Question about blocking...

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I've been trying to cultivate a more blocking centered style, and have a few questions on the types of rubbers to use.

The blockers I enjoy watching are Oh Sang Eun, Kenta M, He Zhi Wen, and Zhang Yining to give you an idea of how I'd like to play. Although I also enjoy a number of the lower ranked chop-blockers using LP at the table.

My question is, are long pips able to perform a similar style to these players? Or would you consider them to be more 'deception' focused with reversals and whatnot, trying to make your opponent make a mistake through misreading the spin? Whereas with inverted, you can block back fast bullets for outright winners. Off to the angles etc. And a similar style for short pips?

So, is it correct to say that LP blocking uses a slower pace with more of a reliance on the spin shifting? And SP and inverted rely more on the speed/angles when blocking?
 
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As for your question about whether Long Pips can imitate the blocking style of pros, it depends on what kind of level you are playing at. The harder the loop you are getting, long pips blocking becomes a worse idea. I would say that long pips blocking is only a viable option under 1800-2000 or so. After that, you would have to expand on your options, and learn other ways with dealing with attacks, like chopping. Same with anti. It's the reason why Mark Berg is stuck where he is.
Short pips does better.

As for the style itself, it's about making people panic about weird spins, so yes, it is about reversals and deception. You pressure the opponent with weird angles and pace.
From what I've experienced, a FAST long pips underspin block wins points from me, but those are ridiculously rare (and incredibly hard to do). As for what I've generally seen, players simply struggle with handling the spin.

As for pace, long pips can't consistently play at a fast pace, thus creating your idea of a slower pace. This is a limitation of long pips.

Personally, if nobody panicked and if everyone was able to read the spin on long pips, players wouldn't find playing against them difficult. I don't find them difficult at all, primarily because I started playing in a junk rubber environment.
 
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I've been trying to cultivate a more blocking centered style, and have a few questions on the types of rubbers to use.

The blockers I enjoy watching are Oh Sang Eun, Kenta M, He Zhi Wen, and Zhang Yining to give you an idea of how I'd like to play.

You have good taste in players, although HZW is quite different from the others because of penhold, SP, etc. etc. One thing they all have, though, is good forehands to end points.

Taking the three shakehands players, they tend not to win points outright with blocks, they are able to use a block to take control of a point. Zhang Yining was especially amazing about that. She would get attacked hard to her backhand, make a surprisingly strong block which would take her opponent by surprise, and her balance and recovery were so good and so fast that the very next ball she is hitting a winner with her forehand. I never saw anyone else, man or woman, as good at doing that. Amazing. Matsudaira has some of that in him too.

The style you are talking about is to keep the ball very low on your LP side and then attack the weaker return this evokes with a strong inverted forehand. There is a guy like that at my club, used to be around 2200, and it was a pretty tough style to deal with. The key to his success was the strength of his forehand.

But it is also a tough style to learn for reasons songdavid mentioned. I think you might be better off with SP.
 
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There are a lot of things that go into blocking and featuring blocking as a central theme to your game isn't out of the question. Personally, when I receive serve and am not attacking, I play as an allround or defensive player giving oponent a chance to attack ('causeI waz to whimp to attack hiz serve confidently - hey, at least I got a plan to play the odds - you dont win the point if you attack wildly and out) then i look to block attack until I win the point, lose the point, or can take over the point and start attacking.

There are ALL KINDS of blocks, but the common theme is you get up close to the ball and over it, this lets you see it well. If you are away a bit, then firm grip for fast block, otherwise you give too much time. If your touch is real good, then soft block when opponent is too far back.

The rubber doesn't play the most important role. Your anticipation, position over the ball, your control of grip pressure given the nature of your bat/rubber... those are more of a factor. Having a solid and heavy bat helps too, it also helps magnify and amplify the effect of your grip pressure.
 
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You have good taste in players, although HZW is quite different from the others because of penhold, SP, etc. etc. One thing they all have, though, is good forehands to end points.

Taking the three shakehands players, they tend not to win points outright with blocks, they are able to use a block to take control of a point. Zhang Yining was especially amazing about that. She would get attacked hard to her backhand, make a surprisingly strong block which would take her opponent by surprise, and her balance and recovery were so good and so fast that the very next ball she is hitting a winner with her forehand. I never saw anyone else, man or woman, as good at doing that. Amazing. Matsudaira has some of that in him too.

The style you are talking about is to keep the ball very low on your LP side and then attack the weaker return this evokes with a strong inverted forehand. There is a guy like that at my club, used to be around 2200, and it was a pretty tough style to deal with. The key to his success was the strength of his forehand.

But it is also a tough style to learn for reasons songdavid mentioned. I think you might be better off with SP.

So then, would it be fair to say that the LP setups are done mainly through spin/pace variation? And the inverted/sp mainlt through angles and outright speed? I know LPs can block to the angles also, but it seems their slow pace allows your opponent (assuming they have decent mobility...) to reach the ball in time, but perhaps still miss-hit due to the spin/pace changes?

I'm a fan of the He Zhi Wen style of "run 'em ragged" with all the side to side blocks, while he stays relatively still lol... but the LPs also interest me in their spin changes, though I don't seem to mesh well with the slower speed of the ball. I don't think there are any LPs that can match the speed of inverted blocks as consistently? I have trouble kind of "waiting it out" with the LP blocks. With inverted the blocks seem more aggressive in nature. I guess it's speed vs spin overall between the two? I mean, could you play a style like HZW or Oh Sang Eun with LPs?
 
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LPs are so different from inverted and much more limited in offensive potential. Still, up to elite amature level, a blocking centered LP on BH game is possible.

I say everyone should play with what they like and not hear crap from anybody except from a few friends in good nature. Go for it if you are interested, but it is still a lot of work to learn like anything else.
 
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LPs are so different from inverted and much more limited in offensive potential. Still, up to elite amature level, a blocking centered LP on BH game is possible.

I say everyone should play with what they like and not hear crap from anybody except from a few friends in good nature. Go for it if you are interested, but it is still a lot of work to learn like anything else.

That's part of my concern. I've been doing inverted blocks for a number of years now, and have gotten decently proficient with them! I'm wondering if it's worth trying out the LPs. Would the end result be something I'd like etc.

I've been tinkering around with them, and they are certainly nothing like inverted! From the angle to the ball reaction and everything in between! I'm finding that the reversal is what has been getting me points from them, and not so much the speed or placement. Though I usually lose way more with them than I did with inverted (no skill yet!). They seem less aggressive to me, from a speed perspective. The other people have more time to react.

Like in this video

The little chop blocks are pretty slow. Whereas with an inverted I'd be more tempted to do a quick angle out to the side/body, I'm not sure the LPs are capable of really going that route. I guess it depends on whether your opponents are better at handling spin variations or quick moving.
 
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Lord Pippington,

When I was in Korea, I had a few visits to a club with a real famous Korean Long Pips coach. I got him to agree to open up his LP video vault to everyone.

He has a LOT of vids. Too bad his explanations are in Korean and that it takes YEARS to learn Korean, but if you watch some of the stuff he is training his players on, you could watch and just see it. He can teach all pips, but specializes in teaching OX LPs. Over 1/2 of O40 Korean women use OX LP on BH, Usually Grass DTechs.

On the menu on the left, teh only English is LONG PIMPLES. Click on that one to see all the vids, they are public.

http://cafe.daum.net/youngintt

Here is hiz youtube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUn6y17F7Z-cpTH194NQnVg

This is a vid of one of his better players doing a combination drill called the "Power Push" which is really an OX LP forward HIT vs underspin, she combos that with a step around in a rally situation. This is vid ID #98 or inside the Korean 36.

http://cafe.daum.net/_c21_/bbs_read...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz&datanum=98&listnum=20


Coach is in red and he is getting an inverted player used to the stuff OX does.

OX lets you stay close to the table and disrupt and time pressure, so you might like that, but the learning curve is a mudda fudda.

 
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Same coach getting an inverted player used to the chop block. The player isn't really looping much, so you don't see coach chop down so much, sometimes inverted player is hitting pretty flat, but you see the adjustments coach is making ot control the ball and give it to the middle BH power zone to give the guy practice.

http://cafe.daum.net/_c21_/bbs_read...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz&datanum=112&listnum=20

Here he is on Youtube testing a new OX LP using chop block at mid distance.


Here he is being evil to his player with OX.


This is coach being really OFFENSIVE with his LP to a defined spot for his player.

 
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Same coach getting an inverted player used to the chop block. The player isn't really looping much, so you don't see coach chop down so much, sometimes inverted player is hitting pretty flat, but you see the adjustments coach is making ot control the ball and give it to the middle BH power zone to give the guy practice.

http://cafe.daum.net/_c21_/bbs_read...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz&datanum=112&listnum=20

Here he is on Youtube testing a new OX LP using chop block at mid distance.


Here he is being evil to his player with OX.


This is coach being really OFFENSIVE with his LP to a defined spot for his player.


So it looks like, due to the long pip design, that top spin blocks come back a bit slower from the backspin/reversal. But the long pips can return a faster 'surprise' top spin smack when returning backspin or pushes. That's the one real shot I enjoyed when using long pips. That "punch" hit on pushes or chops that send the ball back aggressively, whereas with inverted you'd either have to do a push, loop, or perhaps a flick/flip. Most people don't seem to expect a fast top spin ball when seeing a "push" on their back spins!

But I imagine when going up levels, the players would account for such things...
 
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