Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

Played last night with the UAkron club and, as always, had a blast. The guy that founded the club in 2003 made a special appearance and was a hell of a challenge for just about everyone. Lefty with a wicked sidespin loop. I wasn't playing particularly well and lost 3-0 but all games went to at least 9. If he was in playing shape and I played my game I think it would go to 5 but he would still win.

He and I teamed up to play doubles against the team's 1 and 2 and lost the match 3-0 but kept it close. After the first match we played 2 more games with us taking the first and them taking the second.

Did some soul searching after doubles and thought about why I was playing so badly. Came to find out I was completely trying to predict the ball that's coming and committing to a shot/wing before I even know what my opponent would do. Told myself to slow down and read the ball and that would be my only priority for the rest of the night.

Lo and behold, I go on to play the team's number 1/2 depending on the day, and lost 3-1 (11-9, 11-9, 13-15, 12-10). Night and day difference in the way I played. Still gave some stupid pop ups when I pushed a ball I should have attacked and gave up initiative thanks to poor footwork after my opening attack. But I read the ball well and was generally happy with my consistency and power.

Final match was with the team #5. When I started in November he wouldn't get beyond 5 points in a game, but two weeks ago he beat me 3-2. So big improvement on his part, and his next level jump will probably come from just playing a tournament or two. But I played very well against him and won 3-1 in close games. Attacked where I should have and forced my game on him. Even got an accidental around the net off of his pendulum serve to my wide forehand.

I still have a long way to go but feel like I was actually playing table tennis this time. Hoping to keep momentum going tomorrow for their final practice before regionals on Saturday. I think they'll surprise some people and do pretty well if they stay loose and have fun (which is what I'm there for).

@suds79 .. IMO it depends on what you are trying to do really ... I for one is the first to acknowledge that I have very limited experience in EJ ing but when I did , I did for the fun of it and went to extremes like switching from T05 to MX-P to Hurricane 8 to Hurricane 3 ( Provicial ) .. back to T05 and now to T05 Hard.

My experience is depending on the nature of the rubber it takes time for your form and timing to adapt .. especially if you are going from one extreme to the other .. and while you go through the process the form itself becomes more flexible , as in the hand eye co-ordination can start switching faster ...

to give an example .. when I went from T05 to MX - P , it took me literally no time , but to H8 it took longer , like 2-3 weeks , a little less again when I switched to H3 boosted .. but when I started going back to european rubber the adaption was happenning faster like in 2-3 days ... and now I can literally switch to any rubber ( not to long pips mind you ) ... if I get like half an hour to train with it .... that is most of my skils translate quickly within reason .. but as NL was saying some things will change .. most noticably difficult strokes like flip , short push takes time to adjust but you can always get around those and not let it affect you much ...

so my conclusion , unless you are looking for a rubber that is going to accentuate your strengths and/or hide a particular weakness ... be patient .. and give it some time ... and after you have adapted look at the results realistically ... compare how you are doing against same players and how it affects your strengths and weakness ....

I had a friend who would jump at joy at everything new ( rubber and blade included ) provided it gave him a different feeling and then throw it away after a few days to go back to what he was using .. it was hilarious ... so too each his own ...

but one definite thing I have felt is that if you stick to different rubbers for longer , in some way or the other your stroke becomes well rounded over time and has more safety so that it can adjust to different rubbers quickly ... or rather you teach yourself to adapt fast ... and thats a very important skill to have anyways in game play ... because the faster you can adapt to changes by changing your grip pressure , swing size and plane and contact points ... the better player you become ..

so its all good in then end ... to some extent this philosophy even stretches to short pips and long pips ( ask Der_echte )

NextLevel said:

Break in? I just loop with it and see what it does. If the loop is promising then I run through some strokes, mostly short game stuff like pushing and flicking and serving. If it looks reasonable, then I play with it for a month. If it fails an area, it must have done so well in another area for me to go forward.

But at this point all tests lead to G1, as performed and longevity for cost is not outdone by anyone else.

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suds79 said:

Got a question for you guys.

How long do you give a rubber before you decide if it's not for you or if you simply need time to adapt to it.

I have been playing H3 Neo commercial on my FH for probably close to a year. Around the holidays, family members gifted to me a sheet of Gambler Burst Thor's hammer sponge.

Theoretically it should play pretty similar. Both are Chinese tacky. Both are firm sponges. I suppose H3 Neo has a light tuning but I'm sure that wore off a long time ago for me.

Anyways, I have about 6 hours on this new rubber and I am simply hitting the ball long a lot. I'm almost positive it's the firmer sponge as I'm probably not getting the feel or spin I'm use to not engaging the sponge. It's the year old broken in sponge vs a brand new one.

Playing devil's advocate, It's not like I'm exactly going to the exact same rubber just a newer version. It is technically different.

So like I posed earlier. How long do you give a rubber to break in before you cast judgement?

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Could be your sponge, yes, it is important to get the softness firmness right for what you do well. Might also be a different pip structure, or less supple topsheet. Might be how you glued the rubber. Could be several things.

Glad you mentioned "Breaking In" the rubber. In older days, many felt they needed to "prime" their rubbers before they got playable.

When you have used enough equipment, and get enough experience, you will know right away when you feel it.

I do not have the resources right now to measure my mass of the front/back of my hitting shoulder, compared to my non-hitting shoulder, but there is much more mass there... much more difficult to move that arm behind my back... too much stuff in the way there after 10 yrs+ of hitting.

Same here william ... the range of movement is not actually gone but I have to push/pull it with the other arm to reach the same spot ...

Der_Echte said:

I do not have the resources right now to measure my mass of the front/back of my hitting shoulder, compared to my non-hitting shoulder, but there is much more mass there... much more difficult to move that arm behind my back... too much stuff in the way there after 10 yrs+ of hitting.

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registered for the Veteran WTTC 2020 in Bordeaux (France). See you there !

http://www.wvc2020.com/?lang=en

What age group are you in?

Takkyu_wa_inochi said:

registered for the Veteran WTTC 2020 in Bordeaux (France). See you there !

http://www.wvc2020.com/?lang=en

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45-49

Same here

Takkyu_wa_inochi said:

45-49

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Takkyu_wa_inochi said:

registered for the Veteran WTTC 2020 in Bordeaux (France). See you there !

http://www.wvc2020.com/?lang=en

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Written it in my agenda. 2020 is still a way away, always the question how much playing time there's left with injuries and all that.

Still, I'll be participating in the Dutch Veteran national championships, which will be held in a month or so.

A pathetic old git I might be, but in doubles I'll be teaming up with a somewhat younger player, which means that we'll be playing "A1", the second highest level (one level below the former national and international players) in the lowest age category. Practicing wipeout FHs and BH rips and chopblocks, but still expecting to get utterly thrashed. Looking forward to it.

Der_Echte said:

I do not have the resources right now to measure my mass of the front/back of my hitting shoulder, compared to my non-hitting shoulder, but there is much more mass there... much more difficult to move that arm behind my back... too much stuff in the way there after 10 yrs+ of hitting.

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Most people playing right probably use that arm more for other things too. As a kid I inclined towards lefthandeness, but that got "corrected" in my early school days, and when I picked up the blade first I was taught to play righthanded as well (and my right wrist is slightly thicker).

Anyway, maybe as a result of that I'm sort of ambidextrous and for most things will quite easily take whatever hand (or foot) is readily available. Looking at the muscular build of my fellow players, most righties are somewhat more muscle-toned on the right arm and right side of the torso. But not all of them, and not me, even though my play has a substantial power FH component. My days of one-armed pushups are gone, but when I could still do that I could do so with both arms, regardless.

I don't think TT does that. When I hit with ultimate power it's not my arm muscles delivering the power. My legs and waist do most of the heavy work, and these tend to be rather balanced. Most explosiveness is in the left foot's front area, judging by the wear and tear in my footgear. Must be the "jump to position" after serving.

Der_Echte said:

I do not have the resources right now to measure my mass of the front/back of my hitting shoulder, compared to my non-hitting shoulder, but there is much more mass there... much more difficult to move that arm behind my back... too much stuff in the way there after 10 yrs+ of hitting.

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I have a DXA scan that shows the difference in muscle mass in my arms and legs. Not exact enough to show the difference in core musculature though. It's amazing how much a 1/4" aka 6mm leg length discrepancy can change muscle distribution as well.

yoass said:

Most explosiveness is in the left foot's front area, judging by the wear and tear in my footgear. Must be the "jump to position" after serving.

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I second this. The innersoles of my left TT shoes always get worn down way earlier than the right. The overall difference of the two is quite striking.

NextLevel said:

Fruitloop,

On this thread, I have seen just about every regular poster hit the ball at one time or another with a few exceptions. Lula the most recent, but Boogar, Takkyu, myself, ttmonster, DerEchte, Richie, Carl when he used to post, thekleifheit13, JeffM, sud79, OldschoolPenholder, NDH etc. have all posted video of their play. It has helped me understand and fraternize with them. I consider them family in one way or another.

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1 million percent this........

There needs to be some kind of gauge of what level you are at.

Personally, I think it should be mandatory if you want to comment on technicals aspects of the game (rather than things like pro players etc).

Even "equipment talk" needs to be benchmarked - Someone who is a very low level saying MX-P is too quick is irrelevant, as MX-P isn't designed for a lower level player.

It's really not hard to get a video of yourself - All it needs is 20/30 seconds of basic forehand to forehand and backhand to backhand just to get an idea of people's level.

It's easy to look good in a fh to fh rally, so the more footage you get the better (it's not a competition for who is the best - We are all trying to improve).

Obviously match play with serve/return/tactics is always far better to gauge ability - But I appreciate that's harder to get for some people.

If someone didn't want to submit a video publicly - Perhaps they could send it privately to a long standing member with an ability to judge the standard (or at least vouch for that person).

I'd be happy to pass judgement, as I'm sure NL, Der, Carl etc would also be happy.

NDH said:

1 million percent this........

There needs to be some kind of gauge of what level you are at.

Personally, I think it should be mandatory if you want to comment on technicals aspects of the game (rather than things like pro players etc).

Even "equipment talk" needs to be benchmarked - Someone who is a very low level saying MX-P is too quick is irrelevant, as MX-P isn't designed for a lower level player.

It's really not hard to get a video of yourself - All it needs is 20/30 seconds of basic forehand to forehand and backhand to backhand just to get an idea of people's level.

It's easy to look good in a fh to fh rally, so the more footage you get the better (it's not a competition for who is the best - We are all trying to improve).

Obviously match play with serve/return/tactics is always far better to gauge ability - But I appreciate that's harder to get for some people.

If someone didn't want to submit a video publicly - Perhaps they could send it privately to a long standing member with an ability to judge the standard (or at least vouch for that person).

I'd be happy to pass judgement, as I'm sure NL, Der, Carl etc would also be happy.

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I kinda agree with this. It is more likely that a somewhat good player knows alot more about tabletennis and how to play compared to a not so good player. But being a good player and a good coach, or being a person that knows much about technique and tabletennis is not the same thing. I can be, but not always. Know good players that do not seem to know much about technique at all. Also know good coaches that are not so good at playing themselfes. I do not feel that we should judge anyones knowledge about tabletennis to much from their level of play. I think i am pretty okay compared to alot of players here, i also know some players that are much better than me so they are proably much better than alot of players. So alot of my friends would not think this is forum is a place to be to learn and take advice because they are better than alot of players here. But you guys obviously know alot of stuff, so we can not think to much about the level. there is also alot of americans here, and in sweden and proably some other places where there are an old tabletennis culture people think that americans is very bad at tabletennis and do not know anything at all. But again, people here have proven that they know stuff.

So i think it is very hard to generalize and just think about the level of play. But of course the level of play can give an idea about how much you know, but it might not give the whole picture. I think that it is proably better that every individual here try to sift(sålla swedish translation) and try to make up their mind what they think about the advice they are given. Not good just to believe everyone.

I absolutely agree that good players don't always make good coaches, and good coaches might be poor players.

However...... We don't have many coaches on these forums - Those that are, are verified (Tony for example).

Which leaves the people who are happy to have video of their level online, and the people who are happy to talk a good game, without adding some context to their comments.

For reference, I don't think we should simply ignore anyone's opinion, and no one is going to turn around and say "I'm better than you, so my opinion is more important".

I'd like to think I'm a decent enough level, but there are folk here who have tried waaaaaaaay more rubbers and blades than I have.

So the video context is helpful when it comes to technical analysis of others, but also when it comes to discussing equipment.

Plus I think it makes people appreciate you a bit more, and like NL said, it makes you more integrated into the community.

Takkyu_wa_inochi said:

registered for the Veteran WTTC 2020 in Bordeaux (France). See you there !

http://www.wvc2020.com/?lang=en

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Thanks for posting, did not realize registration is up already. Off to register (50-55 group or whatever it is).

What do we mean with verified coach? if you have it as a fulltime job? Or that people know that you are a coach?

I think it can be some coaches here that have been coaching part time and been doing so for several years so they proably know somewhat much. Very difficult to get it as your fulltime gig. Also think that some people do not chose to have it as their fulltime job.

Erm, I think if you are going to post as a "coach", you'd need evidence to back that up.

I know a lot of "coaches" who are simply that by name - They have taken an official course, and earned the title of coach.

But they may be a very very low level coach, dealing with juniors - Perhaps they are good and can see the technical aspects of the game...... Perhaps they are bad, and can't.

The point I'm trying to make, is that you need to supply context to your comments - That can only come from video footage for others to see.

If I said that the VS Unlimited blade was too quick and you should use an all wood blade - What does that really mean without seeing me play?

Once you saw me, realised I'm bigger than the average table tennis player with decent power behind me, you'll see that my comment was specific to my game - It doesn't universally work for everyone.

I can generate as much power from an all wood blade that a lot of people would generate from a carbon blade - So I wouldn't give my advice to them based on my level, but on their level.

If that makes sense?

I don't think coach is a toggle. It's a scale. Me, I'm an amateur coach. I sometimes train a group of cadets/juniors, more often assist in doing so. I frequently devise training schemes for fellow adults and take them through it, usually one on one. I do this often whenever a player returns to the game and joins my club. It's deeply satisfying, entirely unpaid, and as far as my own training/certification as a coach goes, that's expired and probably outdated. I do read a lot, look around, and experiment. For the chiquita and strawberry flicks, well, they are there even if they weren't when I was trained. Not to mention the reverse pendulum serve.

A scale, with me an amateur. It's a scale that ranges from the likes of Stellan Bengtsson, Liu Guoliang, Jörg Roßkopf, Thieu van Vroenhoven (ahem, surprise!) up to, and probably even a bit past, me. Where on that scale a "verified coach" would sit I do not know.