Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

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I changed my setup again... The Stiga offensive classic seemed to hard for me. I put the the T05 on my Xiom vega pro blade with which I had a good feeling when warming up.
I could rly feel the difference in dwell time, the drills we played went very well. But its always easy to get fooled by new EQ, so we played a match and I lost the first in three straight games. All my balls were too long and the contact was a bit off.
I managed to adjust in the next two and won those. Now I want to play around with it some more... but I think I will end up playing a softer and cheaper rubber for the next season :D
 
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Yes I had primorac carbon and It was a good blade but my coach told me I can control the ball better with viscaria and in my first session with viscaria it seemed good in control and block for me and for a spinnier ball I had G1 on both sides with effective strokes but I should play more to tell you exactly what it feels . I just have played once with viscaria

Yeah I tried a Primorac Carbon from a friend and I liked the feel a lot, but to me it was way too fast and not enough flex for me. Good TT and hope you adapt well to Viscaria!
 

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Softer rubbers? Just been trying Hexer Grip, feels softer than 45degree. I am blocking topspin better, can serve tighter, touch is better, easier to flat hit junk. However compared to Ten 05fx less arc, feels harder to power loop, flight flattens out. My training partner says it is spinny but the arc is lower unless i do a slow spinny loop. It seems harder to play a good winner but I seem to get more balls on and placement seems stronger and i don't think it reacts as much to spinny serves. So maybe I need to persist with it and be prepared to stay in the rally and get placement. Everyone says you can hit the ball hard with slow rubbers after adjustment we will see.
 
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MOG... your description of being able to hit hard or spinny with somewhat slower control oriented softer moder rubbers is me to a t, especially on bh wing.

Somehow, I just stay in more rallies with that stuff and still have a good top end.

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Yes I think I am losing something top end. But I am going to be brave and play a weekend tournament with it on the weekend and the venue is fairly slow, so we will see. But getting more balls on the table must be a plus in some ways. And losing that tenergy 05fx overreaction to spin on serves might be very useful for me. And it might save me £20 a sheet every few months too.
The difficult part will be persisting with it for a month or two if i get a bad day somewhere.
It does seem nice on the OSP though and I really should try and use that OSP.
 
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I am very aware of Carl and others view on the thin vs thick rubber argument, there are many posts about this on many threads lol. What he says is right if you practice right and get coaching etc i.e. the thicker sponge can actually increase control due to the better dwell and control of the spin on the ball. However, I don't have access to coaching, never have and never will, and I am happy to top out at a high amateur level of play. In Germany, where they arguably have the highest standard amateur leagues in outside of Asia, the majority of higher level players play with 1.8mm and 2.0mm sponges to gain control and blade feel. Furthermore, the two best players in or top division both play with thinner rubbers so they can control placement better, one with MX-S in 1.9mm and one with Sriver EL in 1.9mm (I know - he is a ridiculously talented blocker with a crazy spinny brush loop) so I think there are certainly two sides to the argument. In any case I am just looking for real world experience of soft and thick vs hard and thin to gain control of the ball with potentially permanently flawed technique.

Context is everything.

If a player who has tried enough equipment for himself and already knows how to spin well enough, is choosing for himself thinner sponge and has a reason, that is totally different than a player recommending thinner sponge to a player he has never seen. Especially if the suggestion of thinner as a recommendation to another player is just standard and given over and over.

And especially if the player doesn't really know how to spin well and is trying to improve his TT skills. Thinner sponge makes it harder to learn to spin. Someone who already knows how to spin can spin with whatever thickness he/she wants. They are totally different circumstances. I have never told NextLevel not to use thinner sponge. I know he can still spin the hell out of the ball with what ever thickness he chooses. :)

If a beginner is at a level where they are starting to learn to spin and trying to learn to spin but has the habit of making contact that is a little too direct, the thinner sponge will encourage more direct contact. If you already have good control over the depth of your contact, you can choose whatever you like. If you know enough about equipment and are not asking what to use, then you should also be able to choose whatever you like.

But some people, regardless of who is asking for equipment advice, over and over make the same suggestions without considering what the person asking for advice may need, even when the person asking for advice gives pretty good information to explain what is going on with their needs.

Telling someone who really will be fine with a Viscaria that he really should use a Primorac Off- makes as little sense as telling someone who really needs something in the class of a Primorac that he should get a ZJK SZLC. But that happens all the time.

And some of the people who do that also respond to threads that were resurrected from 5 years ago--by some bot selling college essays--and try to give the OP advice without looking at the date of the original posts.

Again, context is important. I am sure Mydas can make choices for himself. And I am also confident Mydas can refine his choices when he finds he wants to tweak them.

I hope that makes sense.
 
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Context is everything.

If a player who has tried enough equipment for himself and already knows how to spin well enough, is choosing for himself thinner sponge and has a reason, that is totally different than a player recommending thinner sponge to a player he has never seen. Especially if the suggestion of thinner as a recommendation to another player is just standard and given over and over.

And especially if the player doesn't really know how to spin well and is trying to improve his TT skills. Thinner sponge makes it harder to learn to spin. Someone who already knows how to spin can spin with whatever thickness he/she wants. They are totally different circumstances. I have never told NextLevel not to use thinner sponge. I know he can still spin the hell out of the ball with what ever thickness he chooses. :)

If a beginner is at a level where they are starting to learn to spin and trying to learn to spin but has the habit of making contact that is a little too direct, the thinner sponge will encourage more direct contact. If you already have good control over the depth of your contact, you can choose whatever you like. If you know enough about equipment and are not asking what to use, then you should also be able to choose whatever you like.

But some people, regardless of who is asking for equipment advice, over and over make the same suggestions without considering what the person asking for advice may need, even when the person asking for advice gives pretty good information to explain what is going on with their needs.

Telling someone who really will be fine with a Viscaria that he really should use a Primorac Off- makes as little sense as telling someone who really needs something in the class of a Primorac that he should get a ZJK SZLC. But that happens all the time.

And some of the people who do that also respond to threads that were resurrected from 5 years ago--by some bot selling college essays--and try to give the OP advice without looking at the date of the original posts.

Again, context is important. I am sure Mydas can make choices for himself. And I am also confident Mydas can refine his choices when he finds he wants to tweak them.

I hope that makes sense.

To be fair, what you have said is really very helpful as that context was missing for me when I had read through the various threads spanning many years. Thank you for taking the time to respond so thoughtfully and with such purpose, much appreciated.

What's really interesting about this is that counterintuitively a player with a higher skill level is more capable of benefiting from a rubber with a thinner sponge. As you say, this goes against much of the advice given to beginners. The juniors in our leagues all get put on Primoracs with 2mm super soft sponges, then progressively to harder sponges as they develop, then max, then carbon blades only if they are one of the top players.

I am gonna give T64 in 1.7mm a bash on my NSO and see what happens. All the best players in our top division just seem to keep the ball on the table longer than everyone else, hardly any of them use crazy fast or spinny equipment, they rely on solid consistent technique, which I can't seem to develop using thick rubbers soft or hard. Their serves are tight, they don't miss serve receives, they move you around the table seemingly at will, they play to your crossover or target your weaker side, so many tactics are possible when there is less of your energy going into whether you can simply get the ball over the net and onto the table, or more likely trying to hit shots for the camera.
 
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To be fair, what you have said is really very helpful as that context was missing for me when I had read through the various threads spanning many years. Thank you for taking the time to respond so thoughtfully and with such purpose, much appreciated

Yep. I actually know quite a few decently high level players who use thinner sponge. That is totally fine.

There are times when thinner sponge is the right choice for lower level players too. It is just so often that people make those equipment suggestions without consideration of what the person may actually need. And in an online format, you do really have to pull out some of those hidden details and try to figure things out.

Good luck.
 
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MOG in Slow Motion said:
Yes I think I am losing something top end... But getting more balls on the table must be a plus in some ways.

DISAGREE.

I think there are a LOT of plus stuff there... and playing that way a few months will help grow parts of your game that were not growing... like the middle shots too, but you also stay in it under pressure. That can count for a lot.

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As you get used to it, more control means you can apply power with more confidence and not think power means just a big swing. Der can make a very powerful, very fast BH stroke that is a very small stroke. That is also what so many of the top pros do when the do over the table loops small stroke with speed and power. Control is where that starts.
 
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Take my limiter limited opinion for what it is worth. The biggest benefit of softer sponge for me is the weight savings. For a head heavy blade like Korbel.and since I can use my body consistently, I would be forced to go slower if I didn't have a rubber like C-1.

I also think thickness and sponge hardness goes back to how hard you hit the ball and at what playing distance. If you step back to 2 meters and start trying to play hard shots with thinner sponge and/or softer, you will face limitations faster.

Finally, flexy and softer blade (usually slower) makes it easier to use thinner sponge as some of the spin comes from the blade as well as you feel the holding effect better. When you use harder blade you need something thicker a the ball will be harder to hold on softer shots and will not feel linear on harder shots.

Linearity for how you think about your blade performance is important. If the blade is doing what you train it to do within the right range, that is the most important.
 
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Der Echte I hope you are right and I am wrong and I just adjust my shots a little and find those top ends. I will say my placement has improved.
I was in humor mode... supporting and reinforcing your view of what good a softer rubber could do for our games where we do not have bang impact.

I am not worried about your top end or mine... where we are in better position and land more shots easier, the game performance almost takes care of itself.

Maybe at a later point when I am more consistent I can get more benefit from harder sponged modern rubbers.

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As you get used to it, more control means you can apply power with more confidence and not think power means just a big swing. Der can make a very powerful, very fast BH stroke that is a very small stroke. That is also what so many of the top pros do when the do over the table loops small stroke with speed and power. Control is where that starts.
Sure, my bh power shot when I want to do it power packed... hard or soft sponge... dont care... and those shots land when I am good position crouched... yet somehow, my ARC is better with a softer sponged version of the same rubber... I have higher landing percentage and I can always bang it harder if I need more power.

FH wing is where I am more sensitive to this.

One day I will get good enough at the fundamentals and impact consistency to benefit from harder sponge.

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I think it is easier to play with softer sponge since you get more help from the sponge and it is more forgiving. You also get more spin and power for free when you are not so active, but i think that when you want to play hard nothing happens. With harder rubbers i feel that you get more punished if you do the wrong stroke because the sponge do not help you as much, and not so much happens if you do not go for the shots, but when you are active and do the correct stroke to get spin or power i think you get more out of a harder rubber.

So i think if you have somewhat good techniue and train regurlarly i think harder sponge is proably better.

But proably bad to go to much either way. And like some above said it also have to work well with the blade.
 
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Finally tried my first coach session after 3 years.
We worked mainly on the forehand, trying to shorten my stroke, a bit on footwork to increase the power.
Then some practice trying to go down the line.
Then finish with some serve practice, going for the corners, and the importance of having a strong 3rd ball.

Here's a little clip.

Si-hing,

You are a way better looper than I am!!
Thank you for sharing!
~osph

P.s. wanted to see your FH lol
 
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Si-hing,

You are a way better looper than I am!!
Thank you for sharing!
~osph

P.s. wanted to see your FH lol

Thank you Si Hing!
You are a way better hitter than I am!!
Did you mean you want to see my BH?
I am having another coaching session this Friday if I can manage it, after the first session, my shoulder and posterior section of my upper forearm was very sore because I kept it very stiff to minimize the arm movement. It is getting better now so hopefully i can make it for Friday!
Note to self, need to figure out a way to stay relax yet have a short stroke.
 
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