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  1. Topspinner is offline
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    #1

    Table tennis and strength training

    Beside tt I also want to train with weights in the fitness center. I don't want to get slower how can I prevent this?

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    #2
    Try doing some fitness training or cross fit

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    #3
    Just do it, you won't get slower just because you start with weight training now. If anything, the fitness training will improve your table tennis opportunities.

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    #4
    Low to moderate weight with high reps slows you down less than high weight does.

    Things like squats and leg presses will help your game. Using dumbbells with small or moderate weight should not affect things too much. Heavy weight with low reps, like bench pressing a weight that is heavy enough that you fail at 5 or 6 reps will slow you down. But, that is still good for you.


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    #5
    Carl is right, for table tennis you want to work in rep ranges between 10-12 reps for compound movements such as bench press, squatting etc.. As this will create a good base level strength and build a bit of muscle mass without slowing you down. If you fail a weight before the 8th rep definitely decrease the weight. Have 2-3 minutes between sets. For cardio high intensity interval training is probably the best way to go as this replicates a table tennis match. No need to run for hours non stop as this is a different type of cardio and won't transfer as well to table tennis. Get a bit of core/abdominal work in as well if you can. Things like sit ups and planks will help with this.

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  6. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #6

    Table tennis and strenght training

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Jeffcott
    Carl is right, for table tennis you want to work in rep ranges between 10-12 reps for compound movements such as bench press, squatting etc.. As this will create a good base level strength and build a bit of muscle mass without slowing you down. If you fail a weight before the 8th rep definitely decrease the weight. Have 2-3 minutes between sets. For cardio high intensity interval training is probably the best way to go as this replicates a table tennis match. No need to run for hours non stop as this is a different type of cardio and won't transfer as well to table tennis. Get a bit of core/abdominal work in as well if you can. Things like sit ups and planks will help with this.
    This is top quality info. And to add to it:

    Side plank work strengthens the outer hip and sides of the body/abdomen in a way that directly impacts your looping power because it works the same muscles that really need to kick in for a loop.


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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 07-05-2016 at 09:47 PM.
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    #7
    I've found isometrics, like holding onto a moderately heavy barbell at waist level or holding a pull up with added weight to be useful. For all I know it's placebo effect when it comes to strokes, but it should help for endurance at least. I think penholders would like anything relating to grip strength.

    I also like medium weight for 10 reps with as explosive a rep as you can and a slow return. Rows are pretty good for this. Just beware that it will build some mass: like people don't need stronger and bigger shoulders anyway with all the chest bias tightness.

    These shouldn't cause considerably muscle mass gain like you get from doing hyperthropy exercises ie: 6 - 8 reps. I think you'd need to work pretty hard with a mass building routine to get to the point where you're actually just adding bulk.

    Muscle mass is useful to a point, and you do need some to be able to swing hard. Apparently guys like Ma Long, Wang Liqin and Dima have huge arms in person, and I don't doubt it.

    I know some people who gain absolutely huge mass from some leg exercises done in some ways, so they can't do those because they'll seriously bulk up for no reason. Quirks like that are up to you to find out about, but you'll probably only run into them if you're really advanced and lifting quite heavy weight.

    @UpSideDownCarl

    I've made it a habit to begin and end all my workouts with at least a 1 min plank no matter what, and it's added up over the year or so.

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    #8
    Great advice above, but I think incorporating some big weight / low rep work as well. Big weights for low reps will increase your speed on power movements. You're going to put on more mass working out in the 8-12 range than in the 4-6 range. But don't jump into any weightlifting routine where you're failing at 5-6 reps... injury waiting to happen. Start off aiming for 8-12 reps and work your way down. Go hard on the concentric motion and don't concentrate on the eccentric motion. In other words, for a bench press for example, go hard on the way up and on the way down just control it but do not go slow on the way down. The eccentric motion is just for hypertrophy (getting bigger) and that's not what you want. You want to train your nervous system to put more input to the muscles, and that means big weight moving fast. Well, as fast as big weight can move. If you're pushing full force, you're forcing your brain to put more neural input to the muscle, and this is what you need for quick motions. For table tennis, I'd venture to say legs and abs (especially obliques) will be your bread and butter.

    Muscle endurance is going to play a big factor since tournaments can go on for a long time, and even slight muscle fatigue will really affect your game after an hour or so. That's where side planks and the like come in.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtcollins
    Great advice above, but I think incorporating some big weight / low rep work as well. Big weights for low reps will increase your speed on power movements. You're going to put on more mass working out in the 8-12 range than in the 4-6 range. But don't jump into any weightlifting routine where you're failing at 5-6 reps... injury waiting to happen. Start off aiming for 8-12 reps and work your way down. Go hard on the concentric motion and don't concentrate on the eccentric motion. In other words, for a bench press for example, go hard on the way up and on the way down just control it but do not go slow on the way down. The eccentric motion is just for hypertrophy (getting bigger) and that's not what you want. You want to train your nervous system to put more input to the muscles, and that means big weight moving fast. Well, as fast as big weight can move. If you're pushing full force, you're forcing your brain to put more neural input to the muscle, and this is what you need for quick motions. For table tennis, I'd venture to say legs and abs (especially obliques) will be your bread and butter.

    Muscle endurance is going to play a big factor since tournaments can go on for a long time, and even slight muscle fatigue will really affect your game after an hour or so. That's where side planks and the like come in.
    Oh yeah, about when I said to have a "slow return": don't hold it. Holding it is what causes most people to bulk up like crazy. Just, slower. Don't drop the weight. It's bad form and it won't help you either because gravity is on your side.

    I was going to advise doing exercises in the 4 - 6 range, and even 1 rep max as fast as you can, but I'm actually not sure myself if those will build muscle mass excessively. I'm a little man by nature and still a little man after lifting for as long as I can remember, so I doubt it.

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    #10
    You're right about not just dropping the weight, Arch. Always gotta keep form. I'd probably stay away from 1 rep max. 1 Rep max won't build muscle much at all, and is good for power, but I don't know if the risk is worth it. Even powerlifters only have a day or two of 1RMs every month or so.

    Thinking more about it, there's probably a lot you could do to make your strength training more tailored to TT. The big things you want are leg quickness and faster movement in the muscles involved in your swings. For legs, you'll want to incorporate quick movements like what you see football players do, for example. Those rope ladder thingies (not my area, to say the least) and other similar exercises. Anything that has your legs moving fast and with precision. Side to side line drills sound like something that would help a lot. For the swing motions, probably the best thing you can do is to "shadow play" in a mirror with a heavy racket. I think Drinkall mentioned that on this forum.

    Also, you'll want to think about food and supplements. In short, a multivitamin and fish oil are all most people need. After a workout, some form of protein is always a good idea. The protein shakes work well, but anything high in protein would work. And green (or white) tea, despite being very beneficial, simply makes life worth living :-)

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    #11
    idk my coach just told me pretty much to go jogging and do lots of squats and planking

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  12. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #12

    Table tennis and strength training

    If you are talking about crosstraining for TT, shadow training and ladder footwork drills are in the right ballpark. Loading the weight for the legs is fine. But heavy weight and lower reps is not what you want for the upper body.

    For something inspirational the stuff without the heavy weights from this video would be good for TT crosstraining:



    And, yes, I've posted this video many times before.

    But the reason you don't want to go heavy with your upper body is: Real training is more specific than most people realize. The strength you get from lifting heavier WILL NOT translate into power into the ball in a TT stroke. At least not heavy lifting with the upper body.

    Here is the reason. We have slow twitch muscles and fast twitch muscles. Using weights DOES NOT increase the strength of fast twitch muscles.

    The muscles used in the upper body in table tennis ARE FAST TWITCH muscles.

    The reason you can load weight with the legs is you need to stay low for long periods of time in table tennis and using a decent amount of weight for the legs will help that. And the footwork in real table tennis match play will not be very compromised by that kind of training.

    But, for the upper body, that would compromise your strokes.

    Another thing that would be useful for crosstraining for TT would be using boxing training: heavy bag, speed bag, double ended bag and a trainer with the target gloves having you do combinations and footwork. And that stuff can be pretty fun too.


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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 07-06-2016 at 03:01 AM.
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    #13
    Meso morph
    Ecto morph
    Endo morph
    Diffrent people diffrent races diffrent body structures so muscle development also differs we also look into diet. not every video we see is applicable for everyone and not everybody can cope with it.
    End goal for ultimate footwork is lean strong upper body strenght, bulk well developed muscles strong lower body strenght.

    Cardio endurance hmm circuit training can help you develop that faster
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    Last edited by Rajah*; 07-06-2016 at 05:10 AM.

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    #14
    Thx for all the info.

    So without getting slower I can train like this:

    Weights
    10 - 12 reps *3 and then few minutes rest before going to the next exercize ?
    Witch muscle groups are the most important to train for tt ?

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    #15
    Sit ups can help a lot. I think everything is above.

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    #16
    Carl is absolutely right that "gym strength" won't directly correlate with power in a table tennis swing. The muscles involved in a table tennis swing aren't the same ones as for a bench press. I still think higher weight and lower reps is where you want to be for legs, and upper body as well. 8-12 reps is what's typically called hypertrophy training, and it's what bodybuilders do to get big. Powerlifters do less reps, and they are way more explosive in their movements and twice as strong at half the body weight as bodybuliders.

    For muscles, I'd think primarily legs with some upper body work thrown in. Squats and deadlifts will be best, but also leg press (if you are not practiced at squats and deads yet), leg curl, and leg extensions. And calves. Lots and lots of calves (ie calf raises). Calves would be for endurance, so probably 20-25 reps to failure.If you're doing deads and squats, you won't need a lot of ab work, but planks and sit-up type exercises will help a lot. One thing I forgot to mention is wrist curles. If you're lifting heavy these won't matter but it's something to do at the end of a workout that will show benefits quickly. Here's a simple plan for example:

    Day 1 - Legs
    Squat (or leg press)
    Leg extension
    Leg curl
    Abductor/Adductor exercise (the ones where you either spread or close your legs on the machine)
    Calves
    Wrist

    Day 2 - Deads and back
    Deadlift (4-6 sets)
    bent over row or seated row
    lat pull down or pull ups
    some bicep exercise
    abs

    Day 3 - upper body
    bench press
    shoulder press
    side raises
    front raises
    some tricep exercise
    abs
    wrist curl

    Day 4
    Watch TV

    Rinse and Repeat

    If you're going 8-12 reps, you'll want to do your reps then wait 1-2 min, then do the 8-12 reps again. Do this for 3-4 sets then move on to the next exercise and rinse and repeat. If you're going 6-8 reps with higher weight, you'll need 3-4 min between sets. No matter what, you'll want to start your training at 8-12 reps and maybe go heaver after a couple months.

    Your big two exercises are squat and deadlift. You'll want to do more sets of these than anything else.

    Hope this is somewhat helpful.

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