Is over celebrating a problem in table tennis?

Since Harimoto seems to want to sound just like Bernadette Szocs*, he needs to also perfect her "mean girl" way of staring at the opponent. If he needs help he can also examine pictures of Posh Spice (Victoria Beckham) and practice staring into the mirror until he gets it just right.



* You don't to be like Bernadette Szocs.

The thing here is, some players have class and some don't. At some point this kid will watch video of himself and be embarrassed because the way he shouts really doesn't make him look good. And it definitely does sound awful.

So, I am not going to say I like the kids who cho at every point regardless of how cheap. One thing I don't like about Cho to begin with, is that to me, it doesn't seem like anything more than just a meaningless shout.

I get what Baal and NextLevel are saying about the difference between celebrating every point regardless of how cheap and a celebration that is for something meaningful. I think that has to do with whether a player has class or not.

And for a kid who is not quite 13 years old, it is possible that every single point won seems like a pretty big thing from his perspective.

And I am going to keep to my stance that, because when you come across a player who has class, and they celebrate and it inspires you, I am not going to judge the celebrations that are more on the annoying side.

All we can hope is that a kid like Harimoto grows up, becomes more creative in his celebrations and gets some class in the process. I know, perhaps you can't learn the kind of humility with which a guy like Ma Long is naturally endowed. But we can hope for maturity without coercing kids to repress their expressiveness.

Well, I personally hope that table tennis players in general get more personalized and creative with their celebrations. Because, frankly, cho is boring and, at least to me, it is devoid of meaning.

So, I would like to see table tennis players get more creative and interesting with their celebrations. But I still don't want to quash the instinct and desire to celebrate because, the hope is, as a player matures and succeeds, they develop more dignity and class.

If something really was disruptive it would be easy to see.

Like this stuff in this video:


It is pushing the edge of acceptable. It is definitely not classy stuff that Leonard is doing to Duran. But, it is hard not to see that these are two great fighters and the stuff Leonard is doing, Duran can't handle it.

Do I like that stuff? Nope. Not really. Even though it is borderline, I don't think you can make rules against it. And if Duran was up to the task, Leonard would have gotten his head handed to him for those antics. Although I don't think Leonard was classy, a lot of his antics, he got them from Muhammed Ali, who I do think had class and dignity to his antics.

So I just wouldn't want to quash the creative instincts of a player who is celebrating from the heart because some other player hadn't yet cultivated dignity and class.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

The key in this video, if you watch from around 5 min on, once Ali really has Ellis hurt, he lets up because he doesn't want to REALLY hurt him. You can see through the whole fight, Ali is clowning a bit, but, he doesn't rub it in in the ring.



Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Baal's worst nightmare .... may be worse than Conjuring2

I tried to subject myself to a full game of Szocs.

I just couldn't. It's impossible.

Harimoto is just a kid. It's good that he doesn't seem to care what the audience or other players think to the point that he'd stop most of his celebration, and he is just expressing himself, but he's also making a fool of himself while disrespecting everyone involved.

It'd do him good to consider it a bit: but right now he probably has his hands full with just surviving in the pro tour world. I don't think he's matured enough to be able to handle many complicated matters at once, so let's give him a break for a year or two.

Now, Szocs... I don't know what to say. It's striking every time. Perhaps one of the most unappealing things I've come across.

Or the Bad Posh?

Celebrating is part of each sport, part of each sport's culture. For me the only issue is whether the celebration is provocative and insulting. If it is, then the umpires/referees are authorized to award penalties (cards in table tennis). So, annoying or not, it doesn't matter and it's not a problem as long as it's not insulting. I myself am a very quiet player and I get annoyed sometimes, but I like better people expressing than depressing themselves.
As for Harimoto, he's just a 12-year old kid, me can't expect him to celebrate and act classy like Waldner. After all, his achievments are really major considering his age. How can he be calm? Kids can't be calm, it's like the earth spinning the other way around. He will grow up, get more mature and especially when he starts thinking about girls, press and his public figure, his attitude will probably be more calm. The problem with Harimoto is that perhaps he's under a much greater pressure than he should be in that age and maybe he's letting the steam out during the games.

It is more likely his training. I have heard some Asian coaches fine or chastise star players for not choing.

NextLevel said:

It is more likely his training. I have heard some Asian coaches fine or chastise star players for not choing.

Click to expand...

Me too, with a coach no longer here. Always made me want to ask him how WLQ or KLH or Ma Long ever won a match. Or Waldner or Persson.

Some of this is intrinsic personality of course. Connors was who he was and Borg was who he was, and they were very different. McEnroe and Sampras are different. But trying to teach a kid to be -------- Bernadette Szocs ------------------..........

NextLevel said:

It is more likely his training. I have heard some Asian coaches fine or chastise star players for not choing.

Click to expand...

Agree, this looks to have been trained into him intentionally. It's too premeditated and constant.

Of course everyone celebrates in difference ways. We all pull off a killer shot from time to time - hard not to be happy with that. An unexpected win against a better player might result in something unusual happening - shorts down, pants out, etc. But this isn't celebration, or youthful exuberance. It's the same 4 shouts, in the same pattern, after almost every point won regardless of his own performance. This isn't celebration, it's methodical and intentional. I don't know why he does it - could be to annoy the opponent, could be a coping mechanism (he's young, and the situation is stressful).

As much as I find it annoying and wonder if it is off-putting to the audience, I didn't see how the umps could get involved. Until the Kallberg match that is. He's adding new, one-off shouts while Kallberg is preparing to toss the ball at the table. That should be stopped, 100%. Total lack of respect, whatever the intent. If an opponent did that to me when I'm preparing to serve I'd walk away from the table, make him wait, and then return and start my sequence again. When you return to the table to serve or receive, shut your mouth.

With my limited TT field experience, I would say I have never choed after winning a point. Cos, I am focussed about the next point. It doesnt concern me if my opponenet choed or celebrated they winning a nice point.

But, in professional play, I see many players celebrating on unforced errors of the opponent. It doesn't seem right at all. I have never seen such things in other ball sports. (Again, correct me If I am wrong)

It is general unwritten norm that one celebrates one's skill or achievment. How in the world does that apply for opponent making a unforced error?

As Carl said, some are classy and others are not. Ovtcharov celebrates unforced errors. If I ever had an opportunity to meet him, this would be my first question.

Regarding the kid, it is probably some Asian coaches training kids to release the emotions built within a point and get read for the next point.

I am planning to give it a try next time to celebrate point by point. I wil share how it does feel.

AndySmith said:

Agree, this looks to have been trained into him intentionally. It's too premeditated and constant.

Of course everyone celebrates in difference ways. We all pull off a killer shot from time to time - hard not to be happy with that. An unexpected win against a better player might result in something unusual happening - shorts down, pants out, etc. But this isn't celebration, or youthful exuberance. It's the same 4 shouts, in the same pattern, after almost every point won regardless of his own performance. This isn't celebration, it's methodical and intentional. I don't know why he does it - could be to annoy the opponent, could be a coping mechanism (he's young, and the situation is stressful).

As much as I find it annoying and wonder if it is off-putting to the audience, I didn't see how the umps could get involved. Until the Kallberg match that is. He's adding new, one-off shouts while Kallberg is preparing to toss the ball at the table. That should be stopped, 100%. Total lack of respect, whatever the intent. If an opponent did that to me when I'm preparing to serve I'd walk away from the table, make him wait, and then return and start my sequence again. When you return to the table to serve or receive, shut your mouth.

Click to expand...

Great post.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Sharing my personal experience. I did meet an opponent of similar character. He would cho constantly, like in tune,,, choee, cho.. Every point he had, mind well. It irritated me, and I couldn't concentrate. I kept thinking of winning the point early, instead of being in the game. Eventually, it distracted me quite much. I must say his level was better than mine, but constant loud celebration? If I had a knife around, I would have stabbed him, that was sure.
But when he is not playing, the guy is cool and calm. I don't know why he got super excited. I believe either he was taught that way, or he imbibed, probably watching similar players like Szocs or Harimoto.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

Siva Schopenhauer said:

With my limited TT field experience, I would say I have never choed after winning a point. Cos, I am focussed about the next point. It doesnt concern me if my opponenet choed or celebrated they winning a nice point.

But, in professional play, I see many players celebrating on unforced errors of the opponent. It doesn't seem right at all. I have never seen such things in other ball sports. (Again, correct me If I am wrong)

It is general unwritten norm that one celebrates one's skill or achievment. How in the world does that apply for opponent making a unforced error?

As Carl said, some are classy and others are not. Ovtcharov celebrates unforced errors. If I ever had an opportunity to meet him, this would be my first question.

Regarding the kid, it is probably some Asian coaches training kids to release the emotions built within a point and get read for the next point.

I am planning to give it a try next time to celebrate point by point. I wil share how it does feel.

Click to expand...

What is an unforced error in a game as tight and mentally demanding as table tennis?

I get the gist of what you are saying but when you win a significant point, you are likely going to celebrate, whether the opponent served into the edge of his side or you looped the ball with immaculate conception and precision.

Awaiting the rule change, "Only 4 victory shouts to be used each set"
but if they want to be very tricky "only victory shouts in own language"
Would not be surprising. xD

NextLevel said:

What is an unforced error in a game as tight and mentally demanding as table tennis?

I get the gist of what you are saying but when you win a significant point, you are likely going to celebrate, whether the opponent served into the edge of his side or you looped the ball with immaculate conception and precision.

Click to expand...

Yeah, when the game gets intense, it is understandable. But, celebrating on opponents' error is not my cup of tea. Hey, but I don't set the rules of celebrations right, so it is pretty subjective.

Generally, celebrating on such things is bad example of sportmanship. In top level, winning precedes sportsmanship in many cases.

Players like Boll, Federer, Sachin are good examples of sportsmanship being on the top of game.

Siva Schopenhauer said:

Yeah, when the game gets intense, it is understandable. But, celebrating on opponents' error is not my cup of tea. Hey, but I don't set the rules of celebrations right, so it is pretty subjective.

Generally, celebrating on such things is bad example of sportmanship. In top level, winning precedes sportsmanship in many cases.

Players like Boll, Federer, Sachin are good examples of sportsmanship being on the top of game.

Click to expand...

No one celebrates those *things* - they are celebrating their winning the point.

NextLevel said:

No one celebrates those *things* - they are celebrating their winning the point.

Click to expand...

Yeah, the argument seems like philosphical argument. But, the point is won on the error. So, celebrating the winning by isolating the event sounds dubious to me.