My original pendulum serve developement

Siva Schopenhauer · Jun 15, 2016

hi guys, back again with a new serve with a different whip motion when I played a match against a top level player in a match. This serve was incredibly effective that he mistook it as reverse pendulum serve each time. After some suggestions from Carl, I thought of doing a video on my own serves. This is the first in installment. I believe a lot of work is yet to be done on this serve. Feedbacks would be of great help

Archosaurus · Jun 15, 2016

Based on the contact, I'd be expecting sidespin or backspin.

Great serves, probably the best you've showed to now. How exactly do you achieve this extent of topspin with the motion?

Boogar · Jun 15, 2016

I like the deception on this! However i think this serve would be much more effective played short. Have you tried this as well?

Cornel · Jun 15, 2016

Siva, that is definitely some great serves, I like very much the smoothness and the speed of your arm movement. Because of this speed you can't be sure for 100% what kind of serve you have made, so maybe it is really worth adding to this movement a reverse pendulum serve?

Siva Schopenhauer · Jun 15, 2016

Boogar said:
I like the deception on this! However i think this serve would be much more effective played short. Have you tried this as well?

Thanks! I tried the short serve. But, my arm movement can't be that fast enough to hide the serve as reverse pendulum. I have some footage. I ll soon add it within this thread. You could provide me feedback on whether the deception is effective or not.

Siva Schopenhauer · Jun 15, 2016

Archosaurus said:
Based on the contact, I'd be expecting sidespin or backspin.

Great serves, probably the best you've showed to now. How exactly do you achieve this extent of topspin with the motion?

Thanks! This actually stems from my experience of trying to serve like waldner. The main idea is to keep the entire arm from shoulder very loose. so, at the point of contact, I hook the lower part of the ball with the lower end of the racket and then change the movement to reverse pendulum.

Siva Schopenhauer · Jun 15, 2016

Cornel said:
Siva, that is definitely some great serves, I like very much the smoothness and the speed of your arm movement. Because of this speed you can't be sure for 100% what kind of serve you have made, so maybe it is really worth adding to this movement a reverse pendulum serve?

Thanks! Yeah, without reverse pendulum IMO it is not that effective as the opponent could adjust easily after few receives. I kind of working on it. But, the problem was I couldn't keep it low and the contact quality was much poor.

UpSideDownCarl · Jun 16, 2016

Archosaurus said:
Based on the contact, I'd be expecting sidespin or backspin.

@Archo: It looks like you need to get the TTEdge App and join TTEdge and work on the Receiver's Edge series for seeing his contact and how he is getting topspin.

@Siva: nice deceptive followthrough. Good serves. You probably could get them lower and you probably could get the long ones closer to the white line. But that does not change the fact that they are nice serves.

Official ?iva (god of destruction) serves. [emoji2]

But, I do think it is true, a good player will see the actual contact and also that the sidespin is curving towards the BH. But mixing this with reverse will give that moment's hesitation to the read.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Siva Schopenhauer · Jun 16, 2016

Thanks Carl! I am still struggling to get the balls to base line. I actually did a serve practice session tonight. I would come back with a video where you could provide me some suggestions. The difficulty was especially adjusting the momentum of the ball. If I contact too much, the ball crosses the base line without the second pitch.

Yeah, probably higher rated players could get used to it after first few receives. In one video Ovtcharov mentioned that he would concentrate on the logo of the ball to identify the spin against extremely dextrouse players. I am like wow. I was not able to do such things. Probably immersing oneself in sport could achieve such feats.

With regard to height, I found out that some serves of mine are much higher than other variations. Basically, posture, toss, body motion everything plays an important role before the contact height. In this variation, it is difficult for me to keep it low unless I'm thinking about height of the ball while serving. Deliberate practice and lot of tweaking should help. But, it seems a long way as for as now.

Der_Echte · Jun 16, 2016

Double S,

While developing the serve, I don't think the issues others bring up are so major.

The important points of an effective serve are to serve what you what, make it look like something else, and be ready for the return. Having a similar motion, loose muscles, a good whip, a fluid swing, a natural looking fake follow through are big time important. EDIT: Of course the serve must be such it doesn't get attacked (or low percentage if it does) and gives you a chance to do an attack or otherwise control the rally.

You are NAILING those important factors. This will allow you to work on alternate placements and spins, since you have the foundation.

That is way more important than working on depth/height first. You "Get It" for sure. Good stuff. Like you said, more reps will get you a lower clearance and better depth/break control.

Siva Schopenhauer · Jun 16, 2016

Der_Echte said:
Double S,

While developing the serve, I don't think the issues others bring up are so major.

The important points of an effective serve are to serve what you what, make it look like something else, and be ready for the return. Having a similar motion, loose muscles, a good whip, a fluid swing, a natural looking fake follow through are big time important. EDIT: Of course the serve must be such it doesn't get attacked (or low percentage if it does) and gives you a chance to do an attack or otherwise control the rally.

You are NAILING those important factors. This will allow you to work on alternate placements and spins, since you have the foundation.

That is way more important than working on depth/height first. You "Get It" for sure. Good stuff. Like you said, more reps will get you a lower clearance and better depth/break control.

Thanks for the encouragement. I played a match after a long while. Got flip killed few times. But other than that, for the most part the serves were effective. My other parts of the game are incredibly weak compared to the serves. But, I usually get away with third ball finishes. I am looking for some ways to work on height and positioning. Is there a established method or strategies to work on?

Archosaurus · Jun 16, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
@Archo: It looks like you need to get the TTEdge App and join TTEdge and work on the Receiver's Edge series for seeing his contact and how he is getting topspin.

@Siva: nice deceptive followthrough. Good serves. You probably could get them lower and you probably could get the long ones closer to the white line. But that does not change the fact that they are nice serves.

Official ?iva (god of destruction) serves. [emoji2]

But, I do think it is true, a good player will see the actual contact and also that the sidespin is curving towards the BH. But mixing this with reverse will give that moment's hesitation to the read.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

That's the thing: the sidespin is curving towards the BH. I know what he's doing, and I can see it just barely when the racket "stops" there, but it's definitely not obvious. I don't think I'd read it in a game unless I've seen it before in the session.

I'm several levels below Siva in terms of serves, so I would lose just purely based on them anyway, so me being able to perfectly read or not read his serves isn't a huge problem, I'd think. I'm more interested in how exactly he's getting so much spin with basically under 2cm of upwards movement.

NextLevel · Jun 16, 2016

It's almost like no one here has heard of the snake serve... your version is impressive to me, Siva. I am going to share it with Brett.

RajaLoopah · Jun 16, 2016

Archosaurus said:
That's the thing: the sidespin is curving towards the BH. I know what he's doing, and I can see it just barely when the racket "stops" there, but it's definitely not obvious. I don't think I'd read it in a game unless I've seen it before in the session.

I'm several levels below Siva in terms of serves, so I would lose just purely based on them anyway, so me being able to perfectly read or not read his serves isn't a huge problem, I'd think. I'm more interested in how exactly he's getting so much spin with basically under 2cm of upwards movement.

look at his wrist

Siva Schopenhauer · Jun 16, 2016

NextLevel said:
It's almost like no one here has heard of the snake serve... your version is impressive to me, Siva. I am going to share it with Brett.

Thanks Next level

Boogar · Jun 16, 2016

Cool video

I had almost forgotten about this one. Going to record some snake serves as well

Siva Schopenhauer · Jun 16, 2016

Boogar said:
Cool video I had almost forgotten about this one. Going to record some snake serves as well

Hi, I actually forgot that rule about serving not froming fingers. DIdn't know that was such a big deal. Neverthless, thanks for clarifying it.

Boogar · Jun 16, 2016

Siva Schopenhauer said:
Hi, I actually forgot that rule about serving not froming fingers. DIdn't know that was such a big deal. Neverthless, thanks for clarifying it.

I wouldnt say its such a big deal. I myself forget about it all the time, especially when training serves ( doing them one after another without pause)

My thought process behind this is as follows: If your opponent does an incorrect serve, you can only call him out on that if your serve is correct. So i try to do correct serves in matches.

Siva Schopenhauer · Jun 16, 2016

Completely in agreement.

UpSideDownCarl · Jun 16, 2016

NextLevel said:
It's almost like no one here has heard of the snake serve... your version is impressive to me, Siva. I am going to share it with Brett.

I almost posted this video with the statement: Brett would be proud of you. [emoji2]

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

My original pendulum serve developement

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