Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

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Are you able to sustain a wider stance? At a brief glance it looks like you are somewhat light on your feet when executing the stroke, and heavier on your feet during the transition/set-up phase, but I'm sure this could be the result of bad knees. I could be wrong too.

This could make it a little easier to engage your lower body...or not. Check out this video from Rade Markovic.


Whenever I try that, my knees remind me why I don't do it all the time after the session is over...
 
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Think it seems like he still get pretty good power. I think he could try to brush the ball more when he feels he do not stand correctly. I also think the purpose is to practice playing hard? For gameplay I think it would be good to practice to change the tempo.
 
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After a break of 6 months, we had a team competition here in Japan.
with this angle you can see my teammates and me competing at the same time.

Because of Covid, they split this event in 2 venues and at 2 separate dates. As a result, there is 3 to 4 times less people than usual, and there is a lot of space to play as you can see. Some people prefer to play with the mask on.

As special Covid rules, doubles were cancelled and replaced by singles, and there is no change of court at the end of each game.

I'm playing against a very young 70 years old man in this video.



We have another team competition scheduled next month, but I'm afraid it will be cancelled because Covid is like everywhere else gaining pace.
 
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I played a tournament in NJ yesterday, went 3-2 but couldn't beat any of the top 2 players in the group (both juniors) and thus was unable to advance. The kids these days are really scary. Lots of COVID19 management protocols. But it was fun to be able to help keep the sport going.
 
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After a break of 6 months, we had a team competition here in Japan.
with this angle you can see my teammates and me competing at the same time.

Because of Covid, they split this event in 2 venues and at 2 separate dates. As a result, there is 3 to 4 times less people than usual, and there is a lot of space to play as you can see. Some people prefer to play with the mask on.

As special Covid rules, doubles were cancelled and replaced by singles, and there is no change of court at the end of each game.

I'm playing against a very young 70 years old man in this video.



We have another team competition scheduled next month, but I'm afraid it will be cancelled because Covid is like everywhere else gaining pace.

In the warmups, it looks like your weight is coming off your right leg and transferring to nowhere, so it's wasted motion. Have you worked on this with your coach before?
 
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Hi Takku,

Glad to see you got some Takku action going on...

I will keep the responses to just TWO categories of comment - BASIC TACTICS and SERVES.

Base tactics vs this player...

...he never showed you he could open up vs heavy underspin... you never really attempted to do that... and it looks like you could benefit from learning the timing and touch needed to do that... I suspect this 70 yr old J-Pen dude would struggle to make heavy spin openeres... I suspect he flat-out cannot do it... so he goes for speed attack... which he has more comfort and experience... you gave him easy loose balls on your non-attacking shots and he pretty much could attack with high percentage strong.

... he showed you he can stop fast loops to both his BH and his FH with one-step footwork. He didn't show me he could block heavy spin slow ball very well... I saw him block those out mostly... I see you preferred to open with a fast speed drive... which he blocked nearly every time and you make a lot of mistakes on hte follow attack...

... so... it WAS'NT PAYING you ANYTHING to try to dominate him like that... he was ASKING for you to attack and he was dominating you in that fashion... so WHY ON GOD"S GREEN EARTH were you SO DEAD-SET on a fast loop every chance you got??? It got you nowhere... FAST. One set of tools you ALREADY have that would be good vs this player is to get your underspin ball, then open HEAVT SPIN slow... to his wide FH is angl is there... he would block most of those out... and the few he would land in... you now have a WIDE OPEN BH CORNER TARGET so OPEN to you.

... just some examples of how to figure out what will work and not vs such and such opponent.

SERVES !!! SERVES !!! SERVES !!!

CALL THE TTD GOON SQUAD !!!!

We gotta be fair with this one... we gave MOG some serious grief on his serves from hi slast set of vids... so we GOTTA give you the business on the serves as well, it is just being fair and consistent.

TAKE A LOOK at how you served, both FH and BH... VERY OFTEN, your FH serve... you would would transfer the ball to your left hand... and do this 20-30 CM UNDER THE TABLE TOP !!! You would not present the ball (meaning you are required to pause with the hand staionary and ball near center of hand AND do this at or ABOVE table surface and behind it)... and you failed to do this NUMEROUS TIMES.

On the BH SERVE... sometimes you would do the same thing... dip everything WAY below the table and NOT present the ball... then you would do a VERY SHORT TOSS that was MOPSTLY HORIZONTAL.

I get it, the other dude didn't care either and his serves were illegal too (mostly short toss backwards)... AND the umpire/scorekeeper didn't know/didn't see/didn't care... (and looked like he never called fault serves) but you gotta do better man. Once you realize you are doing this, it isn't too dificult to stop doing it. One way is to present ball with left elbow or outside of left wrist RESTING on the endline, while the ball is correctly presented... this will make it very difficult for you to dip the ball below the table. EDIT: I saw you do that at 9:08 of the vid. (legal service using elbow resting on endline)

Here is a snippet of one of the times you did this with the FH serve (it was a short toss tomahawk serve at 7:22)... and you were at the start of the serve 5-10 CM below the table already when you started your serve... then you added fuel to the Goon Squad Gotchya Fire by dipping hte arm and hand another 15+ cm... I COULD have EASILY made DOZENS of these snippets from your match vid... you literally served like this 80%+ of the time... but one of them is enough to show you what you are doing wrong. You can and should be able to fix this very easily. It is a matter of learning how to dip your waist WITHOUT locking the entire body and dipping the arm and hand along with it.

Your FH serve...
takkyu serve 1.jpg

...and your BH serve...
takkyu serve 2.jpg
 
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@Der Echte

thanks very much for the comment. Its very useful to get this criticism

i wasn't aware my serves were that illegal

But i am totally aware serve is by far my #1 weakness. And there is a reason for that. I played more than 30 years TT but the number of hours devoted to taking a box of balls and serving has been less than 1% of my time...and I'm paying it all the time in competition.

I don't have the touch and feeling, timing and whatever else is needed to make good serves. Or perhaps even I have it but I have not developed how to use those qualities for serving.

Only since I started back in June (post-Covid), I am taking a box of ball at every session and try to commit myself to do at least 2 boxes of serves. I can't stick to it all the time, but its slowly getting a habit. I can finally start to have new feelings and experiment new serves, and to remember everything about these serves.

I am forcing myself to use those serves in training matches, usually at the beginning or middle of set+ match. But i didn't have the confidence to use these serves yesterday.

----

And i think serves is the reason for many things next. Because i am serving badly, i have limited tactical choices, and i get not so easy to attack 3rd balls, which put me in difficulty next.

And the next thing is i'm a poor tactician as well.

I don't have any consistent long heavy underspin serve, except for a long BH serve straight to FH (i can't do it consistently to BH). I must admit i didn't try it yesterday even once and it was stupid not to do so, because when i do it confidently, i often earn cheap points against this kind of players

As for the slow spinny opening FH loop. Stupid as well. I can do that shot. Actually in practice training I try to do it as much as possible because i know my tendency not to do it in real match. And yesterday again i failed to use it even once.

Watching the video, the only "good" thing about my serves is that at least i managed to keep them lower than usual, (and thats perhaps thanks to training ?)

----

I'm not happy about my performance at all. Training so much and losing to a 70yo guy is not fun.
The only thing i am happy about is my mindset and not giving up, i was down 0 sets to 2, and fought back, saved matchpoint in the 5th and even earnt one that i wasted with a poor long serve which he attacked and i didn't block

it is the kind of opponent i feel i should win 3-0 if i change a bit my play like you suggest or even when playing my "flawed" way if i do things just a little better and get better prepared.

Yesterday was the first competition for a while, and we had 2 new players. So we were quite excited and talked a lot between games. Usually i always warm up, running a bit before the match, doing shadow play or i have a rope as well. I didn't do that this time, and I think it shows up a lot. I'm not playing well in the 1st game, I'm literally giving it away because I'm not ready physically and mentally.

Winning the 1st game whether you're the favourite to win or not changes a lot of things. It makes it easier to get into the flow or to instill doubt to the opponent and force him to take more risks and make more mistakes.

So i think i made it a handicap match, i lose a close 2nd game because of a few details, and then the pressure builds. I see my buddies losing on the other table so I take some courage from the 3rd set. In the 5th i get a good start 5-2 but he plays well 5-5, i take the lead another time 7-5 and its a bit downhill from there. I don't think I choked but i did make poor choices. not the good serves, not waiting for the good ball, waiting too much on easy balls, or taking too much risks on not so easy balls (like match point)

----

Hopefully i will learn from that defeat.. Never again, and i will continue this serve training every session , and maybe in 6-12 months time i'll be a completely different player because I can serve any spin any where , and follow up, it changes everything
 
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Hi Takku,

In MANY posts over the last few years, I have broken down several PROGRESSIVE ways for an adult to become a great server... one who can serve short whenever they want with heavy or light spin with same motion. I believe you could turn your current serving into a weapon that gives you a decisive offensive advantage in a rally... which is the purpose of a serve IMO.

Why? Because when I was 1400 USATT befroe I even had a lesson, I had ZERO short serves or ANY CLUE how to serve... Forum member BOGEYHUNTER was 1900 level in 2007 before I went to Iraq my last time, he spent 30 minutes with me explaining all the things needed to make a short, heavy underspin serve... then how to vary it.

Easy to hear the 30 minutes, but when I went to practice it... if you were within 15 meters of me and did NOT have heavy protective equipment... I may have knocked out your eye with the ball mis-hit it so often so hilarious I was.

I will find some of the posts where I explained it detail, so I do not re-invent the wheel for you... or I can make a thread... WHO wants to be a MILLIONAIRE (Server) ??? maybe there I could lay out one phase and another in a sequence of progression to get to the performance. Recently, MaTT did a lot, so has Brett Clarke in his vid... he likes the progressive approach. Too many try to do everything at once at the table and there are so many variables, that it just doesn't come together at the table any time soon.

Why would I be willing to spend all this time to work with you? Especially after I make note of your serves and such?

Well, I respect and work with those who want to work. You have shown by your last post that you want to work. You didn't make excuses or blame something/someone (like I would when I am pissed at the club)(Yep, the fan making noise is what messed my shot, not ME !!).

It is great that you have realized what your current serving is doing to hinder your game and performance.
 
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Takkyu... said:
...And i think serves is the reason for many things next. Because i am serving badly, i have limited tactical choices, and i get not so easy to attack 3rd balls, which put me in difficulty next.

And the next thing is i'm a poor tactician as well.

I don't have any consistent long heavy underspin serve...

Serving badly... limited tactical choices... do not get easy to attack balls...

- It starts with having a good smooth efficient serve motion... look at some of MaTT's serve vids from the start of Covid era... he showed in very minute detail where to strike the ball on FH pendulum... when you learn the bat angle at impact, HOW to consistently get that bat angle, HOW to stay loose, how to time impact... and later firm at impact some, and some other things down the road... then you will have a foundation to vary just about any factor you can think of.

- That will put you in a position to serve the serves you want that will give you a predictable return for you to go on offense in the way you choose ahead of time

Poor Tactitician... when you discover how to serve and the kind of options it gives and what advantages they are and how you can attack and learn what is easier and higher percentage effective for you... I think you will be surprised at how much easier tactics will come to you.

No Consistent long heavy underspin service... It is more impostant to learn all the basics of serve motion, how to generate spin, how to vary it, then learn the different impacts to give differnt legths and pace of the serve... by that time, you should be able to serve just about anything when you want how you want. maybe vs that oponent a fast deep underspin serve to the BH jamming him, or a short heavy underspin serve to his BH... those against that level of J-Pen player often result in a long underspin ball to your BH... and if you have a great BH loop... here is the time to shine... or it is the time to use that step-around FH coach has been working on you.

Dont practice with lots of boxes of balls for service... I can say this... UNTIL you learn how to serve and are on track with all the progression to get there... all you serve practice is doing is making your bad serves stay bad.

You learn touch on serve with bat angle control, accelleration mechanics, timing to impact, where on bat and ball to strike, and grip control... you get these down... you will set the stage for a lot of good touch for serve.
 
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Serving badly... limited tactical choices... do not get easy to attack balls...

- It starts with having a good smooth efficient serve motion... look at some of MaTT's serve vids from the start of Covid era... he showed in very minute detail where to strike the ball on FH pendulum... when you learn the bat angle at impact, HOW to consistently get that bat angle, HOW to stay loose, how to time impact... and later firm at impact some, and some other things down the road... then you will have a foundation to vary just about any factor you can think of.

- That will put you in a position to serve the serves you want that will give you a predictable return for you to go on offense in the way you choose ahead of time

Poor Tactitician... when you discover how to serve and the kind of options it gives and what advantages they are and how you can attack and learn what is easier and higher percentage effective for you... I think you will be surprised at how much easier tactics will come to you.

No Consistent long heavy underspin service... It is more impostant to learn all the basics of serve motion, how to generate spin, how to vary it, then learn the different impacts to give differnt legths and pace of the serve... by that time, you should be able to serve just about anything when you want how you want. maybe vs that oponent a fast deep underspin serve to the BH jamming him, or a short heavy underspin serve to his BH... those against that level of J-Pen player often result in a long underspin ball to your BH... and if you have a great BH loop... here is the time to shine... or it is the time to use that step-around FH coach has been working on you.

Dont practice with lots of boxes of balls for service... I can say this... UNTIL you learn how to serve and are on track with all the progression to get there... all you serve practice is doing is making your bad serves stay bad.

You learn touch on serve with bat angle control, accelleration mechanics, timing to impact, where on bat and ball to strike, and grip control... you get these down... you will set the stage for a lot of good touch for serve.

thanks for all your advice. Actually i've been watching many serve videos, not the ones you mentioned specifically, but plenty of others. I've even had a few 1:1 coaching sessions just for serve. I guess i'm not gifted. Videos and lessons + feedback by a good coach is very important but in the end, you can't avoid practising, and i think thats what I lack most.

But I am certainly not giving up, and hope to show something much better in a few months time. Its not gonna suddenly improve next week or next next week
 
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Takkyu, you move well!

I think that if you can become better with these two things you will really develop:

- Like someone above said: try using your body in the forehand stroke.
- Grip harder when you hit the ball doing your backhand stroke.

Feel like your fundementals and more importantly motivation and interest to be high, so in think you can become a lot better! I think that if you can work on those two things you will become better pretty fast if you get hang of it. If you still work with a coach maybe you can ask about it.

Good Luck!
 
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Takkyu... said:
I've even had a few 1:1 coaching sessions just for serve. I guess i'm not gifted.

I hear you, but I so disagree. I believe you can learn and perform even better than me.

Look dude, if you saw how UTTERLY TERRIBLE Der_Echte was the day I started to improve serves... you would have needed a trip to the hospital emergency room from damaged induced by laughing too hard.

I can say with confidence, that any TT player of any level looking at how clumbsy terrible no skill no timing no results strinkg the ball everywhere but where I needed to... that was Der_Echte the day I started... I can say every single one would agree I had about zero talent for serving. I mean zero. I would have gotten NEGATIVE POINTS if it was possible.

Yet now, I have serves that are as good or better than my level which is entering the top ten percent of players in my country. Not elite, not even good amateur level, but better than 90% of the field.

...and I started out with zero skill. I had a great explainer of concepts and execution... I had 1 year to practice 3-5 minutes daily... eventually I improved in progression to make use of practice at table... at 6 months I could serve short good spin 1/2 the time... by 9 months 90% plus... by end of one year, better quality and variety with same motion and decent biomechanics.

SO... I DO AGREE with your emphasis on practice, but it is going to take undertnding and progressive correction of what you do wrong for making serves short and making spin. Once you get these things and impact timing... then you can really benefit from at the table practice... and I agree that there is NO REPLACING THOSE HOURS... but I say those hours are totally wasted worthless if you keep practicing with the same fundamental mistakes in biomechanics, control of bat angle, and timing to impact.

It took me iterally a YEAR of this effort... if you learned well and did the right things to correct most of them off the table in a prgressive manner... then your at table practice would explode in progress and importance.
 
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