Equipment or technique: not getting enough spin

Tyler Vazquez · May 3, 2016

I'm a fairly new player having started just under a year or so ago, and I don't get to make it out to the clubs as often as I'd like to practice with better players. One thing I do notice is that most of the better players - even ones who aren't drastically better than me - still put quite a bit more spin on the ball than I can. I feel as though I practice a fair amount on my own and with family/friends who play more casually but still can't create the spin I want.

I currently use Friendly 729 FX rubber and the foam is pretty hard. I don't know if upgrading my equipment would help at all or if I should be solely focused on developing my technique.

Let me know if you can offer any advice.

Thanks!

UpSideDownCarl · May 3, 2016

Ultimately there will be someone who says this, so, why not: if you can sort out getting a short clip or two of you playing, posting video would help some of the guys from the forum help you sort things out.

I am going to assume, from the info you presented, that you don't have access to a coach because that would be the fastest method.

And as a result, I will ask you a few questions.

1) what blade are you using?
2) how old are the rubbers?
3) if you hold a ball and try to slide the edge of the ball gently across the topsheet of the rubber, will the ball slide or will the rubber grab the ball?

The truth of the matter is, it is probably more technique than equipment even if it is, to some extent, both.

If it is equipment, chances are that it is more that is equipment that would be good for someone but might not be ideal for you to learn how to brush and grab the ball.

Look for the thread about slow loops and how we got Archosaurus to realize he was hitting into the ball instead of brushing the ball and letting the topsheet really grab onto the ball. That might provide useful information as well.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

laistrogian · May 3, 2016

Equipment in general does affect how much spin you'll be generating but for the equipments to matter in the first place, you need a sufficient technique / stroke to generate spin.

This is a general problem i notice with a lot of beginners or even people around my level (USATT 1400-1500). They dont brush the ball enough on serves and pushes leaving empty balls everywhere or simply with very few backspin

passifid · May 3, 2016

as much as i find the 729FX carl is very correct there are multiple reasons that could be to blame and without information who knows they range from everything:
You're hitting too flat not driving over or brush looping the ball
the rubber is worn at the contact point/points
the rubber needs a good clean
rubber was damp
you were having an off day
there are many people who are coaches or playing a lot longer and higher level then me and really are quite helpful.

good luck

Archosaurus · May 3, 2016

What Carl said.

You're probably underestimating just how tricky a good brush contact is. Once you get the hang of it, you can start to improve, but if you don't, you'll just be doing drives for two years like I ended up doing.

The "Looping slow no spin balls" thread is pretty good. Skip all the crap on the first few pages and focus on what's been said on pages 5 and 6 mainly.

It's a bit unreasonable to assume that without deliberate practice, in under a year, you're gonna be getting a lot of spin. Even with deliberate practice, you can practice the wrong thing.

So start very easy and basic for now, and re-program your habits. Just do very simple brushing exercises first and you'll improve.

A few that are decent and helped me:

Put the ball on the table, and attempt to brush it into the net, making it roll smoothly along the surface. If it skips or hops, or doesn't accelerate smoothly, you're bumping into it.

Get some cheap painter's tape and make an O out of it by looping it together. The tape will keep the ball from moving around and lets you set it accurately. Then put some of that on the very edge of the table, near the backhand side, so you have space. Then press the ball onto the tape so it stays where it is, and start slowly trying to brush the ball over the net.

Also do these:

UpSideDownCarl · May 3, 2016

This video helps you get an idea of what contact for spin looks like:

If you used this device and made drive contact, you would bang into the wheel and probably not spin it. If you do that hard enough, you will break your blade.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

thekleifheit13 · May 3, 2016

You have the most important part down already: realizing you aren't getting much spin. Archo and I both made that mistake and it probably slowed us down a lot... Anyway, the advice posted here is great from everyone. Another thing you might try is to set a 20 oz (or 500 ml) water bottle on the table, with the cap off. Put a ball on top of the bottle so it rests in the mouth and use your FH stroke to brush it off the bottle and onto the other side of the table. That may help with your touch in brushing. Good luck!

thekleifheit13 · May 3, 2016

Also, it isn't the equipment unless you're about 1800+ USATT rating. That rubber is slow, yes, but it's pretty spinny.

Archosaurus · May 3, 2016

thekleifheit13 said:
You have the most important part down already: realizing you aren't getting much spin. Archo and I both made that mistake and it probably slowed us down a lot... Anyway, the advice posted here is great from everyone. Another thing you might try is to set a 20 oz (or 500 ml) water bottle on the table, with the cap off. Put a ball on top of the bottle so it rests in the mouth and use your FH stroke to brush it off the bottle and onto the other side of the table. That may help with your touch in brushing. Good luck!

@OP if you didn't understand my second method, it's basically this method with the bottle, described here.

The bottle is probably a bit safer for your blade and you'll not feel limited by being afraid of hitting the edge.

thekleifheit13 · May 3, 2016

Exactly why I suggested it, I tried the rolling drill and was too chicken to wreck my paddle

Archosaurus · May 3, 2016

thekleifheit13 said:
Exactly why I suggested it, I tried the rolling drill and was too chicken to wreck my paddle

Watch the Killerspin video I posted above, it shows the drill well. It's very soft and you'd really need to do things wrong to wreck your paddle.

Tyler Vazquez · May 3, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
Ultimately there will be someone who says this, so, why not: if you can sort out getting a short clip or two of you playing, posting video would help some of the guys from the forum help you sort things out.

I am going to assume, from the info you presented, that you don't have access to a coach because that would be the fastest method.

And as a result, I will ask you a few questions.

1) what blade are you using?
2) how old are the rubbers?
3) if you hold a ball and try to slide the edge of the ball gently across the topsheet of the rubber, will the ball slide or will the rubber grab the ball?

The truth of the matter is, it is probably more technique than equipment even if it is, to some extent, both.

If it is equipment, chances are that it is more that is equipment that would be good for someone but might not be ideal for you to learn how to brush and grab the ball.

Look for the thread about slow loops and how we got Archosaurus to realize he was hitting into the ball instead of brushing the ball and letting the topsheet really grab onto the ball. That might provide useful information as well.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Right now I'm just using the RTTC Friendship blade that I bought stock with that rubber. It's pretty fast (at least faster than the blade on the Joola Cobra I was using)

My rubber is only two months old and there's a fair amount of grip, but like i said the foam is harder so there's less room for the ball to sink into.

I'll check out that thread. Yeah I think my loops have too much heavy contact without enough brushing right now. Same with my serves.

Tyler Vazquez · May 3, 2016

Archosaurus said:
What Carl said.

You're probably underestimating just how tricky a good brush contact is. Once you get the hang of it, you can start to improve, but if you don't, you'll just be doing drives for two years like I ended up doing.

The "Looping slow no spin balls" thread is pretty good. Skip all the crap on the first few pages and focus on what's been said on pages 5 and 6 mainly.

It's a bit unreasonable to assume that without deliberate practice, in under a year, you're gonna be getting a lot of spin. Even with deliberate practice, you can practice the wrong thing.

So start very easy and basic for now, and re-program your habits. Just do very simple brushing exercises first and you'll improve.

A few that are decent and helped me:

Put the ball on the table, and attempt to brush it into the net, making it roll smoothly along the surface. If it skips or hops, or doesn't accelerate smoothly, you're bumping into it.

Get some cheap painter's tape and make an O out of it by looping it together. The tape will keep the ball from moving around and lets you set it accurately. Then put some of that on the very edge of the table, near the backhand side, so you have space. Then press the ball onto the tape so it stays where it is, and start slowly trying to brush the ball over the net.

Also do these:

I routinely do the first thing in this video and my racket is pretty flat so i know I'm getting at least some brushing contact on the ball. There's just definitely only a fraction of the spin created here so I must not be brushing enough.

Shiro · May 3, 2016

I used to have the some problem as you before. Recently, i learned how to get more spin on my strokes, including serves. The number 1 advice i learned from a coach is to always be relaxed. The more relaxed you are, the more wrist you can use. When serving, be totally relaxed and just bend your wrist quickly on contact to get maximum spin on your serves, as well as your strokes.

NextLevel · May 4, 2016

A wise coach once told me that to get proper feedback online, you need to post video of what you are doing. You have received lots of good advice, Tyler, but it may all not be proper feedback.

Tyler Vazquez · May 4, 2016

thekleifheit13 said:
Also, it isn't the equipment unless you're about 1800+ USATT rating. That rubber is slow, yes, but it's pretty spinny.

thekleifheit13 said:
You have the most important part down already: realizing you aren't getting much spin. Archo and I both made that mistake and it probably slowed us down a lot... Anyway, the advice posted here is great from everyone. Another thing you might try is to set a 20 oz (or 500 ml) water bottle on the table, with the cap off. Put a ball on top of the bottle so it rests in the mouth and use your FH stroke to brush it off the bottle and onto the other side of the table. That may help with your touch in brushing. Good luck!

NextLevel said:
A wise coach once told me that to get proper feedback online, you need to post video of what you are doing. You have received lots of good advice, Tyler, but it may all not be proper feedback.

Okay, I will post a video soon!

UpSideDownCarl · May 4, 2016

More info, does the blade have carbon? It sounds like it is fast. That can encourage you to bang the ball and not brush it.

But video is the best advice.

If the blade is too fast, then a slower all wood blade with some softer rubbers like Xiom Vega Europe may be good for helping you learn how to make the right contact for spinning the ball.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

UpSideDownCarl · May 4, 2016

Something like:

Yasaka Sweden Extra

With Xiom Vega Europe on both sides

Would probably help you feel how to get the ball to sink into the topsheet and some of the sponge without bottoming out while you brush and pull your racket past the ball.

And it is likely that what you are doing now is making direct contact instead of brushing and pulling past the ball.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Baal · May 4, 2016

You hear this a lot on forums; "I' m not getting enough spin", and then the questions about technique vs equipment start in. I think more often the problem is people at the level of the OP just can't keep the ball on the table for any length of time with consistent controlled topspin.

Once you can do that, and more importantly do it when you have to move to get to the ball, THAT is the time to worry about if you are getting enough spin.

Because actually, once you can do that, you ball WILL have more spin and you probably won't be worrying about it anymore. Getting to the point where you can do that, it honestly doesn't matter a lot if you are using all-wood or some sort of composite blade, assuming it's not something insanely fast like a Xiom Axelo or something like that.

Spin can come naturally if you are in the right place and relaxed when you hit the ball. You can't be thinking about it.

Multiballs until you drop!!

Tyler Vazquez · May 4, 2016

Okay here's a video of me practicing a few shots. I've received a lot of great advice so far and if anybody can help me create more brushing contact that would be great!

Equipment or technique: not getting enough spin

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