Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

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Well NL, if you make it to the US OPen this year in LA, I can take you to a few Korean BBQ and the magic Lettuce, Onion, and Garlic + Beef Rib therapy is so golden.

Der, where are you from?

I would think NorCal, but if you ever come down to OC let me know and we can play at OCTTA :)

 
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Yesterday night had a good fortune to meet a certain visiting player who goes by the name Mr Wee. He told me that he was active in 2000's to mid 2000's in Arkansas state TT championship, saying he was five year back-to-back champion for Arkansas. He plays with short pips and with a pen-hold grip. His last ranking in the USATT is 2300'ish.

Anyone here recognised him?
 
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Der, where are you from?

I would think NorCal, but if you ever come down to OC let me know and we can play at OCTTA :)

Where is Der_Echte from ??? SOUTH CENTRAL.

Did I live there long? no. I was in military for 30 yrs, so I had been away from Cali.

Do I go down to LA area? I usually do that 1-2 times a year. I want to go to the LA Open and the Us Open this year, so one way or another I will be down there again causing trouble.

Do I know the Koreans down there... or more importantly, do the Korean restaurant owners RUN FOR THE HILLS when they see Der_Echte enter the restaurant, because Der_Echte will eat EVERY DAMN piece of lettuce, spinach, beansprout, onion, and any beef that got delivered that day.

I usually make it a point to visit OCTTA, a lot of the Vietnamese crowd knows or would remember me for the trouble maker I am. How do I cause trouble there? I mostly try to make people have fun and coach the U2000 crowd for free.
 
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Hey All. been at school all day today, all I've been thinking about is TT, sadly my parents only let me play 3 times per week, because of study. but i really enjoy my Wednesday fun nights and my Thursday and Friday training sessions with the New Zealand national coach. went to nationals for the first time and won my first match outside of Northland.
 
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Hey All. been at school all day today, all I've been thinking about is TT, sadly my parents only let me play 3 times per week, because of study. but i really enjoy my Wednesday fun nights and my Thursday and Friday training sessions with the New Zealand national coach. went to nationals for the first time and won my first match outside of Northland.

Prove to them that you can study effective and get good grades despite practicing more. I do not think they have any problem with you practicing, they are just afraid your grades will drop. It is possible to practice everyday if you study effective.

 
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I haven't been able to practice as much as I used to. Usually 1-2 times a week now, sometimes less. Other things have started taking priority, plus I'm still having some small injuries.

But despite that I love practicing and prefer practice matches to league and tournaments. We went up a division this season and it has been extremely tough for me. Some guys I've played have like 40 years of experience and my weaknesses have really been exposed. It again shows the importance of experience and exposure. I'm happy with how I perform in practice, in general. I don't know if I have the drive and time anymore to make the improvements I really want to make.

Something opponents particularly take advantage of is that I back away from the table too much and I'm too easy to read. They also see that I struggle to play BH after I've looped into my opponents BH. As can be seen in the drill where I loop vs push into my opponents BH I often play a compromised BH when blocked to my BH. Maybe I need to move faster back faster to the BH after having played the FH or it's some technical issue.. or both.

Here's some practice footage:
 
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I haven't been able to practice as much as I used to. Usually 1-2 times a week now, sometimes less. Other things have started taking priority, plus I'm still having some small injuries.

But despite that I love practicing and prefer practice matches to league and tournaments. We went up a division this season and it has been extremely tough for me. Some guys I've played have like 40 years of experience and my weaknesses have really been exposed. It again shows the importance of experience and exposure. I'm happy with how I perform in practice, in general. I don't know if I have the drive and time anymore to make the improvements I really want to make.

Something opponents particularly take advantage of is that I back away from the table too much and I'm too easy to read. They also see that I struggle to play BH after I've looped into my opponents BH. As can be seen in the drill where I loop vs push into my opponents BH I often play a compromised BH when blocked to my BH. Maybe I need to move faster back faster to the BH after having played the FH or it's some technical issue.. or both.

Here's some practice footage:

If your back is good, play the forehand band and backhand with the core, - your problem is that the forehand is arm powered so the stroke finishes too high, but you then want to take the ball in front of you rather than take it where it shows up with a circular loop with the backhand. IF you recover and try to play the backhand with a circular stroke around the elbow, you might add some sidespin but you will do better I think. My lower level opinion. You do something like this later in the drill when you back up from the table but you should replicate it closer to the table.

When I say with the core, you don't really get your body behind your backhand when you play it close to the table so I think there is a timing or power problem that needs to be solved to get the desired effect.

 
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Hi Richie,

Something opponents particularly take advantage of is that I back away from the table too much and I'm too easy to read. They also see that I struggle to play BH after I've looped into my opponents BH. As can be seen in the drill where I loop vs push into my opponents BH I often play a compromised BH when blocked to my BH. Maybe I need to move faster back faster to the BH after having played the FH or it's some technical issue.. or both.


I want to say first I do myself a lot of those drills with my coaches.
in relation to your own self-assessment here are my comments to your snippet videos:

- in those drills too, I think you're a bit far from the table. so you need to move more and quicker but you have difficulties to do that

- you do have more power than i do in your shots, but i think you're not doing this drill for the right purpose. the purpose of this 2-2 drill is to improve FH to BH switch and footwork. but way too often you hit the 2nd FH out and you're not even going to the BH more than 50% of the time. its a bit of a waste of time.

so i believe in this drill you should learn to slow down the 2nd FH and play this one a bit slower with more spin, to give you a little extra time to go to the BH.
the most difficult part of this drill is precisely doing the first BH after the 2nd FH. its easier for everybody to play the 1st FH after the 2nd BH.
So i think you should change the way to do this drill. This is not a drill where you want to improve your FH power or technique. This is about footwork, being able to move from the 2 side of the tables and switching stance and grip. Focus more on your footwork and sensations rather than trying to execute the perfect shot for each shot.

- if after practicing with slowing down a bit the 2nd FH you don't get good consistency and quality on the next BH, then i may have to suggest to get closer to the table a little bit. Yes its not your current style, but maybe your current style implies more fitness, more training, something maybe you had younger, but as we all get older, i think its better to play closer to the table.

- regarding the drill where after the FH loop the guy blocks to your BH. i think the problem is you play without intention of playing the 5th ball. If there is no uncertainty in the drill, its easier, focus on switching quickly to the BH grip and stance after the loop, and on the TIMING of the BH. focus on playing a controlled shot with spin and not a fast BH, but with a precise timing, which I believe should be just after the top of the bounce as often as possible. Never let it drop too much.
if there is uncertainty, well you can be in the mindset of giving priority to a FH or BH next and if the ball goes where expected you play a strong shot, and if not, then a more neutral shot, but even if the ball goes to the BH try to get that ball with a faster timing. Your opening loop is good quality and giving you an advantage but on the next shot you're immediately playing a weak one because you look surprised and / or you're not in the mindset of taking that ball early.

- generally speaking i think you don't seem to be doing enough of these little adjustment steps. So if the ball is not exactly where you want it to be, and because you're always going for a powerful shot, there's a bigger risk of mistake. One reason is that your comrade blocking for you is very good and precise in his blocking, to put it at the same place. The other is that you play always the same FH.
As for me, i have also much less control than you and when i do this exercise, there is a lot of variation between my shots: i'll have difficulty to aim at the same spot. As a result, the ball comes back more randomly as well. On the other hand, because of the ball placement coming back more randomly i am forced to make more of these small adjustments and to bounce more between each shot.
I think you're lacking a bit of that, and by voluntarily putting yourself more variations with your FH you'll get more randomness from your blocker and that will force you to adjust more and bounce more. That will be also more relatable to matchplay.

Cheers
 
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If your back is good, play the forehand band and backhand with the core, - your problem is that the forehand is arm powered so the stroke finishes too high, but you then want to take the ball in front of you rather than take it where it shows up with a circular loop with the backhand. IF you recover and try to play the backhand with a circular stroke around the elbow, you might add some sidespin but you will do better I think. My lower level opinion. You do something like this later in the drill when you back up from the table but you should replicate it closer to the table.

When I say with the core, you don't really get your body behind your backhand when you play it close to the table so I think there is a timing or power problem that needs to be solved to get the desired effect.

Thanks guys.
@takkyu Good observations, I don't like slowing down 😆 but realistically it's what I need to do to really do this drill properly.

NL, when you say use the core, do you mean bending a bit more with the back or at the hips and this unbending motion? Like going from a bit scrunched up to unscrunched?

I try to do this both close and further from the table. But I struggle to find the right feeling.
​​​​​​

 
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Thanks guys.
@takkyu Good observations, I don't like slowing down 😆 but realistically it's what I need to do to really do this drill properly.

NL, when you say use the core, do you mean bending a bit more with the back or at the hips and this unbending motion? Like going from a bit scrunched up to unscrunched?

I try to do this both close and further from the table. But I struggle to find the right feeling.
​​​​​​

Yes, the bend is ideal but not required, just something that shows that you are trying to put something from the legs/core into the ball, even a circular rotation of the hips. You could even rotate the upper body a little to play the shot, but your arm won't get it done by itself. I was looking for an ancient video with cross backhand footwork but I couldn't find it. But there are many ways to do this, just about anything that feels as if weight is flowing through the hips in some form works, even the ones you think are incorrect. I have played backhands with my weight going in exactly the opposite direction from what I think is right, and I am at a point where on the backhand I have no clue what is right anymore from a quality standpoint.

In terms of quality, I find that sometimes, you need to find your swing and figure out what point on the ball works for your stroke. Keep testing different contact points until you find one that feels reliable and good to you to get the ball to do what you want it to do. And then just continue using it as long as it gives you the quality you are looking for. when I go down the line as a right hander, I always feel as if with my basic stroke I am hitting the left side of the ball. When I go cross court, I always feel like I am hitting the right side. It probably isn't that way in reality, but it gives me something to consistently repeat. and something I can use to calibrate my swing in practice.

Takkyu's comments about being too far away for the ball/not in the right position are spot on, though I differ a bit on solution. I would say that ultimately, it is a good thing to learn to spin the ball where it shows up when you have misread it, usually by contacting the ball on the side, rather than waiting for the ball with a technique that requires it to be at specific point, and then reaching forward. You have the backhand technique to spin it where it shows up, you just have to accept that it isn't going to be as direct as you might like, but put some more spin into the ball.
 
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So I hate doing this because we are not these guys, but notice how he plays when he comes back. Yes he has a lower base, but you can see him through his body into the shot for the backhand - if he tried to setup and play it like you do, he would be late.

You are practicing a footwork drill that will not help you under pressure in a match. What Harimoto is doing is the kind of thing you would find much more natural when out of position under pressure.

https://youtu.be/jogoXXhS5_8?t=189
 
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So I hate doing this because we are not these guys, but notice how he plays when he comes back. Yes he has a lower base, but you can see him through his body into the shot for the backhand - if he tried to setup and play it like you do, he would be late.

You are practicing a footwork drill that will not help you under pressure in a match. What Harimoto is doing is the kind of thing you would find much more natural when out of position under pressure.

https://youtu.be/jogoXXhS5_8?t=189

Thanks NL.
So I should reach a bit/adapt my arm position and hit the ball more on the side depending on where the incoming ball is, rather than always attempting to hit the ball right in front?

 
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Thanks NL.
So I should reach a bit/adapt my arm position and hit the ball more on the side depending on where the incoming ball is, rather than always attempting to hit the ball right in front?

Yes - and don't just try to loop the ball with the arm, use your legs and your core to throw as much into the ball as you can while using the follow through to stay in balance and get ready for the next ball. As long as you make contact with the ball and feel like you are hitting a solid stroke, that is the most important thing. IT is hard to get behind the ball and do that on the move with the backhand with a set stroke, so you need to be flexible with your position as long as your backhand backswing with the bent elbow is set. If you have the bent elbow position, take it to the ball and only play/release it when the ball shows up.

 
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Yes - and don't just try to loop the ball with the arm, use your legs and your core to throw as much into the ball as you can while using the follow through to stay in balance and get ready for the next ball. As long as you make contact with the ball and feel like you are hitting a solid stroke, that is the most important thing. IT is hard to get behind the ball and do that on the move with the backhand with a set stroke, so you need to be flexible with your position as long as your backhand backswing with the bent elbow is set. If you have the bent elbow position, take it to the ball and only play/release it when the ball shows up.

The irony is that I'm trying my very best here to not play so arm oriented and trying to push with my legs as I backswing. But I guess it isn't the way I imagine it. I find it very difficult to find the right feeling for it.

But one takeaway is to be flexible with my arm position, which I used to think was the way to go, but then I got into my mind that I should be playing the same/a similar stroke all the time and move to the ball. But that's difficult practically as we see, so maybe a bit unrealistic.

 
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The irony is that I'm trying my very best here to not play so arm oriented and trying to push with my legs as I backswing. But I guess it isn't the way I imagine it. I find it very difficult to find the right feeling for it.

But one takeaway is to be flexible with my arm position, which I used to think was the way to go, but then I got into my mind that I should be playing the same/a similar stroke all the time and move to the ball. But that's difficult practically as we see, so maybe a bit unrealistic.

I can see that, the same stroke concept has strengths and limitations. Are you the same Richie as you were yesterday? Is Harimoto playing the same backhand in the clip I sent you that he plays? After all it is Harimoto's backhand.

Just pretend you have two backhands now, one for each situation or something like that. As long as you dont compromise your technique and balance unless you intend to end the point, it isn't the end of the world. Pros make similar compromises just at a different level since they have forever to try to fix whatever they care about

 
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