Same rubber on both sides for offensive players

I am probably the biggest opponent of the concept of a BH rubber. Such threads nauseate me.

That said, as someone who has used the same rubber on both sides 95%+ of the time in my TT playing, sometimes even Chinese rubber, I think stroke speed and technique makes a big difference. My backhand is often as powerful as my forehand so I have no problem using the same rubber on both sides. I also try to do similar things on both sides. But if I had a more powerful stroke on one side than the other side, then it would make sense to use different rubbers in order to optimize that. Or if not different rubbers, different sponge thicknesses.

I'm probably too low of a level to know better, but I'll throw my two cents in an act a fool anyway. My first four setups had the same rubber on both sides (H3N, SuperFX, 999T, and 2008XP; in that order). My coach suggested keeping a tacky rubber on FH because he said it fits my style; however, he wanted me to go to a high throw, non-tacky rubber on BH. As soon as I did, my BH was just as powerful as my FH and I have a much better success rate with flicks/flips, too. The tacky rubbers helped me learn to read spin better and forced me to increase hand speed, so they served a purpose in development. But to be competitive, the extra speed and lower sensitivity to spin on BH have helped even more. Again, that's just a 1200 ping pong player gone TT player's opinion.

The notion that you MUST have different rubbers on both sides is nonsense. You choose the rubbers that suit your needs. That means you can use the same rubber on both sides if you want or have different ones if that works for you. FYI Im a two wing looper and i definately prefer different rubbers on both side but thats because I play both sides very differently. I also think your theory is slightly flawed because once you adjust to the different rubbers, your brain will already compute that when calculating a shot so there is no significant delay in the long run. In fact, if you play both sides differently, using different rubbers will probably let you perform better assuming you know what you want and need.

Baal said:

Definitely my theory might be flawed and brain might easily and rapidly compute the different surfaces given the familiarity. Not that long ago that is exactly what I would have said and I would not have even questioned it.

But now I do question it, very much so. I know full well that I am unlikely to convince very many people to even put it to the test.

Again, I am convinced that a lot of people use different rubbers on each side because they are convinced that this is what they should do because it sounds so reasonable, and nobody has ever suggested that there may be a neurological/cognitive liability to it. It is THE dominant table tennis forum EJ paradigm. I come back to the fact, though, that among really high level European, Japanese, and American offensive players, almost all use the same rubber on both sides

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Although the table is symmetric, the game itself is played asymmetrically. We stand to one side, and we even favor one particular wing. Strategies revolve around one side or the other. The muscles in your arm are asymmetric in regard to the forehand stroke and the backhand stroke. The brain is very complex and can easily adapt to using whatever is on the paddle, but the use of different types of coverings is to help enhance the physical attributes of the forehand and backhand strokes.

The other advantage of two types of rubber is the increased arsenal of weapons available. If you look at service, you suddenly have more tricks to use with spin techniques and speed. You also open up a wider range of styles including chopping with long pips or mixing it up with an inverted chop. Then you also see the Chinese players flipping to smash. Sure they could use their forehand side to smash, but they also now have the option to use a less tacky side for a more effective smash.

With the pros using the same rubber on both sides, those may still be fine tuned to maximize the benefit to either forehand or backhand. Ma Long is an example using a softer sponge on the backhand side. Other pros might be doing the same with different sponge hardness and thickness. You could argue that it makes it more convenient to simply use the exact same rubber on each side, but on the flip side, since you are legally allowed to use different rubbers, why handicap yourself?

I am an all-round attacker and I always play with same rubbers on FH and BH. But I don't believe there is a certain "must" around using same or different rubbers. I play as good as my talent, my physical condition and my training hours allow me. Generally I think we give more credit to equipment matters than we should.

I think we need to keep things simple. Beginners should always start with the same rubbers on either side and then adjust blade and rubbers on the ever-developing mechanics and strategy.

me thinks u think too much
just play with whatever you want

I believe the brain is good enuf to get used to these differences so it doesnt really matter much. (therefore you try and use a rubber that plays to ur strengths like eg. spin/tempo)

As a former scrooge, I minimized expenses and used a modern rubber on FH and a less expensive control rubber on BH.

On BH wing, I can get by with any max rubber not anti or pips.

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I think it depends on your level. When your playing style on each wing is more linear and you can only do certain strokes on fh and certain ones on your backhand a specific DIFFERENT rubber would help each at the aspect you play in.

For example if you loop with your forehand and can only hit more flat-hit or block with your backhand it wouldn't make sense to use a spin sensative rubber like tenergy 05, 2.1 thickness on the backhand aswell as your forehand. But if you're more well rounded with a mixture of grazing and flatter shots together I think matching fh and bh rubber would be a good choice.

I don't think this matters that much. I think, if a pips player can get used to two rubbers that are so different and get used to using both on both sides, then our brains can get used to a lot of things.

The amount of difference between the 2008XP that Der_Echte used to use on his BH and the Aurus that he used to use on FH was absolutely huge. He still played fine with that setup. Would he play better with the same rubber on both sides? He might. But I think that might be more because the rubber he generally uses on his BH is way lower quality than the rubber he uses on his FH.

I've used different on FH and BH. I've used the same on FH and BH. If I have a setup with two different rubbers and I decide to flip and use BH on FH and FH on BH, I can adjust within a few shots to the switch and be fine.

I know, when I used to skate ramps I was very fussy about the skates. If I switched from one skate to a different skate that had a lower heel or a different length wheel base (frame) I couldn't stand it. Then there were guys who changed skates every 10 min and were fine.

With rackets I feel like I can change and get used to pretty much anything fairly quickly. But everyone is different. So, as far as I am concerned, you can use the same rubber on both sides and it will usually work. And you can choose different rubbers for each side and that will usually work as well.

But I guess problems could occur when someone thinks you have to have different on both sides. Or someone else thinks you have to have the same on both sides.

Using the same model of rubber on both sides should be a table tennis rule.

I think both arguments are wrong if were trying to generalise an equipment suggestion here. In fact I think ALL generalisations on equipment suggestions are wrong.

I've literally said it hundred of times, there isn't a single absolute answer on the question of "what rubber/blade should I use?". It always comes down to how the equipment is going to fit your style of play.

Yes Baal you made a solid point on having to process more information for asymmetric rubber setup, but the simple fact is that people have different stroke styles on the BH and FH and thus a symmetric rubber setup simply wont work sometimes.

Take my setup for example. I can do any shot on FH with a rather high consistency with a heavy emphasis of spin and less so of speed. My BH is more for blocking and punch shots as I still dont have the confidence to always open up with a topspin shot on my backhand, instead Id rather side step and use my FH for the job.

So if I am to use Bryce Highspeed, which is one of the fastest rubber ever made with a huge deficit in term of spin when compared to a T-05, on both side of my bat, my forehand's style of play will be completely out of place and in turn cause me a lot of errors due to the low throw and my shot will lack power and spin.

I am speaking from experience here. I actually bought it for my FH then moved it onto the back. Didnt expect it to be so good on BH. Also, ignore the MXP since I only bought it because it was going for cheap.

Baal said:

By the way, if all I manage to do here is get one or two people to question the EJ assumption that a weak side can and should be fixed using an equipment (rubber) change then I will be happy. Maybe one person will, instead of starting a thread on "Help Me Choose a Backhand Rubber" will at least try the simplest thing -- the same thing they have on their forehand. If that fails continually, then maybe something else is needed.

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Many of the people who start such threads are CNT fanboys or use Chinese rubber on FH with hard sponge so I am not sure your advice will work for them. For the rest, it is sound, IMO.

I think at higher levels, the same rubber would be better. Recently I decided, "okay, I've got good feeling and I've got a lot of my strokes down, time to go back to tenergy instead of this softer slow stuff I use for feeling and improving." I decided t05 on both sides because I'm a firm believer in having both sides the same being a better thing.

Now what I've noticed is that my backhand wasn't quite as solid as I thought it was and I actually used the feeling from the softer rubber as a way to judge the opponents spin. My backhand needed work so I switched back on that and kept the T05 on my forehand because it felt like it didn't need the work.

Now here's where I think the point Baal is making is extremely sound. When I kept T05 on my forehand, my backhand didn't have quite the bounce back that my forehand had, which caused me to have to go more through the ball with my backhand and have a more active stroke on all my strokes. Switching from forehand to backhand became extremely difficult because the speed of each rubber was different and that's not something I was used to.

Maybe not all of you have the same to the extent I was having when switching from one rubber on forehand to another on my backhand. But surely theres SOME of that processing problem in your brain that you aren't noticing. Wouldn't it help to not have extra processing needed?

Yes I understand once you get used to it the processing is quicker and you feel like there actually isn't processing between the two, (that's how fast it becomes). but it's still additional processing that you didn't need to have.

I prefer different rubbers

Baal said:

This is something I have been thinking about for awhile.

There is a very pervasive EJ assumption that you see on table tennis forums that it is always better to use a different rubber on BH than on FH, even for players who try to play a fairly standard two winged offensive game. I bought into it myself for years.

How many threads have been written on "help me choose a BH rubber" etc. etc. Here. MyTT. OOAK forum. I can't even count how many times I have seen variations on that. It is an Article of Faith for EJs. Nobody ever challenges it.

A lot of players who defend that idea say "my BH is a very different stroke from my FH, so I need something different". Often people opt for something softer or slower, etc. etc. on the BH side. (Note that I am not talking about defenders or blockers who might use LP, or people who like SP on say the BH, I am talking about conventional two wing offensive players who play inverted both sides).

A lot of people buy into that idea so thoroughly and defend it strongly have never actually really tried spending any time with the same thing on both sides, at least not in a very long time!!!!!

My theory challenges that idea. It says that while in isolation one rubber may seem to fit a certain stroke better, the fact that you have different rubbers on each side adds to the computational complexity your brain's sensorimotor systems have to do, and therefore contributes to making more errors. I would add that using the the same rubber on each may cause strokes on each side to become more similar.

This theory can only be tested by trying it for awhile. I put the idea out there, admittedly as a theory, just in case other people might want to try it.

I have been doing this for awhile and it is working very well for me, and if anybody wants more to elaborate on why this might be something worth trying, I will. The other thing I have noticed is that the higher the level of the European/American/Japanese player (excluding Chinese players who like to use very tacky hard boosted rubbers on the forehand), the more likely they are to use the same rubber on both sides. That is what got me to asking, why is that?

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Hi
I prefer different rubbers.
1) because on FH I play with rotation and I Play Tenergy 05 has good rotation, on BH I play Bryce Speed FX is easy to block and I prefer fast game under table
2) I like on FH side heavier rubber this is better or my game

Baal said:

It is also possible that instead of writing "processing more slowly" I should have written "processing incorrectly".

So Shuki, if you are willing, maybe you can try the experiment for two weeks. Use the same rubber on both sides. T05 is a good choice. It may be uncomfortable at first. But then ask yourself, after a couple of weeks, what happens when you are under pressure from your opponent? Also, are you more consistent at opening from both sides? In general, are you keeping the ball on the table more? It may not be a dramatic effect. Nobody will go from 1400 to 2000 in six weeks by doing this. But in our sport the difference between making and missing a shot, and between winning and losing a game can be pretty small. I am simply wondering if this might optimize a player's talents. I am wondering if (for example) people who use a slower and more spin-resistant inverted on the backhand to protect that weaker side are paradoxically making things worse, not better?

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I'm actually back to T05 on both sides for a bit until June 6th, thats when I have a my next tournament and I'm not going to be flopping around with equipment the weeks right before it.

I like your point of:
"I am wondering if (for example) people who use a slower and more spin-resistant inverted on the backhand to protect that weaker side are paradoxically making things worse, not better?"

But I don't think I'm a good example of this, what I've notice improve my strokes the most with equipment, is rubber with more feeling. It's not that my regular rubber "rasant grip" is that spin-resistant to the opponents balls. It's closest feeling to describe is saying it's an FX-P clone.

My game makes me very comfortable blocking with my backhand against people with a higher proportion of spin to their speed. A spinny loop I can block very comfortable with my backhand with both rubbers. The problem is when they have very little spin on the ball, a dead ball that I try to block I can't get an angle on and I need a more active stroke to go through since I graze everything (I'm learning to just not graze blocking no-spin and things are getting better). So with T05 I was actually blocking better, I didn't need to go through the ball as much to get it to go somewhere on the dead balls to my backhand. But what I noticed with it is that the loss in feeling has caused me to lose confidence on the more active ones where I'd before comfortable go through the ball.

Especially on service to my backhand, I have no confidence with how quickly it seems to come off my rubber compared to before so I'm REALLY just trying to read the ball and get the right angle to return it rather than to do a backhand flick that I used to be so comfortable with. In the past, I knew what was a problem with my flicks going too upward, playing it safely and flipping it allowing high level players to capitalize if it wasn't placed well. I should have taken what I knew about my flick problem into consideration before switching to tenergy. Now my flicks when long because of how upward my flick was, and tenergy being faster. Boom, my problem amplified and now I'm scared to even flick and work on improving it. I understand that this problem should have just been something that tenergy would actually help me with. It would teach me to go more forward. But as a controlling player, when I lack the confidence in a stroke, I just won't go for it, I simply don't have the balls and tenergy is not for me if I want to improve.

I'm changing back to my old rubber after the 6th for a while until my weaknesses aren't as weak. Then I'll probably come back again. Feeling is most important for improving strokes for me. Tenergy does allow good feeling, but not quite AS good as some others. And switching back on one side and not the other is out of the question I've realized because there's quite a bit of processing between rubbers that I don't want to add to my problems as a player trying to improve.

Mardosta said:

Hi
I prefer different rubbers.
1) because on FH I play with rotation and I Play Tenergy 05 has good rotation, on BH I play Bryce Speed FX is easy to block and I prefer fast game under table
2) I like on FH side heavier rubber this is better or my game

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Response to 2).: Do you like the weight of your blade being heavy on your backhand too? having a heavy forehand makes the whole paddle heavy.

Response to 1).: Have you tried using the same rubber on both sides and seeing if it worked out? You've explained what you like about each on the side you've chosen but you didn't say one hurt your game on the other side. If you've tried both for a good period of time on each side then props. But if you've only tried them for a little while (few training sessions) and decided it didn't work then you're making the decision based on yourself not really adjusting your strokes to it fully.