Same rubber on both sides for offensive players

But what about using different rubbers on two sides, but sticking to the same combination for a long time? I don't think that it is EJing.

Ilia Minkin said:

But what about using different rubbers on two sides, but sticking to the same combination for a long time? I don't think that it is EJing.

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I don't think this applies to players who use drastically different rubbers on both sides like you though ilia. Your brain can disassociate each of your two wings since they're so different. It's similar to having pips on one side and not developing the same kinds of strokes in each side.

i've tried same front and back with 729fx 729fx soft and sriver g3. it worked fine when i was just learning and it worked fine with sriver. i've also used similar rubbers fron and back h3 neo + tg3 neo, Flextra and sriver EL and also very different rubbers front and back. globe 999 and sriver, H3 and rhyzm, H3-50 and stiga airoc astero and i've also had the pleasure of using t05 of both sides for a while. i agree with the sentiment shuki makes.
with the same rubber it was fine and also very easy to tell where a shot went wrong on one wing if i could do the same on the other. Also it made it easier to return tricky serves because if i worked it out on my BH i had to just try to copy the same thing on FH
but it wasn't for me as I found i couldn't get what i wanted from my sriver FH side with my stroke style, i got used to it after using G3 for 5-6 months but i went back to a H3 varient and am much more happy. however i find that i much prefer quicker euro style BH, as said there are negatives to this like having to re work the exact angle on a new serve which is placed on a different side of the table but i am much more confident with it this way around.
however i would question the wisdom of my H3 TG3 bat which really i just did the same strokes and had no need for a different rubber on each side.

I don't think using the same rubber on both sides will cure any EJ's, I've used the same rubber on both sides for most of my table tennis career but was still experimenting with new blades and rubbers the whole time. It was more "maybe softer would be better." then i'd try a softer rubber, then move to a faster one, then move to a chinese rubber. Or whatever my ej curiosities would lead me to. Even Baal, a player who's been using a viscaria and t05 for a few years now sometimes strays from the path and fiddles with something else. I think most recently it was a zhang jike alc or something like that. Maybe this was someone else.

Ej syndrome isn't curable, its just something you need to try and fight back whenever the thoughts creep up on you again. And you need to pray that you don't relapse.

Look. There is nothing wrong with using the same rubber on both sides. It is fine to do.

But there is also nothing wrong with using different rubbers on each side. My example of a pips player who twiddles was specifically that he technically is used to two different setups because he uses a pips and a smooth rubber on his forehand; and also on his backhand. When I have had 2 different rubbers on my FH and BH I was totally fine twiddling and using the BH rubber on FH for a few shots and vice versa.

Perhaps some people get used to changes more quickly and others take longer to adjust to changes.

But it is not a big deal either way: so one player can just use the same rubber on both sides and be fine. And another player can use different rubbers on each side and be fine.

I actually have a feeling that this thought and idea is just another manifestation of how we overthink equipment.

Sometimes those guys who open a thread looking for a BH rubber are overthinking things. Sometimes a person starts a thread like that because they are having trouble with the rubber they have on their BH but their FH rubber is working.

For Shuki, whether he realizes it or not, what he described sounded like he would do better with a different rubber on BH.

I am actually ready to guess that if he tried T05fx for BH while using T05 for FH that might actually work for him. T05fx on both sides might work for him as well.


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There shouldn't be an unwritten rule that you need different rubbers on FH and BH. That's silly. But there also shouldn't be one that you need the same rubbers on both sides.

Trust me, if you have ever met Der_Echte his processing speed and ability is just fine using an $8.00 rubber on BH and a $50.00 rubber on FH.


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i actually know a lot of good players who use t05 on both sides. i think people should always start with the same rubbers in the beginning and see if they want to change something as they progress. personally, my backhand loop is not as consistent as my forehand loop, so if i try playing backhand with a rubber that's perfect for my forehand i lose consistency. on the other hand if i put the softer rubber on my forehand i still have the same consistency but i lose power.

I think that one sane reason for someone to have a harder rubber for forehand and and a softer one for backhand is counterloop. In general, it is easier to spin with a softer rubber, but once you're trying to counterloop some fireballs sent at you, soft sponge becomes unpredictable (well, or I'm doing something wrong). So it makes perfect sense to play with a soft rubber on BH to make things easy, and to play with a hard one on FH to counterattack.

UpSideDownCarl said:

I am actually ready to guess that if he tried T05fx for BH while using T05 for FH that might actually work for him. T05fx on both sides might work for him as well.
Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

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This definitely crossed my mind, but then I also remembered that I shouldn't have gotten T05 and I just had an impulse buy. After spending 150$ on rubber I'm going to use it.

My ej syndrome was dormant for more than half a year. Can't beat this disease :/

I think there is no rule.

I don't find it easier to play with the same rubber both sides. There are rubbers that work great FH / BH while others just don't fit one wing well, so I just will end um using the same rubber on FH and BH if this is my favorite rubber on FH and also on the BH. Back in the day I used Mark V on both sides, but there were not a lot of options available for this stile, it was pretty much Sriver or Mark V. Nowadays there are a lot of viable options.

What I can tell you is that I particularly don't feel a rubber the same way on BH and FH, so the "same rubber" logic is nonsense for me, but may be a must for others.

Baal said:

The unspoken assumption behind this comment seems to be that rubber asymmetry should be the default configuration and yet nearly every elite shakehand offensive player from Europe or Japan uses the same inverted rubber on both sides. There must be some reason that guys whose livelihood depends on it in large measure do it that one way, whereas the conventional wisdom on table tennis forums is that people should use different inverted on BH side. So I am just wondering if it not possible asymmetry is a product of over-thinking not the reverse.

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I think the reason the pro's use the same rubber on both sides is because they have enough time and energy to invest in TT to be able to develop both wings to the same degree. That's the ideal for all of us, I think, is to be deadly on both sides. But a lot of us don't have that kind of time or coaching resource, so we develop one wing to be our "kill" wing and one to be our control wing. Now, if I'm gonna look to kill with a rubber, I'm gonna want as much spin and speed as possible. But to control the game, I'm gonna go with something that has adequate spin and speed but its greatest attribute is control. At the higher levels, where people CAN develop both wings, having both rubbers the same is a great idea and a sign of being well-rounded. It also works for beginners who have no idea what their strengths and weaknesses are. But for guys (like me) in the middle ground, who are trying to create one strength while mitigating a metric azz-ton of weaknesses, different rubber for each side works better. Bottom line is, it all comes down to each specific case

Baal said:

The unspoken assumption behind this comment seems to be that rubber asymmetry should be the default configuration....

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Nah, Baal, that was someone else. You have me wrong. You must have been reading what someone else wrote.

If you missed what I said it was that for some people, the same rubber on both sides is better. For others, that is not the case. The reasons why one person may be better off with the same on both sides and another person may be better off with different rubbers for FH and BH are many and varied.

Trying to think that there should be a rule for either both the same, or two different misses the point that people are people and we are all different and sort of unique.

Trying to figure out ideas, conceptions, reasons and theories for thinking people should use different rubbers on FH and BH is overthinking the EJ issue. But so is trying to figure out ideas, conceptions, reasons and theories for why people should use the same rubber on FH and BH.

We are adaptable and many people can do either. Some people should have the same on both sides. Some people shouldn't.

I've had the same on both sides, different on each side and neither was bad, both were good, both worked fine. I adjusted to whichever setup was in my hand without too much of a fuss. But I know some guys who are very fussy about equipment.

Personally, I think that sometimes that fussiness is psychological. And I don't think we need to over think the issue of whether you should use the same rubbers on both sides or whether you shouldn't.

Timo Boll is pretty great--despite his getting older--with T05 on both sides. I'm not going to argue that that works. It definitely works for him. But FZD is pretty good with two completely different kinds of rubbers on FH and BH. There are plenty examples of both. I think it is because either is possible and either could be fine depending on the person. For some people one will work better than the other.

So let's not overthink either. We don't need to insist people need different rubbers on each side because not everyone does. And we don't need to insist people need the same rubbers on each side because that won't work for everyone either.

Humans are way to complicated to come up with overly simplified rules about stuff like this.

UpSideDownCarl said:

There shouldn't be an unwritten rule that you need different rubbers on FH and BH. That's silly. But there also shouldn't be one that you need the same rubbers on both sides.

Trust me, if you have ever met Der_Echte his processing speed and ability is just fine using an $8.00 rubber on BH and a $50.00 rubber on FH.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

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If the DEEP SPACE phone didn't disclose it yet, the TRUE reason I started to use XP 2008 Super Power on BH was that i was too much a cheepskate to buy a couple of $50 USD rubbers every two months. Even when TAK9.com was giving me two rubbers every two months for being on the Korea Foreign squad, I still used XP 2008 on BH and liked it. Why?

I later discovered I could open up and play fast on BH wing just fine with that rubber, which is a poor man's Sriver, ut heavier and different properties. Still, it was an OFF control rubber and that is what I needed on BH wing.

I now use Tibbhar Evolution MX-P on FH and Nexy Elpis on BH. Elpis is the same class, a control rubber with a little pop in it. I got 5 months of 5X a week use outta MX-P. I changed it, but i coulda gotten more outta it. Even now even if I can get MX-P real cheap, I still will change it out only every few months. It plays fine without tuner effect for me.

I COULD spend just the money on one FH rubber and TWO of them and just use MX-P on both wings, I might play a little better. Last time I used a bat with MX-P on both sides, Carl was getting sick of counting the number of times in a row my strong loops were landing. (It was HIS bat)

I say a player should select equipment that is SUITABLE for his style/game and feeling, yet have the most destructive results on opponents within the realistic financial means of the player. This is both a very wide range of rubbers and for some situations (Think of Archos last deal to get rubbers) a slim pick.

Der_Echte, I left out the reason you used the $8.00 2008XP because I figured, anyone who didn't already know, from hearing you boast about being a cheapskate could figure it out from the price of the rubber. Besides, I figured, by leaving it out I just might get to hear some more of your stories about the old chicken and beer hustle.

Baal said:

The unspoken assumption behind this comment seems to be that rubber asymmetry should be the default configuration and yet nearly every elite shakehand offensive player from Europe or Japan uses the same inverted rubber on both sides. There must be some reason that guys whose livelihood depends on it in large measure do it that one way, whereas the conventional wisdom on table tennis forums is that people should use different inverted on BH side. So I am just wondering if it not possible asymmetry is a product of over-thinking not the reverse.

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Physically, I am sure that since we are built asymmetrically, an asymmetric rubber setup allows for better optimization. Physically, our left and right feet could benefit from customized shoes for each individual foot. But the vast majority of people don't do that. Factually, from a
physical stand point, it would benefit everyone to wear customized shoes. There is no disputing this.

But the answer I believe that you are seeking is for the original question: Why do EJs automatically seek out an asymmetric setup
and disregard whether or not it is really to their benefit? How do you explain that the majority of the pros (attacking, not defending) use a symmetric setup?

I believe the answers are psychological.
It's probably like what everyone has said already: it's just choice and coincidence. Most people likely started symmetrical and grew comfortable using such a setup. Since their livelihood depended on it, they did not want to risk change, or take time out during the season to experiment. Like most of you know, changing equipment doesn't always equal a better game. When it doesn't, you then need to find another setup, and then another, and so on. This could also explain why so many use Tenergy and are fearful of trying other rubbers that might actually fit their style better. It's too risky to change. I've seen at ICC, the kids all use Tenergy. They learn with it, and they stick with it. Their equipment shop pretty much only sold T05 and T64. Parents bring in their kids for lessons, ask for the best setup, and that's what they got.

To why EJs do it:
1) You get twice the fun and you get to compare rubbers (literally) back to back at the same time on the same blade.
2) It's only natural to emulate the best. Maybe the majority of pros have a symmetrical setup, but the very top elite players Ma long, FZD,
Xu Xin, and ZJK all use an asymmetric setup.

Baal said:

I appreciate the contrary opinion and the arguments made to support it and it's certainly not crazy, but I still suspect there is a liability to the rubber asymmetry. For one thing, what you are doing with your hands is a lot different than simply wearing shoes. I certainly get that Chinese team use pretty extreme rubber asymmetry, and I think that is paradoxically why it works.

And like I've said from the start, I may be completely off base on this. I also knew from the beginning that it would be a minority opinion.

And yet I come back to the overwhelming prevalence of rubber symmetry for elite European and Japanese players. Certainly they are just as smart as forum EJs and you would think would have explored the possibilities of some degree of optimization if rubber asymmetry was the ideal solution. These guys are not impervious to equipment choices, since some of them change blades quite a bit. Maybe it's because their strokes are pretty matched in terms of the way they hit the ball from each side (as somebody mentioned yesterday), but that explanation does not pass the eye test for me for an large number of those players.

And also my own experience, not that I am anywhere near the level of professional players.

Anyway, I don't have anything else to offer on this, certainly nothing evidence based.

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I doubt that most Euro pros have seriously tried asymmetric rubbers. Very often, people start out with similar things on both sides and play their careers that way without seriously considering something different. And just the bias of starting out with something as a child clearly plays an important role, as you know that part of the argument for why Chinese tend to use hard sponged tacky rubber.