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Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat
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LOL
The recently posted-to Happy Birthday Table Tennis Player thread - you mentioned it
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Spin and more spin.
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LOL
The recently posted-to Happy Birthday Table Tennis Player thread - you mentioned it
That must have been 3 years ago that I mentioned it. Darn it. Doh!!!! Thanks.
See ZJK would have been truly great like me and Michael Jordan if he had only been born one day later.
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Strange block from friction anti from my loop
Ball jumps forward like a loop after hitting table rather than a dead ball bounce
I have never seen the player do that before. It happened 6-8 times over several games. I was able to chop block it with my long pips OX.
Ball jumps forward like a loop after hitting table rather than a dead ball bounce
I have never seen the player do that before. It happened 6-8 times over several games. I was able to chop block it with my long pips OX.
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Happy belated birthday!
(off-topic
I've been looking for a video you posted about 3 or 4 weeks ago, I think it was on a thread where a beginner was asking for blade advice. The video was a general coaching video where a guy is talking about how certain coaches can make players look a lot better very quickly but not actually perform better. At the time I never finished the video and I've got this feeling that if only I get to the end of that video I'll be able to get a lot more out of my coaching. Thanks in advance if you can find it again.
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I had a tournament today. First a minigroup of 3. I had a very slow start for the first game. I woke up very late, jumped out of the bed to grab a taxi to get there just in time. Almost no warmup. I lose the first set 16-14. My opponent loops from both side with some consistency but is not very good when rallies get faster. But I'm not moving well at all. I'm just trying to put the ball on the table and block well. I manage to win deuce in the decider even saving one match point but it was a poor performance and narrow escape on my side against someone that I should beat much more easily
5 matches later on the same table I play a stronger guy but this time I am more than ready. My level of play is much better and I even find myself in the zone in the opening set coming from behind with everything working. Third ball attack combos, aggressive blocks, loops , counter topspin... That doesn't last the next three sets are big fights. Lose 9 win 9 lose 9. In the second I come back from 5-10 in the fourth from 3-10 but I can't make it. In the third I was ahead all the time. In the fifth the other guy plays aggressively from the start and this time I can't make it. 6-11. Harsh.
Too bad for me and it also means I get to play a player who came on top of his group and this one was way too strong. It wasn't even a match. To make matters worse I had to go back home anyway as the tournament was falling a lot behind schedule so even if I had won this game I couldn't go on...
I'm a bit disappointed with the result of the second match, it would have been a very good win, I think I could not keep a positive enough mindset throughout the match. I was too worried at times instead of focusing on winning only. On the technical side we had different styles but I felt at least at par with my opponent. He had more courage than me in the end.
I think I need to play more tournaments and more tough matches so I don't get too emotive and manage to play at a good level consistently from the first to the last ball whatever is going on or around and not only 50% 66% or 75% only of a match
5 matches later on the same table I play a stronger guy but this time I am more than ready. My level of play is much better and I even find myself in the zone in the opening set coming from behind with everything working. Third ball attack combos, aggressive blocks, loops , counter topspin... That doesn't last the next three sets are big fights. Lose 9 win 9 lose 9. In the second I come back from 5-10 in the fourth from 3-10 but I can't make it. In the third I was ahead all the time. In the fifth the other guy plays aggressively from the start and this time I can't make it. 6-11. Harsh.
Too bad for me and it also means I get to play a player who came on top of his group and this one was way too strong. It wasn't even a match. To make matters worse I had to go back home anyway as the tournament was falling a lot behind schedule so even if I had won this game I couldn't go on...
I'm a bit disappointed with the result of the second match, it would have been a very good win, I think I could not keep a positive enough mindset throughout the match. I was too worried at times instead of focusing on winning only. On the technical side we had different styles but I felt at least at par with my opponent. He had more courage than me in the end.
I think I need to play more tournaments and more tough matches so I don't get too emotive and manage to play at a good level consistently from the first to the last ball whatever is going on or around and not only 50% 66% or 75% only of a match
Happy belated birthday!
(off-topic
Thanks in advance if you can find it again.
Jonas, was it this one?
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Yes thanks a lot.
Here's some thought that I had whilst watching that:
- table tennis is so much faster than most other sports, so much more reading and planning that you have to go through
- block practice is probably more common in table tennis than other sports, but at the same time there is obviously also a lot of random practice that people do. I wonder if it would be beneficial trying to teach someone from scratch, for example, a FH loop randomly, mixing the placement and maybe even the spin? I definitely like the idea but maybe technique in table tennis is so difficult that it can only be learnt in blocks.
-that was quite convincing and I think I am going to try to leave out 'block' practice for a while, even it will definitely make my practice sessions less fun and less pretty.
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Block practice is incredibly important in table tennis and I would not recommend one skip it entirely even if one is extremely advanced. The key is to introduce or add random elements so that the brain is challenged to make reads rather than to fall into a routine where it is not challenged and is just locked into a pattern.
For example like, people who always loop the same kind of spin will only swing at the ball in one way. People who also loop at one target at the table will always loop at that target as well. The key is to add in elements of changing location and spin as one gets more advanced to expand the skills that one brings to the game.
So I wouldn't do it from scratch but I would introduce some elements of the person had a good swing technique and then feed them backspin followed by topspin (opener then second loop) or do drills where they have to play one to the middle and one cross-court. etc.
The point is also that if the student is struggling in the beginning, impress upon the student that it should a cognitive process and that over time, the brain will make the reads faster and select and adjust properly. Just get them to focus on their technique rather than putting the ball on the table. The ball will go on the table as their brain adjusts better but if they focus on putting the ball on the table in the beginning, their technique will suffer.
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Yep, in TT you do need a certain amount of block training. You do need to keep working on technique.
But a skilled coach will know how to wrinkle in the random element even into what is basically block training.
I believe I described how Edmund Suen did this with me when he helped me rebuild my FH. But I may as well try and recount some of the ideas. Edmund was being coached by Damien Provost and Damien was helping Edmund fix my FH.
Edmund would feed the ball with slightly different placement each time. He would also change the spin slightly, more topspin, less topspin. Every so often he would load a ball with topspin. Every so often he would throw in a backspin ball, a chop block. And he also changed the pace and depth. He noticed I had trouble reading when a ball was coming shorter than the rest and how I would reach in late for those instead of adjusting my feet and body in a bit for them.
He emphasized that I had to watch his racket and read what he did to the ball.
He was also emphasizing that part of my reset needed to be resetting my feet. This went with him placing the ball slightly differently each time.
He also would aim for the net and he wanted me to be able to see the nets and readjust to them so that I would get them. Can't emphasize enough how useful that was. If you can't readjust to nets very well, you are probably not resetting fast enough. And you are likely rushing your next stroke or starting it too early. If your reset is solid and you don't start your stroke early or rush your stroke, you should be able to adjust to a good percentage of net balls. It is worth practicing because it helps correct those issues.
Then, in the same session, after working with only small random elements like what I just mentioned Edmund would start having me do a 2 point drill. But in the two point drill there were also all those small random elements. And the placement would be slightly more random than a regular 2 point drill. It was really more like the placement could be anywhere within the two points and part of what we were working on was that I needed to make sure I was watching Edmund's racket to read placement, spin, pace and depth of the ball. You can see those things off the racket.
And you can work on the basics and wrinkle in the random element a little at a time so that you are forced to read the opponent and watch his racket.
That video on block vs random training emphasizes that fundamentals are super important. But that they are only one piece of the equation.
The video also emphasizes that the improvements that happen from random training are hard to see in practice. It looks like you are making very little progress. But the real improvements show up in march play. Part of why us you are training the other elements that are an important part of real play which are reading and planning or making a decision on what technique to use. The random element does not always need to be there. But it actually helps you develop the fundamentals more solidly if you are forced to read the ball and make small adjustments to each separate ball.
Some of you may need to think about part of what I just said for a few more moments. You don't look like you improve during practice, but the results show up under pressure in real match play. Think about it.
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But a skilled coach will know how to wrinkle in the random element even into what is basically block training.
I believe I described how Edmund Suen did this with me when he helped me rebuild my FH. But I may as well try and recount some of the ideas. Edmund was being coached by Damien Provost and Damien was helping Edmund fix my FH.
Edmund would feed the ball with slightly different placement each time. He would also change the spin slightly, more topspin, less topspin. Every so often he would load a ball with topspin. Every so often he would throw in a backspin ball, a chop block. And he also changed the pace and depth. He noticed I had trouble reading when a ball was coming shorter than the rest and how I would reach in late for those instead of adjusting my feet and body in a bit for them.
He emphasized that I had to watch his racket and read what he did to the ball.
He was also emphasizing that part of my reset needed to be resetting my feet. This went with him placing the ball slightly differently each time.
He also would aim for the net and he wanted me to be able to see the nets and readjust to them so that I would get them. Can't emphasize enough how useful that was. If you can't readjust to nets very well, you are probably not resetting fast enough. And you are likely rushing your next stroke or starting it too early. If your reset is solid and you don't start your stroke early or rush your stroke, you should be able to adjust to a good percentage of net balls. It is worth practicing because it helps correct those issues.
Then, in the same session, after working with only small random elements like what I just mentioned Edmund would start having me do a 2 point drill. But in the two point drill there were also all those small random elements. And the placement would be slightly more random than a regular 2 point drill. It was really more like the placement could be anywhere within the two points and part of what we were working on was that I needed to make sure I was watching Edmund's racket to read placement, spin, pace and depth of the ball. You can see those things off the racket.
And you can work on the basics and wrinkle in the random element a little at a time so that you are forced to read the opponent and watch his racket.
That video on block vs random training emphasizes that fundamentals are super important. But that they are only one piece of the equation.
The video also emphasizes that the improvements that happen from random training are hard to see in practice. It looks like you are making very little progress. But the real improvements show up in march play. Part of why us you are training the other elements that are an important part of real play which are reading and planning or making a decision on what technique to use. The random element does not always need to be there. But it actually helps you develop the fundamentals more solidly if you are forced to read the ball and make small adjustments to each separate ball.
Some of you may need to think about part of what I just said for a few more moments. You don't look like you improve during practice, but the results show up under pressure in real match play. Think about it.
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if you do drills with your partner and block for him, thats already a drill. Your partner may be doing the footwork but you should be doing the blocking seriously, have good control and placement. The ball might all go in the same zone, but especially at our amateur level, every incoming ball will not be the same, you have to adapt.
Blocking is a relatively strong part of my game, especially on BH side. I survived my first match today thanks to it, when nothing else was working except my block. Here are the most important things in blocking
1- Lower your body. Bend your knees and also bend your upper body forward. You get a better balance, you will see the ball better you will play the ball lower. I cannot stress more how important this is. Read this 10 times.
2- After your own weak shot, it may be some kind of instinct to go back a little bit to give you an extra 10th of second to react to make a better block, but NEVER go back. When you go back, you lose your balance (see 1), your bat angle will tend to be more vertical relative to the ball. If you lose your balance or are standing on one feet, its very likely you will miss your block. If you need to block several times in a row, you should always think about restoring your balance as soon as you block the ball.
3- Go to the ball !!! a block should be done as soon as possible after the bounce. of course not at the bounce because the ball would end up in the net, but as soon as the ball is playable. The earlier you take the ball, the more control you have ! and even better, the more agressive shot it becomes ! to give even more control, especially if the upcoming ball has a lot of SPIN, relax your wrist and the racket will absorb some energy. if you take the ball too late, it will be even spinnier and more difficult to control. OK, sometimes you will see pros blocking the ball far from the table, but we're not pros...
I was already rather good at blocking but since my coach told me no3, a few months ago, my blocking game has gone one or two levels up. Some people say I'm more "countering" than blocking but really its the same base technique. When countering just take the ball even earlier and a slightly bigger swing/action.
Blocking is a relatively strong part of my game, especially on BH side. I survived my first match today thanks to it, when nothing else was working except my block. Here are the most important things in blocking
1- Lower your body. Bend your knees and also bend your upper body forward. You get a better balance, you will see the ball better you will play the ball lower. I cannot stress more how important this is. Read this 10 times.
2- After your own weak shot, it may be some kind of instinct to go back a little bit to give you an extra 10th of second to react to make a better block, but NEVER go back. When you go back, you lose your balance (see 1), your bat angle will tend to be more vertical relative to the ball. If you lose your balance or are standing on one feet, its very likely you will miss your block. If you need to block several times in a row, you should always think about restoring your balance as soon as you block the ball.
3- Go to the ball !!! a block should be done as soon as possible after the bounce. of course not at the bounce because the ball would end up in the net, but as soon as the ball is playable. The earlier you take the ball, the more control you have ! and even better, the more agressive shot it becomes ! to give even more control, especially if the upcoming ball has a lot of SPIN, relax your wrist and the racket will absorb some energy. if you take the ball too late, it will be even spinnier and more difficult to control. OK, sometimes you will see pros blocking the ball far from the table, but we're not pros...
I was already rather good at blocking but since my coach told me no3, a few months ago, my blocking game has gone one or two levels up. Some people say I'm more "countering" than blocking but really its the same base technique. When countering just take the ball even earlier and a slightly bigger swing/action.
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Just a small addition. This is a related subject but not entirely the same subject.
A lot of times when people are learning he basics, they think the most important part is learning the strokes and good form/technique. And there is no doubt that is important. But in table tennis, resetting and being in a position to pay attention to what your opponent on the other side of the table does with the ball is very important as well.
Higher level players always are skilled at seeing what is coming to them. And to play a sport/game that relies so much on spin, spin deception and ball placement, you definitely need to be paying attention to what is going on on the other side of the table. And that is truly part of fundamentals too.
If you are not working on reading what is coming at you and how to respond to it, it will be hard to get above a certain, fairly low level in this sport.
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A lot of times when people are learning he basics, they think the most important part is learning the strokes and good form/technique. And there is no doubt that is important. But in table tennis, resetting and being in a position to pay attention to what your opponent on the other side of the table does with the ball is very important as well.
Higher level players always are skilled at seeing what is coming to them. And to play a sport/game that relies so much on spin, spin deception and ball placement, you definitely need to be paying attention to what is going on on the other side of the table. And that is truly part of fundamentals too.
If you are not working on reading what is coming at you and how to respond to it, it will be hard to get above a certain, fairly low level in this sport.
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One of those times when I was hitting with Michael Landers, he saw I had trouble reading depth, slightly shorter, slightly longer. So he did this drill with me where he was mixing half long and shorter backspin balls. He was feeding multiball. The half long balls, he wanted me to over the table loop. The shorter pushes that would double bounce shorter, he wanted me to come over the table and either push or flip. Really, he wanted me to push but I wanted to flip so we compromised. [emoji2]
It was a random drill. I did not know if the next ball would be too short to loop or just long enough to loop from over the table. The largest part of the drill was trying to read the depth of the ball.
I felt I did horribly. Man I was terrible at it. But the skill of reading long and short did start clicking at some point. If I had been able to do that drill more frequently, it would have happened faster.
So much more of this sport is brain processing and reading what is coming at you than most people realize.
Technique is definitely important. But it really is useful if it is worked on side by side with reading and decision making,
Being creative in figuring out how to mix the random element in and slowly progress it while working on fundamentals would be really beneficial to the progress of most players.
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It was a random drill. I did not know if the next ball would be too short to loop or just long enough to loop from over the table. The largest part of the drill was trying to read the depth of the ball.
I felt I did horribly. Man I was terrible at it. But the skill of reading long and short did start clicking at some point. If I had been able to do that drill more frequently, it would have happened faster.
So much more of this sport is brain processing and reading what is coming at you than most people realize.
Technique is definitely important. But it really is useful if it is worked on side by side with reading and decision making,
Being creative in figuring out how to mix the random element in and slowly progress it while working on fundamentals would be really beneficial to the progress of most players.
Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
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March 18-25 I shall be in the manhattan NYC area =]
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Hardcore play, the last 4 days.
Thursday, only high level player's, breaking in fastarc g-1.
Friday: training partner, drills and then matches focusing on using energy in every point.
Saturday: Non-Sanctioned tournament, Got 2nd place. Lost to Parviz, (22-2300 usatt), to be expected. After tournament hit with our japanese god for a good two hours. Mostly him giving me advice, tips, coaching. VERY valuable 2500 player time.
Sunday: Lessons with coach, took about 3 hours of practice with her, ate, then got a call from our japanese god to come hit with him again (of course I wasn't skipping the opportunity.(
all in all, fantastic past few days.
Thursday, only high level player's, breaking in fastarc g-1.
Friday: training partner, drills and then matches focusing on using energy in every point.
Saturday: Non-Sanctioned tournament, Got 2nd place. Lost to Parviz, (22-2300 usatt), to be expected. After tournament hit with our japanese god for a good two hours. Mostly him giving me advice, tips, coaching. VERY valuable 2500 player time.
Sunday: Lessons with coach, took about 3 hours of practice with her, ate, then got a call from our japanese god to come hit with him again (of course I wasn't skipping the opportunity.(
all in all, fantastic past few days.
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Getting back to regular TT. As in 3-4 sessions a week. Played a league with friends on saturday. Lost every match. Somehow I find it tough to break out of a defeat or a certain mindset in a league.
Played a knockout tournament yesterday. Lost in 3rd round. Lost in doubles first round, though we should have played better. Repeatedly pushed cut serves into the net in doubles because I was feeling pressure from a stronger opponent. Should work on all aspects of the game, esp. receive and controlling the receive to different areas. My serves aren't very good either but it is good enough to prevent an outright return winner. My blocks and loops were good. Adaptation was not so good.
Note to self: Keep following this thread and learn from others' mistakes and drills.
Played a knockout tournament yesterday. Lost in 3rd round. Lost in doubles first round, though we should have played better. Repeatedly pushed cut serves into the net in doubles because I was feeling pressure from a stronger opponent. Should work on all aspects of the game, esp. receive and controlling the receive to different areas. My serves aren't very good either but it is good enough to prevent an outright return winner. My blocks and loops were good. Adaptation was not so good.
Note to self: Keep following this thread and learn from others' mistakes and drills.
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Went to the club and played with the teenagers as usual on Tuesdays. They are a group with a compact level around 2200-2300 level, a solid technique for looping on both sides and serve receive as well. Their main weakness may be on the tactical and mental side usually.
First I played with a boy whom I played twice only. Won 2-1 the first time after being down 6-10 saving four match points in the second, but lost straight 0-3 with tough scores last time.
I lost the first set this time 1-11 no excuse I had a decent warmup. I start to fear the worst so I give it all and maybe with a bit of luck and going in the zone I win 11-6 the aecond. In the third he makes unusual mistakes, I get at least four (almost) free points and I manage to get the third 11-9 as I make some mistakes too. In the fourth he dominates and although I fight he takes it 9. He stays strong in the fifth and is 10-7 ahead but I fight till the end staying positive and saving four match points I win 13-11 yes !!!!!!! A training match only but a really great game for me...
How did I do it this time ??? Mainly staying positive and focusing through all the match about the next two balls when serving or receiving, and not just the next one. Which means not being worried on missing the third ball attack or the receive and be ready to play one more ball all the time.
Also in the decider I changed a small detail in my BH serve being more relaxed when serving long. I got some extra spin and speed which confused him at that crucial moment and I realised he didn't like it.
Then I played his friend, a modern defender playing with pimples on BH side but sometimes switching, and from time to time counterattacking with his FH.
I never won him before losing twice full sets and twice straight. Against him it's first about dominating when attacking and then not missing pushes in rallies and avoiding being surprised by his counter-attack play. It was a great match once again. I lost the first 7 won the second 6 the third 9, lost 9 and then 8 in the decider. It's really small details and about not giving up any point and staying focused and alert. But I'm lacking something obviously as it's the fifth consecutive defeat...
Still a very good session for me
First I played with a boy whom I played twice only. Won 2-1 the first time after being down 6-10 saving four match points in the second, but lost straight 0-3 with tough scores last time.
I lost the first set this time 1-11 no excuse I had a decent warmup. I start to fear the worst so I give it all and maybe with a bit of luck and going in the zone I win 11-6 the aecond. In the third he makes unusual mistakes, I get at least four (almost) free points and I manage to get the third 11-9 as I make some mistakes too. In the fourth he dominates and although I fight he takes it 9. He stays strong in the fifth and is 10-7 ahead but I fight till the end staying positive and saving four match points I win 13-11 yes !!!!!!! A training match only but a really great game for me...
How did I do it this time ??? Mainly staying positive and focusing through all the match about the next two balls when serving or receiving, and not just the next one. Which means not being worried on missing the third ball attack or the receive and be ready to play one more ball all the time.
Also in the decider I changed a small detail in my BH serve being more relaxed when serving long. I got some extra spin and speed which confused him at that crucial moment and I realised he didn't like it.
Then I played his friend, a modern defender playing with pimples on BH side but sometimes switching, and from time to time counterattacking with his FH.
I never won him before losing twice full sets and twice straight. Against him it's first about dominating when attacking and then not missing pushes in rallies and avoiding being surprised by his counter-attack play. It was a great match once again. I lost the first 7 won the second 6 the third 9, lost 9 and then 8 in the decider. It's really small details and about not giving up any point and staying focused and alert. But I'm lacking something obviously as it's the fifth consecutive defeat...
Still a very good session for me
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Good to see you back safe in India !
I feel you're a bit too negative here. If you're receiving from a backspin serve, if its long, just loop it, if its short then push it back (long or short). go to the ball and try to get it quickly after the bounce. Go to the ball. Personally, I think its better to go with the tip of the racket ahead, a lot of players especially at lower levels, push with the side of the bat, i think you can not push well this way and the risk of the ball hitting the edge of the bat is higher.
In doubles i use chiquita quite a lot, its a whole lot easier to do than in singles match because you know better where to expect the ball when receiving.
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I have not learnt the chiquita. So I push it wide/deep and setup a relatively easy block for my partner. At my level, a well-placed push is more rewarding vs a chiquita (which I don't possess in my skillset). You are right about the defensive mindset. I am one of those who needs to hit 1000s of balls to feel any degree of confidence. Otherwise I am always in doubt. Need to work on playing freely. Wonder how to do that. Any tips?
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