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    1. Top | #21
      Baal is offline
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      NL answered it. ESN makes a in incredible variety of rubbers for many different brands. Many are similar but not identical. So the rubbers they make for Tibhar are not identical to the ones they mage for Donic, Andro. Joola, Xiom, etc. Still, for each brand they make something that is trying to attract players who really like Tenergy, which is still the gold standard for Euro or Japanese rubber. In fact, there are so many I can't see how its realistic to try them all. ESN hopes you will try every one and every variation. All of the recent ones I have hit with (mostly on other peoples blades) seem pretty good. Among these I personally think MXP is a little better than M1. But again, for a RPB its hard to say.

    2. Top | #22
      Cornel is offline
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      Another thing to consider about Bluefires is their durability. I haven't used Bluefires myself, but my brother has, and I have noticed also at other people in my club who use them that these rubbers wear off really quickly.

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      BeGo (07-21-2016)

    4. Top | #23
      Raylazyfo is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by anchorschmidt View Post
      As for the hype of rubbers being specially suited for the new ball, it's mostly just marketing imo. Even at the pro level, very few players have switched from what they were using earlier. If you are happy with your tenergy, then I would recommend that you continue to use it.
      i think youre right it is mostly marketing but some of the top chinese players have recently changed their backhand rubber from tenergy to hurricane

    5. Top | #24
      Airoc is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      In fact, there are so many I can't see how its realistic to try them all. ESN hopes you will try every one and every variation.
      Wouldn´t make much sense. If you try to substitute tenergy 05, nearly anything below 47.5 degree sponge hardness is out of the question, the exception being Evolution EL-S which is a great rubber at around 46 degrees.

      Of course you can also think about substituting tenergy 64 or 80 or whatever, but then you´d try a different range.

      In other words, to compete with tenergy 05 you´ll use Rasant Powergrip, Evolution MX-P/MX-S/EL-S, Bluefire M1 (turbo). No use in trying softer versions, or else you are not looking to replace tenergy equally but you´re looking for a rubber that plays more easily. Which is no bad thing as such, but not the same thing. And you wouldn´t even think of older generations such as Hexer, Baracuda or Genius, because if that would have worked no further evolution would have been necessary That said, on many levels the ultimate performance that t05 allows for isn´t even needed, so of course a Genius is a great rubber to play with.

      Like a friend says, when playing spin on spin the 13th ball will slip through on anything but t05. And he means the 13th ball in one rallye, not of the evening. But then he is in our national top 40 or so, and if that is his belief I will not insist on him trying Evolution and see him proved right when it matters. Then again, I hear no complaint from even better players about Evolution, so all is relative

    6. Top | #25
      NextLevel is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Airoc View Post
      Wouldn´t make much sense. If you try to substitute tenergy 05, nearly anything below 47.5 degree sponge hardness is out of the question, the exception being Evolution EL-S which is a great rubber at around 46 degrees.

      Of course you can also think about substituting tenergy 64 or 80 or whatever, but then you´d try a different range.

      In other words, to compete with tenergy 05 you´ll use Rasant Powergrip, Evolution MX-P/MX-S/EL-S, Bluefire M1 (turbo). No use in trying softer versions, or else you are not looking to replace tenergy equally but you´re looking for a rubber that plays more easily. Which is no bad thing as such, but not the same thing. And you wouldn´t even think of older generations such as Hexer, Baracuda or Genius, because if that would have worked no further evolution would have been necessary That said, on many levels the ultimate performance that t05 allows for isn´t even needed, so of course a Genius is a great rubber to play with.

      Like a friend says, when playing spin on spin the 13th ball will slip through on anything but t05. And he means the 13th ball in one rallye, not of the evening. But then he is in our national top 40 or so, and if that is his belief I will not insist on him trying Evolution and see him proved right when it matters. Then again, I hear no complaint from even better players about Evolution, so all is relative
      Rasant/Rasant Turbo is actually the original answer to T05, not Grip/Powergrip. And many Andro sponsored players still use regular Rasant/Turbo.

      There are also good players using other ESN rubbers - two that immediately come to mind are Simon Gauzy (Cornilleau) and Quadri Aruna (Joola). IMO, piggybacking on AndySmith, the issue is more about getting the better players to use the rubbers to give them credibility and Tibhar has made the most progress. IF you gave some of the pros using other rubbers the choice between Tenergy and their latest ESN rubber, some/many of them would use Tenergy. But it doesn't mean that they would play much better, they may just feel better about their play. The gap is not as large as before - Drinkhall deliberately went over to MX-P. The other thing is that many pros boost so some of the longevity concerns of booster effect are not an issue for them.


      Finally, when it comes to spin on spin, I don't think any rubber has the range of tolerance for error that Tenergy has and it is mostly a spring sponge thing. I find that with other hard rubbers, if I swing harder, I will usually get a spinnier ball than Tenergy (MX-S for example, or even Hurricane) at higher speeds, but the problem is that if I don't swing hard enough, then I lose the ball quality immediately. This is where Tenergy shines, as in those lazy moments when the acceleration is still relatively poor, one is often getting a ball from the spring sponge with all this undeserved quality. I don't think any other rubber quite has that yet.

      On the other hand, some people want to be in control of the spin variation they are putting on the ball and I think this is where Tenergy is not as interesting as other rubbers as if I play Hurricane or MX-S, I can do more spin killing flat strokes with them more reliably than Tenergy. I can also raise the spin and the speed with my own power more than I can with Tenergy 05. It's just the consistent quality of Tenergy 05 that is missing as I cannot sustain the output.
      Last edited by NextLevel; 07-22-2016 at 10:55 PM.
      Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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      Ardenhouse165 (07-23-2016)

    8. Top | #26
      braithey is offline
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      no better rubber than 05

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      jedimasterplk (07-22-2016)

    10. Top | #27
      bzing is offline
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      Mx-p tibhar evolution is the most over-hyped, overly estimated rubber I've ever come across. The factory-tuned effect on it disappears after just 1 week and after that becomes a flat hitting rubber with no ability to lift any underspin as it loses all its grip completely.
      Last edited by bzing; 07-22-2016 at 10:52 PM.

    11. Top | #28
      K.breng78 is offline
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      i prefer for you DHS hurricane 3 65 sponge 37 degree..very good spining..more better compare t energy..before this i used t energy 05 for Fb and after that Ventus spin n now i used H3-65 sponge 37 degree but more spining n very good

    12. Top | #29
      Mart11 is offline
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      Tenergy is the best rubber series and I could guess BTY has another option in the bag of technology if any company makes a breakthrough or smth. But is Tenergy that better compared how expensive is it? No or maybe - to the pro players. For mortals, the difference of 5-10% in playing features does not make sense for additional 40% in price...

    13. Top | #30
      Airoc is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Rasant/Rasant Turbo is actually the original answer to T05, not Grip/Powergrip. And many Andro sponsored players still use regular Rasant/Turbo.
      The answer they had then. Like Genius was Tibhar´s original answer then, now it is Evolution.

      And the regular Rasant may not be so regular after all, as there are different versions for pro players with 47.5 and even 50 degree sponge which may or may not have the same topsheet.

    14. Top | #31
      NextLevel is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Airoc View Post
      The answer they had then. Like Genius was Tibhar´s original answer then, now it is Evolution.

      And the regular Rasant may not be so regular after all, as there are different versions for pro players with 47.5 and even 50 degree sponge which may or may not have the same topsheet.
      You misunderstand me. I meant that Rasant belongs to the Evolution and Bluefire generation. 50 degree song usually means the Turbo version.

    15. Top | #32
      Airoc is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      You misunderstand me. I meant that Rasant belongs to the Evolution and Bluefire generation. 50 degree song usually means the Turbo version.
      You are of course right with the generation.

      The Turbo has a 47,5 degree sponge according to andro.

      And they produce both a 47,5 and a 50 degree version that simply says Rasant (019) on the topsheet, no sign of Turbo (021), and comes with the S10 selected sponge you cannot buy.
      Last edited by Airoc; 07-23-2016 at 09:00 PM.

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      NextLevel (07-23-2016)

    17. Top | #33
      Baal is offline
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      My point was that if one hasn't spent a lot of time following things, it is daunting to go into the massive ESN product line and know what is the latest thing that is closest to T05. The last few comments of this thread make it obvious.

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      NextLevel (07-27-2016)

    19. Top | #34
      laistrogian is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      My point was that if one hasn't spent a lot of time following things, it is daunting to go into the massive ESN product line and know what is the latest thing that is closest to T05. The last few comments of this thread make it obvious.
      No ESN rubber gives you a feel of the ball as well as tenergy either

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      Knuckle Ball (07-27-2016)

    21. Top | #35
      Knuckle Ball is offline
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      I have used Hexer HD, 1Q, 5Q and MX-P. I like all these rubbers, works very well on my FH and BH. I also love them because they are way cheaper than T05 and it gets the job done anyway.

      But once you have a spanking new T05 on your FH, confidence is off the roof and you feel like you can loop to the moon and back. Generating offense is soooo easy and you easily forget the cost of the rubber. And as you lovingly clean your rubber after play, you begin to justify the high cost by the durability and longer service life of your T05. And hey a single T05 can last longer than 2 MX-Ps. Yes it can be addictive he he

    22. Top | #36
      SiLenT_Tz is offline
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      I used different types of Tenergy on my Forehand nearly 2 years but I changed it beacause your service and receives are to bad to control with it... Then I decided to use chinese style rubbers. They are a lot harder and if you soft touch the ball the missing catapult effect is not letting your ball jump off your racket not controllable.
      On my backhand I still use tenergy 64.

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