How's my technique?

NextLevel · Jul 1, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
Here, I explained the same thing differently for Siva S:

This is a mistake made by many players who don't have a good coach and are trying to teach themselves how to play. The fundamentals of a player like Ma Long were phenomenal before he started playing around with extending the stroke. You need to have the basics way before you start doing that.

If you want to copy Ma Long's form you want to copy the strokes he does when he is warming up. The counterhitting stroke and the looping stroke he does in warming up for a match are more what you would want to emulate until your strokes are much better.

I hope that makes sense.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

IMO, even those warm up strokes are relatively advanced and there are better players for amateurs to emulate but to each his own. Ma Long has multiple forehand swings adapted to a lot of balls and his shot selection is supported by his experience and training (physical) and footwork. Its just a different animal entirely. Watch a long point played by Ma Long and see how many different types of forehand swings you can identify. Few players take that approach even at that level.

UpSideDownCarl · Jul 1, 2016

NextLevel said:
IMO, even those warm up strokes are relatively advanced and there are better players for amateurs to emulate but to each his own. Ma Long has multiple forehand swings adapted to a lot of balls and his shot selection is supported by his experience and training (physical) and footwork. Its just a different animal entirely. Watch a long point played by Ma Long and see how many different types of forehand swings you can identify. Few players take that approach even at that level.

Yep. Agreed. But someone who is set on emulating Ma Long, he might as well analyze and copy something that will at least help. But he won't be able to copy those anyway. The fluidity is crazy.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Archosaurus · Jul 1, 2016

I find it funny how people will reference that Ma Long does this or Ma Long does that and thus I can do ANYTHING with my form, when he's not doing what they think he's doing: he's doing an entirely different stroke with entirely different spin and placement.

You know, coming across the body all the way, finishing with the bat parallel to the ground to the left of his left shoulder, finishing with the bat perpendicular to the ground behind his head etc.

Ma Long does it in very specific circumstances, so I can do it always, right? Right?

NextLevel · Jul 1, 2016

Archosaurus said:
I find it funny how people will reference that Ma Long does this or Ma Long does that and thus I can do ANYTHING with my form, when he's not doing what they think he's doing: he's doing an entirely different stroke with entirely different spin and placement.

You know, coming across the body all the way, finishing with the bat parallel to the ground to the left of his left shoulder, finishing with the bat perpendicular to the ground behind his head etc.

Ma Long does it in very specific circumstances, so I can do it always, right? Right?

Pot calling the kettle black,,,

But seriously, the nuanced differences in the top CNT strokes are part of what makes them so appealing to watch, but are also part of what leads many people astray in wanting to play like them and copy their techniques. If you have good coaching and train a lot, by all means, feel free to copy the vast array of strokes that Ma Long has at his disposal as they are often adapted to optimize themselves to the incoming ball or particular situation. Many of them are high risk for mere mortals without his athleticism and footwork and of course ball reading abilities. Some people think for example of the CNT technique as a straight arm technique, but the straight arm is largely used only when the ball is easy or more whip is required. What is more common is for them to rotate their upper body and shoulder more powerfully through the point of contact for a drive orientation. Compare these two videos and ask yourself whose style is easier to replicate (note, this is not not a counterlooping stroke):

Archosaurus · Jul 1, 2016

NL, you seem to think people can't change. I'm long since over my "copying the pros" days.

Hell, after I just started focusing on developing my OWN stroke and not a cheap imitation of someone else's, my mechanics got infinitely better and the stroke is a better ZJK imitation than I could have made it by copying him.

It's short because I'm focusing on not using the shoulder, the wrist and forearm finally move freely and make a circular motion along the swing plane and I'm not slapping into the side/back of the ball. I don't think I'd have figured these out by looking at someone else's form and trying to copy it.

NextLevel · Jul 1, 2016

Archosaurus said:
NL, you seem to think people can't change. I'm long since over my "copying the pros" days.

Hell, after I just started focusing on developing my OWN stroke and not a cheap imitation of someone else's, my mechanics got infinitely better and the stroke is a better ZJK imitation than I could have made it by copying him.

It's short because I'm focusing on not using the shoulder, the wrist and forearm finally move freely and make a circular motion along the swing plane and I'm not slapping into the side/back of the ball. I don't think I'd have figured these out by looking at someone else's form and trying to copy it.

To get proper feedback, you have to share some videotape.

Boogar · Jul 1, 2016

We want videos!

karan705 · Jul 1, 2016

I see all of your points. I will try to work on the more shorter and compact stroke but when you have more time is a bigger more powerful stroke worth it? And the video is back up again.

karan705 · Jul 1, 2016

I'll try to upload more right now.

NextLevel · Jul 1, 2016

karan705 said:
I see all of your points. I will try to work on the more shorter and compact stroke but when you have more time is a bigger more powerful stroke worth it? And the video is back up again.

Yes, it is, but there are nuances that you need to be aware of and for most people, it is better to have a stroke that you can adapt to multiple balls, including tricky ones, than to have a stroke that you can only use when the ball is easy (which is what most lower rated players already have by accident, even if the stroke is or is not powerful). The more versatile stroke will evolve and grow with experience.

If you watch any top pros, including Timo Bolll and Jun Mizutani, you will see slightly larger backswings and straighter arms when powering through easy balls. It may not be Ma Long level, but the subtleties are there. Developing the Ma Long stroke places *some* pressure on your anticipation and shot selection. I tend to overuse my version of it. But there is a specific technique for that stroke. And it should not be your base forehand stroke.

karan705 · Jul 1, 2016

I guess you guys need more videos to get a better understanding of how I play.

UpSideDownCarl · Jul 1, 2016

Well, I have a feeling Boogar was saying he wants more footage of Archo. Regardless, more footage certainly can't hurt. But, I think there are key issues visible in the footage you put up. The first opponent, the practice partner that kukamonga said looks like NextLevel--trust me, he doesn't--he is hitting you high easy balls. He is not swinging, he is just putting back the ball. And the timing of your hips is completely off.

I do get it. It feels good to take big swings. You could try tennis. That would almost definitely help you get your hips timed to your contact. Because those shots won't go anywhere in tennis without your hips actually helping you. And it is okay to swing big like that in Tennis.

But, when you start timing the hips better, and you get your basic stroke solid, (your stroke is way too shallow or it would not finish below your shoulder and the thing is, your racket is never higher than your finishing height) you may start feeling when it is okay to take a bigger stroke.

But the real art of blasting the ball is timing and your giant swing is definitely not well timed or it would produce much faster shots.

Still, if you just want to play that way because it is fun, have fun.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Archosaurus · Jul 1, 2016

NextLevel said:
To get proper feedback, you have to share some videotape.

True, true. It'll be worse during a game and all the faults will come out. The only table I can hit at is unavailable and I am going insane as of recent times. We'll have to get back to it in a month and a half. It's gotten so bad that I shadow strokes at any moment that I can be in front of a full body mirror.

Boogar, soon.

karan, swinging big might feel fun, but you're gonna start re-evaluating your technique when people start countering your "big shots" right past you. I think your shoulder might also thank you for trying to adapt to a more hip and forearm based stroke.

Boogar · Jul 1, 2016

karan said:
Indeed. I also use too much shoulder on my swing hence having too big of a swing. Recently my shoulder started to hurt after long sessions, this was a wakeup call for me.

UpSideDownCarl · Jul 1, 2016

Archosaurus said:
True, true. It'll be worse during a game and all the faults will come out. The only table I can hit at is unavailable and I am going insane as of recent times. We'll have to get back to it in a month and a half. It's gotten so bad that I shadow strokes at any moment that I can be in front of a full body mirror.

Archosaurus said:
Give us the mistakes and then we'll talk.

Archo, this here gives good insight into your biggest problem on the forum. You want to post footage that makes you look good. Even the stuff that you may think looks good, it won't really. So, accept that the best thing people here could see is footage that shows what you need to work on. Why did you tell karan705 that he should post footage that shows his faults. But you then say that statement above? What is that about? Why do you want karan705 to post stuff that shows where he is at and not show the stuff yourself.

Go look at the footage of Der and NL pounding me. They are fun to watch. But I didn't post footage of the guys I did beat that day. The way I see things, if you want to talk the way you do on the forum, you might as well post footage that lets people see what you actually need to work on.

But, again, it is true, if you posted footage that puts you in the best light possible, it still would show lots of things you need to work on.

Archosaurus · Jul 1, 2016

Carl, what?

I said that I SHOULD post footage BECAUSE it will show the faults of my technique in a match environment.

karan705 · Jul 2, 2016

"But the real art of blasting the ball is timing and your giant swing is definitely not well timed or it would produce much faster shots.", I see what I have to improve on and I'll have fun by challenging myself to change. Thank you everyone for your responses it really helped.

ttmonster · Jul 2, 2016

Can somebody rename this thread into "Confessions of a dangerous mind "

Archosaurus · Jul 2, 2016

ttmonster said:
Can somebody rename this thread into "Confessions of a dangerous mind "

Hey, my posts aren't excerpts from some bad post-modernistic novel.

UpSideDownCarl · Jul 2, 2016

Archosaurus said:
Carl, what?

I said that I SHOULD post footage BECAUSE it will show the faults of my technique in a match environment.

Okay. That is good then. If you have that attitude, it will help you. Now get the footage. I am confident it won't take a month and a half.

How's my technique?

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