Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
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I think Archos clearly said that if a 100 kg behemoth like Der_Echte can move to an acceptable position to hit a ball, Archo (or anyone can).

That is what I got from Archo's post and man, 100 kg behemoth... yup, good description of me. NL calls himself a lumberjack, so we are all in the same slow moving boat, but at least we are moving. Heck, master Robert Chen sez he has footwor of a dinosaur, but it is a bad-azz dinosaur and it is still proper footwork. Man, we gotta go see him, I GOTTA be at a higher level than the last time I visited his club.

Does Archo need a coach? Well, did Hillary delete tens of thousands of official emails? Does Der_Echte need a coach? Affirmative, Ghost Rider. Whisky 7 out.

Okay. Next time there is a mission to NYC, I will try to make sure we go to one of Robert Chen's clubs and that he is there.
 
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I love playing against junk rubbers. They're so fun to play against. I love seeing their shocked faces as I perfectly read their 'confusing spins' and punish their shots.

As for your question about the long pips sideways glide, it sort of depends on the player and the length of the pips. In general, if the backspin is strong enough, long pips will generally give back some topspin. However, if your serve doesn't have enough spin, it will probably just come back as no spin.

So to answer your question: It mostly depends on what YOU DO.

***
More info:
However, some players that are good can actually vary spin on their shot, although it is really hard. A lot of long pip players can both reverse and cancel spin to some extent. Very few players can send back underspin from underspin (it is very rare).

If you can't think clearly, then there's not much I can help you with. But you should definitely try to plan out how you would respond every time you serve or hit to the pips. Generally, try to serve long to long pips (not always though).


************

I think I know why you lost the next three games.

I don't really know how you play, but I'm guessing either

1) you beat the player with aggressive shots. After winning 11-1, you probably stopped playing aggressively, thinking that you would be able to win with just not-so-aggressive shots.

2) you beat the player by outlasting them. After winning 11-1, you became more confident and made aggressive shots.

Either way, I'm guessing that you changed your playstyle after winning 11-1. I would too, but I would only do so after a big lead, like 10-2 or something. Give your 100% when it is 0-0.

Thanks for the explanation. I feel it is more like he got more used to my spin shots and my serves. And for not thinking straight, I kept serving short backspin or long topspin to him, but just not long backspin. That didn't work well lol.

Either way, I think I know how to prepare myself better next time (by not having a big meal / rushing to eat before the match).
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
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Yeah, but we never went to Korean NJ Han-in TTC. People know me there too, maybe know me better.

Robert Chen will be a great visit when his floors have more traction than NHL hockey playing surface.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

It is true that the next mission should be somewhere new. Henry actually suggested Philly when we conferred on Tuesday. I have a feeling NextLevel may approve of that idea.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
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Thanks :) We are playing in our club hall. Almost no one comes to train so we have heaps of space :) It wasn't an official training time tho.

Jea I started using my former blade the Stiga allround classic. Even though i liked the vega pro blade very much it was too fast for me. In practice it worked nicely, but in matches the consistency falls apart. So i rather get one more ball back on the table. Even if its not a rocket.

Maybe i will switch back... testing testing :)
That's pretty nice. How many days per week you can go to the training hall? Your club also has league players that don't train but still play matches? I know a few people that told me they don't train anymore, they just play league matches. Despite that, they're playing on a pretty high level (for Dutch standards). Although they've trained for a long time and also started playing when they were <10 years old. I wish I started to play much earlier as well :)

About doing a few steps back regarding equipment, that's something I haven't seen yet. I don't play that long yet, but I've already seen several people that just want faster, faster, faster. Then it's questionable if they can tame those warp speed rackets :)
I would share your view on this, consistency > speed.
 
says what [IMG]
Carl, your idea of a proper swing might be different from mine. A proper swing for me is simply a swing that's hit when I'm not moving, and it feels like I'm rotating around my center. It feels a lot better if I get those right, because I usually don't.

Sometimes I make a misjudgment and I lean into the ball a little or lean backwards just a little because I was too far or too close, so you're definitely right that I have problems tracking the ball and moving myself to it.

However up to now while I understood roughly where I wanted the ball to be when I hit it, I couldn't feel with my body how I need to move to get there for real, when a ball is coming at me with it's own arc and speed that changes over it's flight path.

I know I am CAPABLE of moving there because I had practiced it with self hitting, when I would throw the ball, move to it, then hit it. I'm not physically incapable of legs first, stroke second. Just when a ball is flying at me, I tend to reach first, then legs second. I can see the ball quite well actually, often it flies more or less exactly how I think it will, but I don't know what to "do" with the ball.


Now the catch is, I didn't actually have an intimate understanding of the difference between my self hitting footwork and my live ball footwork.

Now I think that because in my self hitting, because a ball is not moving at me, I don't need to "meet" the ball, so I just need to move to somewhere on the ground. I can understand that, and I move there with my legs, and then I hit the ball. I cannot hit the ball if I don't move there, so I must move there.

With a live ball, because I more or less know where it's gonna go, I try to "meet" the ball, or like you've said it before, get "behind" the ball. I'm not thinking "I need to move to point X that is next to the ball". I'm thinking "I need to get to the ball".
However I need to do a stroke as well, so I end up doing both at the same time or usually my stroke first as it's easier to move the hand first.

I only realized this a little later in the day. It was a pretty big revelation for me. Such a simple thing but I hadn't really thought about it. I didn't understand how low level shots could cause time pressure on me sometimes, but now I understand it's because I'm barely moving as well as I can. It FEELS like I'm moving because it's so unoptimal and thus a bit difficult, but all I'm really doing is falling into the ball.

So today I was just basically walking around, at least it felt like it compared to my stumbling, and everything was so much easier. I still did a LOT of leaning, trust me, but on balls that I have no business leaning, I tried to move to them with my legs. Maybe 20% of the time I moved how I feel is right.


I think now what I need to do is simple footwork drills. Start thinking of moving to the ball as needing to get to a point on the ground instead of TO the ball, and try my best to do it with my legs.

I know it's horribly simple, but this raised my game like crazy. I'm also re-evaluating my stance on cross-steps: they're mostly unnecessary at the speed and spin that I play at. I will try to eliminate all cross stepping from my game and substitute it with shuffle steps and one steps with better form. They are efficient enough and I can move surprisingly well if I move with my legs. I kind of understand NL's point on this, now.


I know it's a given, but the comments from the more veteran players here at TTD are absolutely gold. I don't think I'd ever have gained the little understanding I gained today if Carl wouldn't have brought it up and made me really think about it and try to find some objective view on what I'm really doing.

I must also apologize for all the nonsense I've said up to now: although I feel it was necessary. I'm too stubborn. ;)

The good thing about this is that I understand so little, that when I understand very little more, it feels like I'm really making tangible progress. Maybe that's why it always sounds like I'm talking about miracles when I talk about my development: but trust me, I'm not. It's actually kind of fun to be at a low beginner level, there's very little straight out stagnation and plateaus.
 
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It is true that the next mission should be somewhere new. Henry actually suggested Philly when we conferred on Tuesday. I have a feeling NextLevel may approve of that idea.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

You guys do know that I have 24/7 access to the club in Philly, right?
 
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I think Archos clearly said that if a 100 kg behemoth like Der_Echte can move to an acceptable position to hit a ball, Archo (or anyone can).

That is what I got from Archo's post and man, 100 kg behemoth... yup, good description of me. NL calls himself a lumberjack, so we are all in the same slow moving boat, but at least we are moving. Heck, master Robert Chen sez he has footwor of a dinosaur, but it is a bad-azz dinosaur and it is still proper footwork. Man, we gotta go see him, I GOTTA be at a higher level than the last time I visited his club.

Does Archo need a coach? Well, did Hillary delete tens of thousands of official emails? Does Der_Echte need a coach? Affirmative, Ghost Rider. Whisky 7 out.

BTW, I was going to respond to this in detail and explain in greater detail the differences between athleticism/movement and footwork that you alluded to in your response. But then I remembered the reason why I put Archo on my ignore list a few days ago was that in addition to his being perpetually dishonest, I don't want to deal with writing such posts and pushing ideas down a black hole and have to deal with people who haven't figured out why Rich DeWitt can beat people standing in one spot while his opponents run all over the universe. I have more than enough stuff to do already.
 
says what [IMG]
Although I can well understand why NL hates my guts and doesn't want to waste his time explaining things for free, it is a shame that no one else will hear his thoughts, I guess.

NL's footwork is deceptively good and I've only really started to get that recently, so I have a lot of respect for his views on the topic.
 
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It is true that the next mission should be somewhere new. Henry actually suggested Philly when we conferred on Tuesday. I have a feeling NextLevel may approve of that idea.

as much as i would love to join you all in philly or nj, mrs osph has me in the doghouse for some time... i may not even be able to attend a nyc get-together :(

but last was worth it, what a magical experience for me!

i cannot say this enough, Thank you Carl, PPholic, Der, NL, and 42&bp!!
 
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Reposting from Der in NYC thread

---------------------------------------------

OK Der_Echte's Fan Club, for your TT Entertainment and LOLZ at me

Here is an edited video of my match with Der from this past Sat's Goon Squad NYC Mission:


Highlights video includes parts of his Jedi-mind-tricking me ... most of the match, i was 500 level on serve receive and edited those out, Der didn't return some of my serves, mostly edited out also. Included the decent shots by both of us, but mostly the video is to highlight Der's trashtalking/jedi mind tricking game!

Enjoy at my expense! :)
 
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as much as i would love to join you all in philly or nj, mrs osph has me in the doghouse for some time... i may not even be able to attend a nyc get-together :(

but last was worth it, what a magical experience for me!

i cannot say this enough, Thank you Carl, PPholic, Der, NL, and 42&bp!!

It doesn't have to be any time soon.
 
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Now you know why I just read and don't post that much these days .... at least anything serious ... you know a lot more and have a lot more to contribute so may be ignoring him is worth it , these days I read through his posts with the BS filter on , whenever I see he is feeding his own ego with his own BS , I just ignore .... we have seen his video and we know he is 800 with a 2700 mouth
BTW, I was going to respond to this in detail and explain in greater detail the differences between athleticism/movement and footwork that you alluded to in your response. But then I remembered the reason why I put Archo on my ignore list a few days ago was that in addition to his being perpetually dishonest, I don't want to deal with writing such posts and pushing ideas down a black hole and have to deal with people who haven't figured out why Rich DeWitt can beat people standing in one spot while his opponents run all over the universe. I have more than enough stuff to do already.
 
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Posted this last night to Der in NYC thread as it was a Nexy review, reposting here as it was my AAR from last night ...

THIS POST DEDICATED TO MY MAN JEFFM!

-----------------------------

Nexy Amazon CPen - Day 3 review

Monday I only had a single sheet of rubber and was used to it, played decently enough with it in a match... as well as using it Sunday and playing decently ...

Last night, put on the back a used DHS H3 rubber... tried to hit FH and fh loop... weight threw me way off, couldn't make any shots :(

1) hit with a player about my level ... first time I ever saw him ... maybe he is using old rubber or Chinese rubber, ball seems to die out, ph with Phantom on back

Couldn't hit fh, couldn't loop...

Resorted to BH blocking and I was very decent with the extra weight ... didn't vibrate as much, but still made some sounds

After about 20 mins hitting, he wanted to play a set ... he won first easily as I tried to find my attacks, even missed smashes, my prime attack

2nd game, got some of my smashes in... jumped to early commanding lead and closed it out... 3rd game, he won close, 4th game I won close ... what turned it around for me was recalling JeffM posting in the Daily TT Chit Chat thread about the middle point where players need to decide between fh or bh

I served a rocket to his middle point and caught him indecisive and he popped up ball, and i went into hulk smash mode

He couldn't return my side top or rocket serves, so 5th game, i poured it on with just those 2 serves and won convincingly iirc

Physically felt lethargic, didn't pace myself with hydration

2) hit with the gentleman from last night, he is a jpen 1800 player... blocked his loops and Amazon with 2 rubbers was pretty good, here and there I needed to make adjustments for the weight

He was just warming up with me as he was next in another table... we hit for ~30 mins

3) wanted to take a break, kind of wiped out, but M2, a 2300 player, asked me to hit with him ... despite fatigue/dehydration feelings, I obliged

We usually start slowly and progressively increased speed and power... he was bh smashing and I bh blocked

We then did serves and 3rd ball drills, i still couldn't quite nail the loop due to added weight

After 20 mins or so, a 2200 player showed up and M2 was going to have me hit with him, but I declined citing fatigue

Rested for 40 mins or so and left... not happy with my performance tonight ... it may be in my head about the added weight, it may be also due to not enough rest, been playing since saturday

Will see what I can do tomorrow night and report back ... no video of tonight's play
 
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Posted this last night to Der in NYC thread as it was a Nexy review, reposting here as it was my AAR from last night ...

THIS POST DEDICATED TO MY MAN JEFFM!

-----------------------------

Nexy Amazon CPen - Day 3 review

Monday I only had a single sheet of rubber and was used to it, played decently enough with it in a match... as well as using it Sunday and playing decently ...

Last night, put on the back a used DHS H3 rubber... tried to hit FH and fh loop... weight threw me way off, couldn't make any shots :(

1) hit with a player about my level ... first time I ever saw him ... maybe he is using old rubber or Chinese rubber, ball seems to die out, ph with Phantom on back

Couldn't hit fh, couldn't loop...

Resorted to BH blocking and I was very decent with the extra weight ... didn't vibrate as much, but still made some sounds

After about 20 mins hitting, he wanted to play a set ... he won first easily as I tried to find my attacks, even missed smashes, my prime attack

2nd game, got some of my smashes in... jumped to early commanding lead and closed it out... 3rd game, he won close, 4th game I won close ... what turned it around for me was recalling JeffM posting in the Daily TT Chit Chat thread about the middle point where players need to decide between fh or bh

I served a rocket to his middle point and caught him indecisive and he popped up ball, and i went into hulk smash mode

He couldn't return my side top or rocket serves, so 5th game, i poured it on with just those 2 serves and won convincingly iirc

Physically felt lethargic, didn't pace myself with hydration

2) hit with the gentleman from last night, he is a jpen 1800 player... blocked his loops and Amazon with 2 rubbers was pretty good, here and there I needed to make adjustments for the weight

He was just warming up with me as he was next in another table... we hit for ~30 mins

3) wanted to take a break, kind of wiped out, but M2, a 2300 player, asked me to hit with him ... despite fatigue/dehydration feelings, I obliged

We usually start slowly and progressively increased speed and power... he was bh smashing and I bh blocked

We then did serves and 3rd ball drills, i still couldn't quite nail the loop due to added weight

After 20 mins or so, a 2200 player showed up and M2 was going to have me hit with him, but I declined citing fatigue

Rested for 40 mins or so and left... not happy with my performance tonight ... it may be in my head about the added weight, it may be also due to not enough rest, been playing since saturday

Will see what I can do tomorrow night and report back ... no video of tonight's play

I feel so honoured to have a dedicated post! I was reading about psychiatry and just about to fall asleep as it is nearly bed time, and then the red bold text in your post made me open my eyes! hahaha
Well done OSP! I am glad that my failure can be helpful for others.

Edit: to make my post table tennis related, I didn't play today, but I thought alot about the mid point thing, and then I remembered that either NL or Der has previously commented on my stance on receiving serve, how I am standing with my right foot too in front (horizontal with my left foot). So tmr in practice, I will stand with my left foot in front, and try to adapt to that. Hopefully it will improve my serve receive without too much adjustment!
 
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says what [IMG]
So, what's on my mind right now is: backswing timing with footwork.

I know that when you're doing a pivot around your backhand side to hit a forehand, you want to more or less start the backswing immediately and somewhere when the ball hits the table and your rear leg is well on the ground, you should be more or less at max backswing. This makes sense to me when I need to do it.

What about footwork towards the forehand side? Does the backswing begin more or less when the legs start moving, or is it slightly later? Is your backswing ready as soon as you're planted on the ground, with one leg or both? How about going in for a forehand?

I've heard that you want to have your backswing done more or less when the ball hits your side. Is this usually applicable?


I know I could just freeze-frame pro games to see the ideal timings, but I'm more concerned about general guidelines for this.
 
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I remember when an amateur friend of mine, who likes to review CNT videotape with his friends, came along with me to ask a high level coach friend of mine a question. The amateur friend's question was simple - he and his friends had found ways of looking at videotape and developing high level technique. However, they were having issues applying said high level technique in their matches. I had told my amateur friend a long time ago that there is nothing like high level technique that stands apart from the ability to read the ball and that if you cannot read the ball, you need technique that is adequate to the degree of uncertainty in your ball read ( more spin, less power) but that with practice against that quality of ball, your technique will become adequate to it. My friend said that okay but he wanted to hear different views on the subject. To cut a long story short, my high level coach friend gave my amateur friend a similar answer but just threw in more high level stories to support his position.

One of the interesting observations that my high level friend made was that my amateur friend seemed to be a very intellectual guy. He felt that my amateur friend may have fallen into the trap of trying to figure out or intellectualize table tennis. There's just to much about table tennis that you can't figure out without playing it at a level adequate to understand what is going on, and it is often hard/impossible to separate what was "figured out" from the practical execution of the stroke (you can't tell someone else to just do what you did and have them get the same result). It's the reason why it is often easier to get kids to play a higher level than adults once discipline issues are solved - the kids aren't trying to write a TT textbook like the adults are.?
 
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