Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

Der_Echte · Apr 9, 2018

OSP made post number 8000 to this thread, sign him up for a contract.

suds79 · Apr 9, 2018

OSP,

Man that's some good content. How awesome. Thx for posting all that. Very cool to keep providing content and to be able to meet up with other forum members. Sounds like a good time. Where are you located BTW?

So after thinking about out in something you mentioned earlier, I think you're right. There's no way I can let one of my main TT idols slip by me by not seeing him in person when he's just a 3 hour drive away. I think I'm going to try out that USATT tournament Aug 3-5 in Iowa City Iowa. Anybody else here going to be there?

RPB talk:

I had a nice club session last night with RPB. Starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel of where I play my RPB more & more over TPB simply due to growing confidence. Also trying not to beat myself up if I mistakenly play a TPB instead of an RPB here & there. That type of negative talk doesn't help. Plus I actually think a TPB on the dredded crossover point is much easier than RPB anyways. So I don't mind it there.

But last night it was nice. Blocking felt good. My TPB is still more consistent but the RPB, as you might imagine, has a lot more pop and quality. Just have to get the consistency up.

Question about RPB setup:

For years you hear the ideal setup is hard (some people like tacky) FH for agressive play. Softer more euro like sponge on the BH for consistency. I wonder if that's more ideal for shakehanders?

Because if I soft play for touch play on the BH or chop, float, etc, (basically anything with a more open face) I'm doing it TPB. If I play a RPB on my BH, it's generally 1 of 3 things happening.
- RPB Blocking a topspin ball in a rally
- RPB looping or driving a topspin ball in a rally
- RPB flipping a short serve. Here I largely try to contact the ball thin and on the side of the ball (really like tacky in these situations to grab the ball) as I generally find if I hit the ball too think, it's easy to send the ball long.

So for the first 2 of those 3 type of shots, I generally used a naturally pretty closed face. That's why I like a tacky topsheet on the RPB.

But right now I play with Geospin tacky (use to have Evolution FXS on the RPB. Didn't like it. Topsheet wasn't all that good either. For the BH, I think Geospin Tacky is better for me compared to FXS) and it's a tacky topsheet on a medium sponge. Much slower when i bounce the ball on that compared to my FH Gambler Burst Thor's hammer sponge (tacky on hard sponge).

Anyways, often times when I RPB drive or loop a topspin ball, if I don't close the face of the paddle enough, man I will hear this crazy loud clack on the ball. Reminds me of the sound on your 2nd video OSP you posted called RPB flat hit. I think it's the sound of the ball going through my sponge and actually hitting the wood of my blade or bottoming out.

I try not to make a habit of this but since I'm largely driving & blocking with RPB most of the time, would I be better served with a firmer sponge a la FH like setup?

Does anybody else here do this? Prefer a more firm sponge on the BH for blocking, etc?

Atas Newton · Apr 9, 2018

Guys, entirely by chance I found this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer's_remorse#Paradox_of_choice
Now I know where a good part of the deadly EJ virus comes from

OldschoolPenholder · Apr 9, 2018

suds79 said:
OSP,

Man that's some good content. How awesome. Thx for posting all that. Very cool to keep providing content and to be able to meet up with other forum members. Sounds like a good time. Where are you located BTW?

Thank you suds! I'm just giving back to the forum. I'm in NYC and generally on the weekends, I can't make it out due to laundry, groceries, etc. Fortunate I was able to get them early enough to get on both days of the weekend.

So after thinking about out in something you mentioned earlier, I think you're right. There's no way I can let one of my main TT idols slip by me by not seeing him in person when he's just a 3 hour drive away. I think I'm going to try out that USATT tournament Aug 3-5 in Iowa City Iowa. Anybody else here going to be there?

I really am hating myself, hate is a very strong word, I was only about 1 hour away by train from seeing HZW and I didn't juggle my schedule to go see him in person

Good luck in the tournament and safe travels!

RPB talk:

I had a nice club session last night with RPB. Starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel of where I play my RPB more & more over TPB simply due to growing confidence. Also trying not to beat myself up if I mistakenly play a TPB instead of an RPB here & there. That type of negative talk doesn't help. Plus I actually think a TPB on the dredded crossover point is much easier than RPB anyways. So I don't mind it there.

But last night it was nice. Blocking felt good. My TPB is still more consistent but the RPB, as you might imagine, has a lot more pop and quality. Just have to get the consistency up.

Very cool on your RPB progress! I'm of 2 minds, I should've started from the ground up and learn RPB block/punch and then progress to flat hitting/smashing and then spinning. But then spinning is the hardest and I should start right off the bat (no pun) practicing it. So it's very cool to read of your RPB blocking!

The only TPB tactic that I'm somewhat successful with partners my level or lower is the rocket serve to their BH and they return to my BH and i TPB punch down the line. Despite trying to override that, I have not been able to. It's years of muscle memory from my youth and despte the 30+ yrs layoff, it's still in me. I find that surprising!

Question about RPB setup:

For years you hear the ideal setup is hard (some people like tacky) FH for agressive play. Softer more euro like sponge on the BH for consistency. I wonder if that's more ideal for shakehanders?

Because if I soft play for touch play on the BH or chop, float, etc, (basically anything with a more open face) I'm doing it TPB. If I play a RPB on my BH, it's generally 1 of 3 things happening.
- RPB Blocking a topspin ball in a rally
- RPB looping or driving a topspin ball in a rally
- RPB flipping a short serve. Here I largely try to contact the ball thin and on the side of the ball (really like tacky in these situations to grab the ball) as I generally find if I hit the ball too think, it's easy to send the ball long.

So for the first 2 of those 3 type of shots, I generally used a naturally pretty closed face. That's why I like a tacky topsheet on the RPB.

But right now I play with Geospin tacky (use to have Evolution FXS on the RPB. Didn't like it. Topsheet wasn't all that good either. For the BH, I think Geospin Tacky is better for me compared to FXS) and it's a tacky topsheet on a medium sponge. Much slower when i bounce the ball on that compared to my FH Gambler Burst Thor's hammer sponge (tacky on hard sponge).

Anyways, often times when I RPB drive or loop a topspin ball, if I don't close the face of the paddle enough, man I will hear this crazy loud clack on the ball. Reminds me of the sound on your 2nd video OSP you posted called RPB flat hit. I think it's the sound of the ball going through my sponge and actually hitting the wood of my blade or bottoming out.

I try not to make a habit of this but since I'm largely driving & blocking with RPB most of the time, would I be better served with a firmer sponge a la FH like setup?

Does anybody else here do this? Prefer a more firm sponge on the BH for blocking, etc?

In for advice on rubbers. I really still haven't learned the various rubbers.

I have a pea brain, despite reading reviews in general, I need to actually hit with the rubbers for some time before I know if it's right for me. I played with T80FX both sides for 6 mos or so... partly it may be my stubborness thinking I can adapt to the rubbers but it's too bouncy for my game/strokes. Certain aspects were great (loops), but other aspects (pushing/touch/float; serves; blocks) were bad. Same for T25 for me. But partly I am willing to try out new things and give it some time.

FWIW, my friend reco's the Xiom Pro Vega for RPB and I am getting used to it.

BTW, is 'drive' = 'flat hit'? I think of 'drive' as some topspin but more forward and fast vs 'loop' which has more spin and can be forward and a little slower. With 'flat hit' i think of no spin stroking/smashing.

OldschoolPenholder · Apr 9, 2018

atas newton said:
guys, entirely by chance i found this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/buyer's_remorse#paradox_of_choice
now i know where a good part of the deadly ej virus comes from

lolol

songdavid98 · Apr 9, 2018

OldschoolPenholder said:
Oh My Guoyuehua!

I met forum member songdavid98 when I went to meet up with 42andbackpains this past Saturday night. Originally I was to go meet up with 42&bp last Thursday, but I couldn't make it.

I hit with 42&bp for about an hour. He had to leave. I then hit with songdavid98. They both were gracious in their time with me and helping/teaching me RPB. They also had advice on my FH loop.

Unedited video

https://youtu.be/04uDPbLmoS8

0:00-1:20 - TPB punch with 42andbackpains
1:21-1:36 - trying to RPB punch
1:36-2:57 - I hit SH BH
2:58-8:18 RPB add spin, songdavid giving tips
8:19-end I RPB with songdavid98 and throughout he is giving pointers and correcting my stroke

Highlights

~9:07 NextLevel mention!
~15:42 member wants to play songdavid98
~20:11 i'm rushing throughout - slow it down and keep the same rhythm - strive for high quality shot
~23:45 songdavid98: "I pretend my BH is my FH"
~24:10-24:30 can do it slowly; "I like this. Everything is you."
~25:19-25:23 42andbackpains: "Your BH looks better than your FH." LOLOL

KEY POINTS OF RPB SPINNING

* Elbow high
* Add spin to each shot
* Shots should have an arc

Afterwards, I got to drill with songdavid98 (no video):

1. He FH loop to my TPB block/punch ... he noted I was not consistent with my stroke ... I was trying just to return his shots via TPB block/punch, and didn't use proper stroke 'cos i was lazy with footwork to get into proper position and trying to get used to the new setup

2. One to his FH and one to his BH

3. He pendulum served sidedown and I was to push back to his BH and he did whatever on 3rd ball ...my only comment is that his serve was incredible for me to witness! It seemed to bounce within 1 cm of the net on his side and then 1 cm from the net on my side and almost all of them were close to the edge. Pretty much perfect placement! If i was slow in stepping in, I would not be able to push back. OK i may be exaggerating a little, but it is not far from what happened!!

4. I then serve whatever and he 2nd ball whatever. I served some pendulum sidedown to his FH ... my serves were first bounce in the middle of the table, and some of the 2nd bounce very close to the net on his side. As well as I placed some of the serves, he showed why he is 2300... super fast footwork and smooth and fast FH loop, many of which were smoked past me!
--------------

Sunday night, i went to my new club. I hit with my friends P and "Mommy". Still trying to get used to the Tenergy 25. Then I had serve practice with the lady that has become a regular partner at the new club. As much as I tried to override my TPB punch down the line and use RPB, i cannot get it out of muscle memory. After a rocket serve to her BH, she BH to my BH and I TPB punched down the line. She didn't expect the speed of the punch so fast down the line.

She served pendulum side down and i pushed to her FH to help her FH loop out, she loops to my BH and I TPB angle block to her BH. She sometimes was caught.

I like training with her, as I mentioned before her FH is structurally faster than mine and I have a lot to learn from her on that. She has a punch/hook serve to my FH that catches me flatfooted. Some of my pushes bounced too high and off the table. Haven't gotten used to feel/touch needed with T25 for my pushing game.

I then RPB flat hit with my friend who is a coach. He wants to help me build the RPB up, instead of having me spin, he wanted to me get the flat hit first.

KEY POINTS OF RPB FLAT HITTING

* do not hit the ball at the top of the bounce
* wait a bit longer and let it drop before flat-hitting it back

https://youtu.be/71YLQ76Qtqg

After hitting RPB, i FH flat hit and looped with him. My balls bounced off too much. Still not used to it. I officially gave up on the T25 and changed to Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo on my FH. Still using Xiom Vega Pro on my BH. After glue dried, I tested the new rubber. I seem to have better control on my FH than with T25, although I know there were many shots my skill level couldn't have returned but the T25 did all the work and returned it. It's Yin-Yang though using T25, good that i make the shot back, but bad, it's not me, it's the rubber.

Deepest gratitude to songdavid98 and 42andbackpains!

Haha, too much praise, although I do admit that my serve is at a higher level than my actual playing level (you're lucky I was only serving one spin

). shhhh don't tell anybody else about my secret weapon

I notice that Kenny is giving you multiball in CCCF. That backhand looks good! I look forward to seeing your improvement!

OldschoolPenholder · Apr 9, 2018

songdavid98 said:
Haha, too much praise, although I do admit that my serve is at a higher level than my actual playing level (you're lucky I was only serving one spin ). shhhh don't tell anybody else about my secret weapon

I notice that Kenny is giving you multiball in CCCF. That backhand looks good! I look forward to seeing your improvement!

LOL at "too much praise" - all deserved!

I got old man memory, i don't recall your secret weapon LOL

Met Kenny when he visited Lost Battalion one night a few months ago via a mutual friend "Mommy". I was on a table mainly blocking for friends, then 1 coach came by and I blocked for him. Kenny was watching and wanted to hit a few with me and I did. I really don't recall hitting with him that night. He mentioned to Mommy that we should check out the 'new' CCCF club and I had a foundation but needed tweaking as sometimes my strokes were mostly correct but then sometimes I'm "freestyling" as you called it LOL. We went and I hit a little with him there, despite not recalling his face, after I hit with him, i recall his strokes LOL

When he has time, he hits with me a little and/or multiball. CCCF is a bit of a longer travel for me, but generally there are free tables there unlike Lost Battalion where sometimes there's a long wait. LB is more spacious per table. Yin-Yang of both clubs.

Thank you for the kind words! As 42andbackpains said to me, modern game is about spin and i won't have that many chances to flat hit. I rush my shots so i have to learn to take my time and wait a little. Thank you for your time and tips RPB. i feel the extended fingers grip help my RPB and instead of using my traditional curled fingers grip, I will adapt to the extended fingers for other aspects of my game which will be hard for me initially.

I think, for now, I'm better at the flat hit than spinning. Hitting with you, i felt I'm on some shots i was 'getting' the right stroke and feeling on the RPB spinning. Have to keep that feeling in mind as well as elbow up.

Thank you again!

Nuke Skywalker · Apr 9, 2018

OldschoolPenholder said:
Oh My Guoyuehua!

I met forum member songdavid98 when I went to meet up with 42andbackpains this past Saturday night. Originally I was to go meet up with 42&bp last Thursday, but I couldn't make it.

I hit with 42&bp for about an hour. He had to leave. I then hit with songdavid98. They both were gracious in their time with me and helping/teaching me RPB. They also had advice on my FH loop.

...............truncated...................

Deepest gratitude to songdavid98 and 42andbackpains!

This is excellent! Nice that you were able to all meet up. David Song seems like a great player to learn from having watched him in some videos. Well done!

Nuke Skywalker · Apr 9, 2018

I think have reached a no-return threshold where I have to pursue double inverted play now. I attempted to play as a chopper about a week ago and got creamed by someone I have never lost to. I then played double inverted and won fairly handily.

I have also finally come to grips with the idea that ALL+/OFF- blades, true to all of the clichés are best for me. I currently play a Joola Rossi Emotion which I have great control with, and a newish Stiga Alllround NCT, which offers great control. I think the Rossi is a little bit better for me right now as I have spent the most time with it. But I have to give the NCT a shot. I love the feel of both these blades.

I think fast(ish) rubbers on a medium speed blade is far better than slow rubbers on a fast blade. Putting Karis or something like that on the JRE or SAN is just too anemic in terms of power. Some of that is technique for sure, but I need to wood to do a little of the work. Upon switching back, my consistency improved immediately. It was pretty astonishing how out of control I was by comparison. That's where I'm at with equipment.

I still tend to play a double inverted chopping game at times or an “allround” game for about 20% of my play. It happens when my attacking (which is weaker than my defense) tends to start losing me points. I then can get back into the rally play away from the table.

My opponents noted that my best loops come from mid to long distance. Both wings. Interesting. Still a lot of artifacts from playing as a defender continue to creep into my game even though I am attempting become more offensive minded.

Other notes, my practice partner recently said I loop too vertically and do not have enough forward trajectory. Another team mate says I don't loop vertically enough, but rather go to forward. Another (former) team mate said my loop is fine, I just need to work on consistency. I give up. Haha.

Der_Echte · Apr 10, 2018

Trust your last team mate and go from there.

hillwalker · Apr 10, 2018

So I am very fortunate that we have a table at work and I am able to play a few games daily, during our lunch break or after hours. I'm now trying to guide my co-workers on the painful journey from basement-level players, into club-level players. This week I persuaded everyone to chip in for some Friendship bats with 729 inverted rubber, and some DHS 3-star plastic balls. These have replaced the cheap short-pips bats and old celluloid balls.

The reaction has been positive. The best player loves it, seemed to adjust instantly and has already made some great powerful and spinny shots. I think he's finally able to put the spin on the ball he's been trying to for years! If only he put any effort into his serves he would be a great opponent. (I make sure he wins about half the games we play as he's more senior than me haha)

The newest player on the other hand, is pretty demoralised. Hates the spin. We have a bit of an agreement to play gently with him. He seems to have a pretty good backhand chop, so I've been encouraging him to try playing defensively. The others haven't changed their game much, but are loving the extra spin.

JeffM · Apr 10, 2018

Your RPB in the video looks good OSP!

Going to ask for 9 points if we ever meet up

Good to hear the Cantonese from the 2nd video!

OldschoolPenholder · Apr 10, 2018

JeffM said:
Your RPB in the video looks good OSP!

Going to ask for 9 points if we ever meet up
Good to hear the Cantonese from the 2nd video!

Si-hing,

Funny comment from coach friend ... I didn't know i was on video ... i have another clip and he says to "Mommy" who is taking video and he points at her, she is also learning RPB, "you should try for this type of hit", then he added "it's almost as good as Wang Hao's/ Wong Ho's" ..
We all laughed

JeffM · Apr 11, 2018

Videos of my practice yesterday.

1. Forehand

2. Backhand

3. Backhand punch cross court and down the line

4. Forehand and backhand at backhand corner

5. Alternate forehand and backhand

Any advice / suggestion welcomed!

Boogar · Apr 11, 2018

Today I played against a 2200-2300ish player. His forehand was insanely powerful and spiny. How can i block slow and veeery spiny topspins? On my Backhand i can block them quiet well. But on my forehand i have big problems. However, I am not sure why.
I think it could be something like catching the ball and then closing the bat, while the ball is in the rubber?

Cheers

songdavid98 · Apr 11, 2018

Boogar said:
Today I played against a 2200-2300ish player. His forehand was insanely powerful and spiny. How can i block slow and veeery spiny topspins? On my Backhand i can block them quiet well. But on my forehand i have big problems. However, I am not sure why.
I think it could be something like catching the ball and then closing the bat, while the ball is in the rubber?

Cheers

raise your backswing, so that you end up going forward, and less upward. A video of yourself would help though

NextLevel · Apr 12, 2018

Boogar said:
Today I played against a 2200-2300ish player. His forehand was insanely powerful and spiny. How can i block slow and veeery spiny topspins? On my Backhand i can block them quiet well. But on my forehand i have big problems. However, I am not sure why.
I think it could be something like catching the ball and then closing the bat, while the ball is in the rubber?

Cheers

The key to handling heavy topspin is to be above the ball and take it early. Come around the side if it helps. People who always drop their paddles struggle to handle heavy topspin.

JeffM · Apr 12, 2018

Another video where I would like some input / advice as to how to increase the percentage of my backspin serves over the net.

The spin seems to be fine when the serve do go over the net, but currently the success rate is too low for me to try in a match.
I wonder if I need to contact the ball at a slightly higher height so the 2nd bounce can go over the net?

Thanks alot guys!

Nuke Skywalker · Apr 12, 2018

Just thought I'd add a little humor to the day...

songdavid98 · Apr 12, 2018

JeffM said:
Another video where I would like some input / advice as to how to increase the percentage of my backspin serves over the net.

The spin seems to be fine when the serve do go over the net, but currently the success rate is too low for me to try in a match.
I wonder if I need to contact the ball at a slightly higher height so the 2nd bounce can go over the net?

Thanks alot guys!

You have to hit the ball downward on to the table consistently first. The goal is the aim your the bounce on your side of the table into the same spot consistently. If you can do that, it should go over the net with no problem.

Carry the ball down with your racket. Your racket is supposed to go down with the ball.

**********

Look at your own video. When you hit the ball, the ball is going up! That should not be happening. For pretty much all short serves, the ball should be going forward, bouncing halfway to the net.

Right now, your racket is going forwards a lot, but you aren't able to consistently control your first bounce, so you're missing a lot.

Here's an old video of mine. You can go between frames by pausing the video and pressing the comma and period buttons (, and .)

You can see how my racket goes downwards, making the ball bounce to the right spot on the table.

You can go frame by frame, and see that when I start my swing, every frame, my racket closely follows the height of the ball.

Also, you should contact the ball at a higher point

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