Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

UpSideDownCarl · Feb 20, 2020

Der_Echte said:
The combo we selected had 4 portions to comprise the combo, that is why the plate looked much bigger.

In Korea, generally, you buy a portion of meat. Often, 2 portions are enough for a grown man. I could eat comfortably in a Korean restaurant in Korea for under 20 usd even in Seoul.

In USA, everyone is crazy about all you eat unlimited, so many Korean restaurants do that... the ones that do not offer a "set" or combo deal... in the end, the restaurant gets more money that way.

There is nothing quite like Korean BBQ. Cooked on a grill right in front of you. With the Kimchi, lettuce and all the other stuff. Der, I can't believe we never went to eat at 32nd St in Manhattan. We do have to do that next time you are in NYC.

Der_Echte · Feb 20, 2020

NextLevel said:
I suspect that you are taking the backhand a bit too far in front of you though it might be the camera angle. Play around a bit with the swing trajectories especially the contact point on the ball and the finishing position. I suspect you can develop both a safer swing and a drive swing, now everything looks like drive and there isn't a lot of safety spin in the shot. But if you have some safety spin, you will use the shot much more in matches. Try swinging to contact both the right side, the back side and the left side of the ball, people usually develop a preference after seeing which one gives them more quality and safetly.

My first words would also be contact too far in front... however, one can extend strike zone forward and use lower arm and still make a consistent effective shot... which he does... so it isn't a national crime.

Still, I am with NL in that the baseline strike point should be less far in front as shown in the vid.

ajtatosmano2 · Feb 20, 2020

Weekly report: last week we lost our "revenge match". One of us injured his shoulder in the first singles match and our strongest player was sick and played with fever. We put up a good fight in the beginning, but after we lost in just the second singles round, the motivation was gone. I am not satiesfied with my performance as usual, but I am proud of my first singles match. I played a chopper and after losing quite badly the first two set I stood up and won in the end. The last three set all went over 10 points. I changed my strategy as neither trying to play safely and trying to end the point as quickly as possible didn't work out. So I decided to only loop with 70% strenght and try to loop everything that's reasonable (one/two loop, one push strategy failed). This way our match lasted an hour, multiple times with 15-20 consecutive loops and the majority of the points over 5 loops. The chopper was extremely safe, but couldn't chop with strong backspin. Who have seen my recent video can figure that 70% power is still decent, so I am happy about the consistency and the fact that I was able to restrain myself and not go RSM style.
I couldn't practice the week at the club, but continued the shadow practice. My form is getting better but probably it's won't make a difference during matchplay. Yet

Der_Echte · Feb 20, 2020

ajtatosmano2 said:
Weekly report: last week we lost our "revenge match".

RACHESPIEL !!! Epic stuff.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Der_Echte · Feb 20, 2020

UpSideDownCarl said:
There is nothing quite like Korean BBQ. Cooked on a grill right in front of you. With the Kimchi, lettuce and all the other stuff. Der, I can't believe we never went to eat at 32nd St in Manhattan. We do have to do that next time you are in NYC.

Carl, we always ended up at a nearby Chinese place... the one time all of us agreed to eat Korean, it was too late - closing time.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

UpSideDownCarl · Feb 21, 2020

Der_Echte said:
Carl, we always ended up at a nearby Chinese place... the one time all of us agreed to eat Korean, it was too late - closing time.

A few of the places on 32nd St close at 5am. But I remember one time it being later than anyone was willing to go except for you and me. [emoji2]

We will have to make it happen next time. Korean BBQ is better than anything.

Takkyu_wa_inochi · Feb 21, 2020

here is one rather high scale Korean restaurant in Tokyo
https://www.jojoen.co.jp/en/#menu

in a regular one, on average prices may be 20% lower.

If you go outside Tokyo, or far its center prices will be even lower.

Matt Hetherington · Feb 23, 2020

Why hello there folks. I'm back

Der_Echte · Feb 23, 2020

Matt just got done completing a challenge jump off the Brooklyn Bridge with Carl. Welkom bak.

BryanY · Feb 24, 2020

Matt Hetherington said:
Why hello there folks. I'm back

Welcome!

Richie · Feb 25, 2020

Lula said:
Richie! I think it looks good! I think you could try to have the racket a bit higher so you can brush more forward. Now sometimes you start a bit under so even If you brush more you still will only get more arc and not more power. Buy you are so little under the ball so Maybe it Do not matter. If you look at our fellow swede Kristian Karlsson, he really brush down when playing hard with the baxkhand.

I also think you look a bit tense. Hard to move the arm fast then. Try to be relaxed Then accelerate and tense when you hit the ball, moment of impact. Now i feel you Do not get as much acceleration with arm as possible due to seemingly tense muscles.

Edit: Maybe nextlevel is correct regarding the spin. Try closing the angle of the racket more But this comes natural If you start a little higher and brush more forward. But Do not really need more spin If the opponent does spin and you take it at the highest point. But agree with a thinner contact you Will get proably feel that the stroke is safer due to the arc.

NextLevel said:
Yeah, I don't think he needs thinner contact per se but something more like what you said. But I think he should experiment that is why I didn't give specific instruction. You gave the specific instruction I could have given but I also learned somethings just by playing around with my stroke and trying to get more safety and less safety without anyone telling me exactly what to do. I am hoping he will have similar experiences.

I don't like to drop my racket down on my backhand loop but everyone does it differently. I prefer to take it backwards like Kreanga. I play around with thinker and more circular swings.

I've been having these comments at the back of my mind while practicing backhand lately. Taking the ball slightly too far in front I can see and trying to work on. I'm thinking a reason for this could be that the whole swing is started slightly further in front of me than it could be. I will try to start it closer to my body. Though I don't quite understand the dropping of the racket. I feel like it's nearly impossible to keep it high when a bit further from the table.

Look at ML hitting backhands here: https://youtu.be/85NYudzlIg0?t=114
To me his racket is going slightly below the table on the backswing. So is it on the forward swing that it is too low for my BH's? And I should try to close the racket more on the forward swing, but if I do that I feel like I would get less spin. I will have to record again and try to go for "safer" BH's and see what it's like.

Thanks guys

NextLevel · Feb 26, 2020

Richie said:
I've been having these comments at the back of my mind while practicing backhand lately. Taking the ball slightly too far in front I can see and trying to work on. I'm thinking a reason for this could be that the whole swing is started slightly further in front of me than it could be. I will try to start it closer to my body. Though I don't quite understand the dropping of the racket. I feel like it's nearly impossible to keep it high when a bit further from the table.

Look at ML hitting backhands here: https://youtu.be/85NYudzlIg0?t=114
To me his racket is going slightly below the table on the backswing. So is it on the forward swing that it is too low for my BH's? And I should try to close the racket more on the forward swing, but if I do that I feel like I would get less spin. I will have to record again and try to go for "safer" BH's and see what it's like.

Thanks guys

Paul Drinkhall reviewed Evolution MX-S and said something that I sometimes like to point to when people show me this or that backhand when I am recommending that they adjust the way they hit the ball and see what happens:

"Remember, when it comes to the technique and contact point we all do this a little differently to each other!"

My point is that if your ball is coming out a certain way, the question is what you can do to change that or bring more flexibility to your technique. It's part of the reason why I don't like giving specific advice.

Let's look at Kreanga who I originally mentioned. Maybe he dropped his racket, that is not the impression I got looking at the video or his technique in most of the years I watched him:

https://youtu.be/AI1CXa8BQc8?t=130

He gets lift by turning his racket over the ball and hardly drops it. He rips around the side of the ball and comes over. Dan in the video does it a little differently. The only thing I would say about all their swings is that there is some circularity (curvilinearity???) to create arc. I am just asking you to experiment with it and see the effect on ball quality. Giving you an answer with respect to your swing is what I cannot do because it is hard to get someone to hit the ball differently and even when they do, how they think of it may be completely alien to how I think of it.

So maybe I drop my racket - I don't think I do but it is quite possible I do. Some people say top of the bounce when it clearly looks to be that the ball is after the top of the bounce. I Think I hit the left side, someone might say I hit the back, but my mental concept is what I think I do. In the end, just experiment and see what is possible. The biggest mistake in table tennis practice is to continue to think that there is something wrong with hitting the ball off the end of the table or putting the ball into the net. All are just examples of seeing what happens to the ball when you swing a specific way. To think that you always know what will happen when you swing a specific way is to claim a perfect understanding of table tennis physics, and you only get closer to that if you have done the experiments.

Richie · Feb 26, 2020

NextLevel said:
Paul Drinkhall reviewed Evolution MX-S and said something that I sometimes like to point to when people show me this or that backhand when I am recommending that they adjust the way they hit the ball and see what happens:

"Remember, when it comes to the technique and contact point we all do this a little differently to each other!"

My point is that if your ball is coming out a certain way, the question is what you can do to change that or bring more flexibility to your technique. It's part of the reason why I don't like giving specific advice.

Let's look at Kreanga who I originally mentioned. Maybe he dropped his racket, that is not the impression I got looking at the video or his technique in most of the years I watched him:

https://youtu.be/AI1CXa8BQc8?t=130

He gets lift by turning his racket over the ball and hardly drops it. He rips around the side of the ball and comes over. Dan in the video does it a little differently. The only thing I would say about all their swings is that there is some circularity (curvilinearity???) to create arc. I am just asking you to experiment with it and see the effect on ball quality. Giving you an answer with respect to your swing is what I cannot do because it is hard to get someone to hit the ball differently and even when they do, how they think of it may be completely alien to how I think of it.

So maybe I drop my racket - I don't think I do but it is quite possible I do. Some people say top of the bounce when it clearly looks to be that the ball is after the top of the bounce. I Think I hit the left side, someone might say I hit the back, but my mental concept is what I think I do. In the end, just experiment and see what is possible. The biggest mistake in table tennis practice is to continue to think that there is something wrong with hitting the ball off the end of the table or putting the ball into the net. All are just examples of seeing what happens to the ball when you swing a specific way. To think that you always know what will happen when you swing a specific way is to claim a perfect understanding of table tennis physics, and you only get closer to that if you have done the experiments.

Thanks for this post NL. It looks to me like in the case of Kreanga's BH there's more twist and less bow, when there's more of a bowing motion the racket will be "dropped" more. I've seen Kreanga's type BH before, I guess these are more like individual preferences.

But I agree completely that I need to experiment more with the swing so I can find more of the "spin" feeling and to get more arc for safety.

I found an angle where I could compare mine to FZDs BH. To me we're dropping the racket about the same amount. His BH is 1000x smoother of course and I think he gets lower with his hips just before hitting the BH. Like he "sits" back more. Trying to incorporate more of this myself and practicing it a lot might make me look less tense. I also think that I perhaps mix a bit too much of twisting on some BH's and trying to bow too so my whole arm is more to the right plus the racket "drops" from trying to bow, FZD doesn't seem to do this at all. His arm structure doesn't change as much during the shot.

Maybe Lula was only referring to some BH's.. it just confuses me a bit as I don't know how high I should be raising the racket or what it really should look like. But you've given me some ideas.

Lula · Feb 26, 2020

Kreanga and Fan zhendong is two differents ways to play backhand. Hard to compare them.

I think, as long as you search in the ball it is fine. If you have the racket to much under the ball, the only way of hitting it is to hit upward, and there you lose alot of Power. Even if you accelerate and brush like crazy you still only get a higher arc. Do not really need so much arc if you play Close to the table against topspin.

So if you feel that you can do the stroke somewhat forward then i Think you are holding the racket in a okey position. But if you need to do the stroke to much upward then i Think you have not searched in the ball, and have the racket to low.

So need to move elbow and racket up and down depending on how high the ball is.

NextLevel · Feb 27, 2020

I think I figured out that for my understanding of backhand topspin, I cannot hit the ball from the back - the only way I can hit a powerful backhand is with some element of sidespin.

That said, I find it interesting what difference time can make to one's technique. Here is my technique from 2015 when I started trying to refine and improve my backhand. I am sure I Still hit backhand like that a lot during matches. But this was part 3 of 3 long videos where I play a lot with my tempo and arc to see what it means to be able to hit a backhand topspin in terms of contact and swing trajectory.

https://youtu.be/An5iXgG9ej0?t=240

Here is my technique from my training session yesterday night:

https://youtu.be/osq98IGWpIc?t=291

Just more stuff that reminds me how hard the road to TT improvement can be when you don't get to learn as a kid from a great coach from day 1....

Der_Echte · Feb 27, 2020

Next Level,

We gotta meetup next time I swing by east coast. May be likely this spring, if Carl doesn't trap me in his basement Septic Tank for LULZ.

There is a LOT that I can share with you in person. I have learned a lot about how to communicate biomechanics of impact dynamics, especially for the various bh shots since I have started to coach adults more.

I believe the issue with you hitting with power only when hooking is just getting the ball into your strike zone a little better and getting your hips better aligned to where you want to go with the ball.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Der_Echte · Feb 27, 2020

Having said that, a hookshook a little or a lot is still powerfull, easier to control the incoming ball... and if practiced enough, you adjust for placement.

None of that sounds terrible by any measure... but having a direct straight bh fast topspin at will is a very good tool to have.

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TTW · Feb 27, 2020

Anyone here has ever felt the feeling of being bored or giving away games with your opponents whom you play Table Tennis daily ?

NextLevel · Feb 27, 2020

TTW said:
Anyone here has ever felt the feeling of being bored or giving away games with your opponents whom you play Table Tennis daily ?

It is inevitable when you play people who you can always beat. But an aspect of it is now technically solid you are. If you are technically solid, then your level should come through even when you are bored. Sometimes too your opponents are playing well and you are not in the mood to try and give them credit.

And sometimes like yesterday, I wasn't warmed up yet and neither were they. But when I played 2 matches and they hadn't played any other than the first one they had played rope against me, it became abusive because my sharpness was there and theirs was not...

NextLevel · Feb 27, 2020

Der_Echte said:
Next Level,

We gotta meetup next time I swing by east coast. May be likely this spring, if Carl doesn't trap me in his basement Septic Tank for LULZ.

There is a LOT that I can share with you in person. I have learned a lot about how to communicate biomechanics of impact dynamics, especially for the various bh shots since I have started to coach adults more.

I believe the issue with you hitting with power only when hooking is just getting the ball into your strike zone a little better and getting your hips better aligned to where you want to go with the ball.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

I have never been happier with my technique than I am now. You can see what I call an element of sidespin in the video above and my sidespin is probably the least on any backhand in the club. The problem on both forehand and backhand is that hitting the ball really hard leads to my turning my body in a circle and losing timing. But my backhand definitely has less sidespin than my forehand and I think I am at a point where neither are really that bad. And if anyone thinks that sidespin is something a pro would not do on their basic loop, I have a Gionis video for you.

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