Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,171
17,741
54,891
Read 11 reviews
LOL -- no, i've heard that for a long time, and don't recall who said it first, if anyone is on record for saying it. But the saying and concept has been known for a long time, just the person who said it first is unknown

So, you are saying you are Tyrion Lannister who likes to makes quotes that are by some supposed wise person. [emoji2]


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,171
17,741
54,891
Read 11 reviews
@ Archo,

I confess, I am glad I have not been on this thread for a long time.

Your FH opening looks pretty okay. You are arcing the ball onto the table.

I think you are still thinking of things in the wrong way. Or you are expressing them in the wrong way on the forum at least.

Forget about those moment by moment comparisons of you to a high level player. Focus on the quality of your shots.

A few positive things to start:

1) you took the footage from an angle that was decent for us to see what you were actually doing.

2) The 3rd ball attack looks decent.

What to work on:

1) your serves are too long for this drill and have too little spin. That is why your training partner keeps popping up the pushes. See if you can serve backspin and not so deep instead of serving long dead balls. It will make it so your training partner can give you pushes that are much lower and have backspin on them. Right now you are looping high dead balls.

2) Perhaps you taking those high dead balls as they have dropped considerably makes sense for you working on looping. But in a real game situation, attacking those from the top of the bounce and simply smacking them into oblivion would make sense on a lot of them. But then you wouldn’t be able to train loop with an arc.

So work on shorter serves with a decent amount of backspin. Your training partner will give you a better ball for working on looping if you can do that.

BTW: way back when I met him while I had that crazy eye injury, that is what Shuki did when he wanted me to push to him for him to attack. Which is why I told him I would never push those serves. [emoji2]


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
Last edited:
says what [IMG]
@UpSideDownCarl

Alright, I guess I should have served him backspin. I served him no-spin thinking he will have an easier time keeping it low, fast and deep: then complained that his returns are slow, high and not deep enough!

I didn't realize it in person, but goddamn those are some high balls. I shouldn't be trying to brush loop those kinds of balls in the first place. Next time I will up the quality on my serve.


I had a lot of problems if the ball is even slightly lower and farther away from me than I'm used to. What do you think I should do to remedy that?

You mentioned this months ago, but I don't *really* have a reset. Maybe that's part of the issue. I get caught far away and don't know how to move to the ball.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,171
17,741
54,891
Read 11 reviews
I had a lot of problems if the ball is even slightly lower and farther away from me than I'm used to. What do you think I should do to remedy that?

You mentioned this months ago, but I don't *really* have a reset. Maybe that's part of the issue. I get caught far away and don't know how to move to the ball.

I think OSPH gave you some good answers to your question.

Arch,

"Consistency not intensity."
~Unknown

"Progress not perfection."
~Denzel Washington as Robert McCall in The Equalizer (2014)

"The Way is in training."
~Miyamoto Musashi

Just keep at it when you can. Safe training and have Fun!

So, practice! [emoji2]

But a slightly more technical answer would be:

1) You are doing a set drill. You know the ball is coming to your FH. You are ready for the ball come where it is supposed to.
2) Your reset looks okay given what I said in #1. It might look different if the drill was random.
3) To work on being ready for the ball going anywhere, you have to practice the ball....yep, you guessed it....going anywhere.

So, this drill could make the FH loop consistent.

The random third ball placement would help you work on being ready for the ball going anywhere.

@ Boogar: shoot Shuki a PM. I have not seen him on the forum for a while.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,171
17,741
54,891
Read 11 reviews
@UpSideDownCarl

What do you suggest for a random drill? Start out with my partner pushing deep off my serve anywhere on the table, then random placement blocks along that wing?

1) You serve short, heavy backspin.
2) He pushes anywhere.
3) You open the attack.
4) Open play.

Now, you might limit the random to all long pushes. But at some point you need to switch that to make it really, random: long, short, left, right, middle, high angles.

You are limited by your serving and by your training partner’s skill pushing and making you work in the rallies.

You should spend a certain amount of time where you push the serve and you counter his loop too. That is important work also.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
says what [IMG]
1) You serve short, heavy backspin.
2) He pushes anywhere.
3) You open the attack.
4) Open play.

Now, you might limit the random to all long pushes. But at some point you need to switch that to make it really, random: long, short, left, right, middle, high angles.

You are limited by your serving and by your training partner’s skill pushing and making you work in the rallies.

You should spend a certain amount of time where you push the serve and you counter his loop too. That is important work also.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
Alright.

We've done some drills before where I push fast and deep, he loops and I counterloop close to table. It's hard to get spin on it and not just smack it. I'll work on that more next time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
May 2011
69
130
270
What I'm most concerned by is just how inconsistent my technique is. Some shots have one thing right, some have another, some don't have anything. When I can do 10 decent forehands in a row combining all the good points, I will feel I've got somewhere.

Hey Archo, for me at least, consistency happens when I start winning points (i.e. positive results).

When I learn a new technique, or correct an old bad habit, positive reinforcement is very effective. Once I try a new thing, and win points using that thing in games, my body naturally "absorbs" it, and it becomes "consistent" i.e. my body will do it again on it's own in the future (i.e. consistency)

Another way is, when you are in tight games e.g. in deuce, do you use the new technique? If so, that means you have confidence in the new technique. If not, the technique itself may not be good enough (i.e. you might want to try something else, because maybe your original idea may not be effective)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
May 2011
69
130
270
So, you are saying you are Tyrion Lannister who likes to makes quotes that are by some supposed wise person. [emoji2]

Lol Carl. Everyone likes Tyrion

It's been a while since we played in NYC robert chen's club! I am in california now!

here is a video of my game from yesterday (at the start you can see my face). The long pauses between games are from when we went to watch the live stream of Tao's game :)
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jan 2016
469
738
1,403
Just slightly related: I am learning japanese (as my major at the university), so after the next year I will start to translate japanese TT reviews and articles (now it's my first semester, so I am not yet at that level)

oh wow!

I took 4 years of Japanese in high school, and I took Japanese last semester in college. I'd be glad to help translate if there's a need.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Mar 2015
1,308
1,001
3,858
Read 3 reviews
Alright.

We've done some drills before where I push fast and deep, he loops and I counterloop close to table. It's hard to get spin on it and not just smack it. I'll work on that more next time.

If you want to learn how to put spin on close to table counterloops, loops with ease. Lose hands, short and SLOW swing, use the incoming power. You only want to brush the ball. After you can put spin on it you can start to use faster swing, stronger shots.
 
This user has no status.
Not sure, but you might have answered your own question: you are effectively saying that you *can* brush more. The fact that, as of now, doing so would hurt your consistency sounds like the good old long term development vs short term results problem. As people often point out, in TT just like in other pursuits, working on improving specific parts of one's technique can hurt one's results in the short term. If your main goal is to become a better player mid to long term, that's often a sacrifice worth making.

I don't know how you like to proceed when working on a specific shot, but for a lot of people, adjusting the speed/spin ratio is most easily done doing that one shot over and over again in drills.

Here is a more specific pointer that might (or might not) help: at least for me, looking for an answer to the question "what can I do to have better control over X" (say, X=amount of sidespin on my forehand loop) is rarely enough for me to actually achieve better control over X. While doing a shot over and over, there tends to be moments or phases when I notice an expansion in what I can consciously control to achieve that outcome more reliably. To stick with the amount of sidespin on my forehand loop: during drill, I started noticing how the angle of my wrist, together with the contact point relative to my body have a huge impact on the amount of sidespin I generate. Since I got there from the inside, during drills, I was very quickly able to adjust how I use these elements to control sidespin. However, if someone had just told me told me that wrist angle and contact point have a huge impact on sidespin on forehand loop, I wouldn't have known how to implement that lesson in play.

YMMV, but the best way to make the "I need to brush more" thought helpful in achieving a higher spin to speed ratio might just be to drill specific shots until you reach these moments of expansion in what you have conscious control over.

TLDR; here's a great example of how learning actually happens when working on technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22F2hRS2ZiA&index=12&t=155s&list=PLRXyDmJoz1MAjeKB9hpDj8N-ORcoQtD8L


You are absolutely right, it is just I suspect the amount of spin is good enough , it is only my slower setup that doesn't help me generate enough pace. but the issue is noted and put on the list.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
This user has no status.
Hey Musaab,

I'm not sure your experiment (of forcing yourself to generate more power with an all wood blade) is necessarily the best thing to do - If you get to a point where your shots are more powerful and produce more spin with that set up, you'll have to adjust the stroke all over again when you go back to the carbon set up.

I don't agree at all, see: with a fast setup you adjust to whatever seems to be working which is not necessarily the right gesture to do, you will start to develop awkward strokes, for the long term prospective it won't pay off. With a slower setup you have the chance to develop the right stroke and memeory-muscled it (if that even a word). this also applied to tacky forehand , to achieve my long term goals I don't want to have a foregiving rubber right noiw, I need to be puniched for every thing I do wrong. PingSkills recommended this approach to me and I think it is working fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
This user has no status.
@NL I use hurricane 8 on forehand and FX-P on my backhand on my faster setup. It is baffling me this equipments thing. I have a bad backhand and I know I need to train it. On both setups it is just not consistent at all and every stroke is just random. Yesterday just for fun I took my slower setup (after having played with the faster for couple a weeks) with ventus 1.8 on my backhand and I was able to topspin consistently for the first time in my life. Once I got the FX-P back I couldn't do it again :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
This user has no status.

NDH

says Spin to win!
I don't agree at all, see: with a fast setup you adjust to whatever seems to be working which is not necessarily the right gesture to do, you will start to develop awkward strokes, for the long term prospective it won't pay off. With a slower setup you have the chance to develop the right stroke and memeory-muscled it (if that even a word). this also applied to tacky forehand , to achieve my long term goals I don't want to have a foregiving rubber right noiw, I need to be puniched for every thing I do wrong. PingSkills recommended this approach to me and I think it is working fine.

I feel what I previously said has been misinterpreted.

Firstly - We are talking about relatively fine margins here - Anyone can play with wood/carbon, Chinese/Euro rubbers - Just because I play with a ZLC blade and Tenergy, doesn't mean I couldn't play with an all wood blade and H3 - Yes, I'd have to adapt my game a little - But I have 20 years of experience.... I'm sure I'd be fine.

However..... You have said you have 2 years(?) - I agree that having a slower set up initially is the way to go - An ALL+ or OFF blade paired with OFF rubbers would be my advice to anyone still learning the game in the first couple of years.

My previous point around the rubber set up was simple that...... You are not going to get the most out of the "tacky" rubbers, by playing the shots you play. Your style lends itself to playing with EUR/JAP rubbers - This isn't to say you won't have success with "Tacky" rubbers - Simply that the others would suit your game more.

I also understand your point about achieving your long term goals (and not having a "forgiving" rubber to hide the cracks) - But that's not what I meant.

Using a tensor rubber would not cover up any stroke inefficiencies - It simply suits your style better, and would lead to better results (IMO).

With all of this said..... If your long term goals must absolutely be to play with a Chinese Tacky rubber on your forehand, I would suggest trying to adapt your style of play to include much more of the body in your shots. Otherwise you'll simply be learning to play with a rubber, which doesn't suit your game.
 
Top