demonstrated that you are capable of doing it, now comes the part where you teach it.

Either way, keep up the good work

UpSideDownCarl · May 3, 2016

The serves are pretty nice, as usual and it is not so much like the player's that you are trying to emulate as you think. But none the less, the serves are pretty nice.

Here, watch this video of Werner Schlager. Somewhere in here he explains and shows how Mizutani does his serves. It would help you understand more of what he is doing. Where, your contact is pretty similar to your last video that was supposed to be an imitation of Ma Long:

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Shuki · May 3, 2016

Nothing like mizutani's serves but still great serves. sorry if this offends you.

UpSideDownCarl · May 3, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
The serves are pretty nice, as usual and it is not so much like the player's that you are trying to emulate as you think. But none the less, the serves are pretty nice.

Here, watch this video of Werner Schlager. Somewhere in here he explains and shows how Mizutani does his serves. It would help you understand more of what he is doing. Where, your contact is pretty similar to your last video that was supposed to be an imitation of Ma Long:

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Well, I looked at this video and it used to be longer. I could not find a longer version though. And it appears that it has been cut off before he does the full initiation of Jun Mizutani's serve. But when he is showing "upspin" and "downspin" with the same motion, he is using the motion that Mizutani serves and you can see that motion where the racket has a big curve is very different than how Siva's serve the racket flattens out from under the ball.

Suga D · May 3, 2016

Hey Siva, nice serves. I like the slow-mo parts where one can see the ball contact pretty much. Quite decent amount of spin. Not sure if criticizers do get the same amount. But anyway: (as my jamaican friend would say: Mi nah business.)
So....
Good job.
You could of course rename your vid to e.g. "Siva showing ghost serve" or, "siva showing pendulum serve" and so on. This would give people smaller target areas to your given names. But you could also just don´t mind...

Siva Schopenhauer · May 4, 2016

chuckjordan2 said:
I always like watching. All the videos. Always willing to learn more.
Now to emulate them.
Chuck

Hey thanks Chuck. This post makes me feel that my efforts are meaningful. I am trying little harder to improve the presentation. One thing which I learned from this experience is each serve has its own uniqueness. Especially with resect to serve height, quality of spin and general feel.

This in turn makes me appreciate the beauty of table tennis, talent of the players you emulate. Such a satisfaction when you get that feel.

Cheers, Thanks a lot again for watching

Siva Schopenhauer · May 4, 2016

SilentRain said:
Nice vid. I just started adapting and learning this serve as my main serve 2 months ago. Interestingly enough, the spin, placement and pace are quite similar for the backspin ones. We both even have the same problem, that is the bounce is still slightly too high for the backspin serve. I've been trying to fix it but still no real improvements as of yet. I think you can improve as a content provider by explaining how to perform the serve in the video. Like where to contact the ball and how. I dont need it but most people who want to learn a serve will probably come across your video by using a simple google search. You already demonstrated that you are capable of doing it, now comes the part where you teach it.

Either way, keep up the good work

Hi Silentrain, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Actually I just shoot this video while creating content for Yoshimura Maharu style serve tutorial. So actually didn't record my thought process for the video.

Yes, I really understand your concern. Did you see my contact explanation video for ML backspin. Is it anything good? It would be great if you could provide a feedback for this video because I could incorporate your suggestions in the forthcoming videos. Actually learning Adobe premiere pro, to improve the presentation aspect. But, there is always a cost of time switching. I genuinely get the point, I will work harder to improve the presentation aspect.

Again, thanks a lot for watching.

This is the backspin contact video:

Siva Schopenhauer · May 4, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
The serves are pretty nice, as usual and it is not so much like the player's that you are trying to emulate as you think. But none the less, the serves are pretty nice.

Here, watch this video of Werner Schlager. Somewhere in here he explains and shows how Mizutani does his serves. It would help you understand more of what he is doing. Where, your contact is pretty similar to your last video that was supposed to be an imitation of Ma Long:

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Hi Upside, Thanks for sharing your view. But, actually I learned the concept for this demo exactly from Werner schlager's Video. For Backspin contact, I went under the ball completely. But, generating backpsin with inclined contact would actually add sidespin into it. I didn't want that for demo.

your contact is pretty similar to your last video that was supposed to be an imitation of Ma Long:

I have to say that it is completely different because the serve movement is kind of loop motion by moving the hand from backward to forward and then repeating it again to contact. The idea is to gain momentum from this motion instead of depending on weight transfer from lower body to upper body. Also here i am not depending on a lot of power from upper body,. Instead allowing the dance motion and high toss to do the job.

This video I shot before a month, but felt awkard to share it. i am using the same principle of what Werner schlager says:

This is Mizutani's ghost spin

Thanks a lot for watching and sharing your views

Siva Schopenhauer · May 4, 2016

Shuki said:
Nothing like mizutani's serves but still great serves. sorry if this offends you.

Thanks Shuki for sharing your view

BTW, what does Shuki mean?

Siva Schopenhauer · May 4, 2016

Suga D said:
Hey Siva, nice serves. I like the slow-mo parts where one can see the ball contact pretty much. Quite decent amount of spin. Not sure if criticizers do get the same amount. But anyway: (as my jamaican friend would say: Mi nah business.)
So....
Good job.
You could of course rename your vid to e.g. "Siva showing ghost serve" or, "siva showing pendulum serve" and so on. This would give people smaller target areas to your given names. But you could also just don´t mind...

Hey Suga, Thanks for sharing your support. I have tried adapting slo mo into all forth coming videos. Actually, learning premier pro to zoom into the video to show the contact. Not successful yet. But, definitely would add that feature into the video soon
.
Mi nah business says it all

I can't change the name to the mentioned because who in the world would would know Siva. It is a kind of marketing gimmick on which the world runs.

Evolution says adapt or die. I would like to adapt

UpSideDownCarl · May 4, 2016

Siva Schopenhauer said:
I can't change the name to the mentioned because who in the world would would know Siva. It is a kind of marketing gimmick on which the world runs.

This is actually the only thing I was responding to. The serves are really excellent serves. You have a real skill in serving, particularly for your level. But, what you are does not seem to have much similarity to what Jun Mizutani is doing to me apart from the fact that you are moving your racket forward and back before taking the actual stroke the way JM does; so it seems like the title is a marketing ploy. Not an actual thing. The serves are great. Perhaps you are trying to serve like Jun Mizutani. But the end result is that it is a Siva Schopenhauer serve.

BTW: in the JM video you just posted, JM starts bent at the waist with his hips and torso facing back, away from the table, and when he is done with his serve his hips are facing a little forward like he is ready for the serve to come back. The bend in JM's waist causes his spine to be angled at about 45-degrees angle the ground. When JM contacts the ball, his shoulder is over the ball because his torso is at that 45-degree angle to the ground. When you contact the ball, your racket, your arm, and the ball are all completely to the left of your upright torso. You can draw a vertical line that would separate the ball/your racket/your arm from your whole torso and head. The ball, your racket and your whole arm are on one side at contact and your head, your torso and your whole body are on the other side of that imaginary vertical line. If you made a vertical line between the ball and JM's chest, his head, part of his upper back, ONLY part of his arm, and part of his left shoulder would be on the side of the line with the ball.

Also, if you look at your contact, it is about the same height above the net, but, your contact is at the height of your belly button, and JM's contact is about the height of the center of his chest. That is because he is bent and you are upright.

In your video you start with your hips facing the side and much more upright than JM. You have almost no bend in the waist. So JM uses more hips and is much lower. His forearm moves more freely and right before the real swing forward his elbow rises to get more whip from the forearm. His feet are also a little farther apart and it looks like his knees are more bent. Well, your knees look like they may be almost straight.

None of this changes that your serves are excellent. I am not saying anything about that. But there are many details about body mechanics that are too different for me to feel this really looks like a Jun Mizutani serve.

Anyway, have fun with the serve videos. If that is your marketing gimmick, good luck. It doesn't really matter to me. The serves have great spin regardless. So there is something you are definitely doing right no matter what.

ttmonster · May 4, 2016

Siva, excellent serves , I would suggest putting a flat board with rubbers on the other side to show the impact of the spin variation .

Siva Schopenhauer · May 4, 2016

BTW: in the JM video you just posted, JM starts bent at the waist with his hips and torso facing back, away from the table, and when he is done with his serve his hips are facing a little forward like he is ready for the serve to come back. The bend in JM's waist causes his spine to be angled at about 45-degrees angle the ground. When JM contacts the ball, his shoulder is over the ball because his torso is at that 45-degree angle to the ground. When you contact the ball, your racket, your arm, and the ball are all completely to the left of your upright torso. You can draw a vertical line that would separate the ball/your racket/your arm from your whole torso and head. The ball, your racket and your whole arm are on one side at contact and your head, your torso and your whole body are on the other side of that imaginary vertical line. If you made a vertical line between the ball and JM's chest, his head, part of his upper back, ONLY part of his arm, and part of his left shoulder would be on the side of the line with the ball.

Also, if you look at your contact, it is about the same height above the net, but, your contact is at the height of your belly button, and JM's contact is about the height of the center of his chest. That is because he is bent and you are upright.

In your video you start with your hips facing the side and much more upright than JM. You have almost no bend in the waist. So JM uses more hips and is much lower. His forearm moves more freely and right before the real swing forward his elbow rises to get more whip from the forearm. His feet are also a little farther apart and it looks like his knees are more bent. Well, your knees look like they may be almost straight.

Hi Carl, that's a detailed breakdown explaining the difference between the serves. It took me while to assimilate it, but I understood what you are trying to convey to me. I take it seriously as a valuable feedback. I would work on it by the table to see the difference it can bring to the quality of the serve. BTW, I also see similar kind of thing going on when ML serves. He also contact almost with the ball within the region of the chest. I just thought that it obstructs the view of the serve. But, almost all elite players have a bend upper torso, what could be the reason?

I felt that the serve mechanics of my serve was ok. But, does shifting the energy from upper torso have such a significant differenc to serve quality. I see that people like ovtcharov, samsonov don't use the upper torso-hip shift when making their serves. Could you throw some light on it?

Also you spoke about my level of play, I haven't played any competitive level of play, except for the few months in a club nearby, Curious to know where u would put me on?

Siva Schopenhauer · May 4, 2016

ttmonster said:
Siva, excellent serves , I would suggest putting a flat board with rubbers on the other side to show the impact of the spin variation .

Thanks Monster

I usually play once in a while with my friend over here. I never would want to disturb her for making videos because it would feel awkward for her when the backspin balls keep rushing to net. I haven't season flat boards with rubber. Do we have such things?

Do u mean the return boards?

ttmonster · May 4, 2016

Yes Siva, some kind of return boards ...

Siva Schopenhauer said:
Thanks Monster

I usually play once in a while with my friend over here. I never would want to disturb her for making videos because it would feel awkward for her when the backspin balls keep rushing to net. I haven't season flat boards with rubber. Do we have such things?

Do u mean the return boards?

Siva Schopenhauer · May 4, 2016

ttmonster said:
Yes Siva, some kind of return boards ...

Couldnt afford one, the ones which I have seen in internet seem to be around 800$. Do we have some cheap ones?

ttmonster · May 4, 2016

I understand , thats what I was saying flat board, may be I did not use the right word. I have seen somebody making something like that. He took a piece of wood , and stuck his used rubbers to it . He did it in a way so that he could keep it on the table and once the serve hits he would be able to tell how much spin he is able to put .

Siva Schopenhauer said:
Couldnt afford one, the ones which I have seen in internet seem to be around 800$. Do we have some cheap ones?

Siva Schopenhauer · May 5, 2016

ttmonster said:
I understand , thats what I was saying flat board, may be I did not use the right word. I have seen somebody making something like that. He took a piece of wood , and stuck his used rubbers to it . He did it in a way so that he could keep it on the table and once the serve hits he would be able to tell how much spin he is able to put .

Hey, that was a nice idea. There are some old rackets in the cellar. Possibly with some creativity I should come up with a new return board on my own. Lets see in the forthcoming video. Thanks for the suggestion

My version of Jun Mizutani serves

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