Shoulder pain

achalwins94 · Jul 26, 2016

I tend to get shoulder pain after intense play. That has been a recurring thing after I have started using chinese rubbers(unboosted).
Would like advice if any kind of post game exercise, to mitigate the pain or any other kind of advice!

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NextLevel · Jul 26, 2016

achalwins94 said:
I tend to get shoulder pain after intense play. That has been a recurring thing after I have started using chinese rubbers(unboosted).
Would like advice if any kind of post game exercise, to mitigate the pain or any other kind of advice!

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

You are trying to compensate for the lack of catapult of the rubbers. Either you fix your technique or go back to European rubbers (more likely, both). You likely have to rest as well.

Inkognito · Jul 26, 2016

achalwins94 said:
I tend to get shoulder pain after intense play. That has been a recurring thing after I have started using chinese rubbers(unboosted).
Would like advice if any kind of post game exercise, to mitigate the pain or any other kind of advice!

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

Agree with NextLevel. I slaughtered my shoulder with chinese rubbers a year, broke it. 3-4 years rehab and still ended in surgery. To many players choose to play chinese rubbers even if they aren't fit enough. There should be a suitable euro replacement until you have built up your bodys strength.

Otherwise rest and do rehab for the shoulder. Small exercises to strenghten the whole shoulder..

songdavid98 · Jul 26, 2016

You guys do know that you shouldn't be using your upper arm that much right?

Even with Chinese rubbers, try to turn your body with your swing to gain the extra momentum you need to use those rubbers.

About the pain, is it the muscle or the joint? Or both?

As for the pain, you can remedy it with some rest (maybe a massage), but the best solution is to not let it happen in the first place. Improve your technique. You should be using so much shoulder that you injure yourself.

achalwins94 · Jul 26, 2016

Inkognito said:
Agree with NextLevel. I slaughtered my shoulder with chinese rubbers a year, broke it. 3-4 years rehab and still ended in surgery. To many players choose to play chinese rubbers even if they aren't fit enough. There should be a suitable euro replacement until you have built up your bodys strength.

Otherwise rest and do rehab for the shoulder. Small exercises to strenghten to whole shoulder..

Yeah, I train and do light weight lifting (gym). I do lift heavy weights, and I don't get pain, muscle soreness sometimes. But when I play intensive tt, next morning is when I get a light pain in shoulder, not much, but not totally ignorable. That is why I thought of posting my view, in order to know that is it normal after intense(3 hours) or maybe some other reason. If you know any post game stretching that has been very effective so that strain in shoulder can be avoided, that would be great.

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achalwins94 · Jul 26, 2016

songdavid98 said:
You guys do know that you shouldn't be using your upper arm that much right?

Even with Chinese rubbers, try to turn your body with your swing to gain the extra momentum you need to use those rubbers.

About the pain, is it the muscle or the joint? Or both?

As for the pain, you can remedy it with some rest (maybe a massage), but the best solution is to not let it happen in the first place. Improve your technique. You should be using so much shoulder that you injure yourself.

It's muscle pain.

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Siva Schopenhauer · Jul 26, 2016

achalwins94 said:
I tend to get shoulder pain after intense play. That has been a recurring thing after I have started using chinese rubbers(unboosted).
Would like advice if any kind of post game exercise, to mitigate the pain or any other kind of advice!

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

Achal, i just switched to 729 Super FX Rubbers. My previous European Mendo and Gewo compensated for a lot of inefficient body mechanics. But, with Chinese rubbers there is no getting away and I think one exerts naturally for more to compensate for the changes in the game play. So, I ****ed up my shoulder rotary joint, I have since then taking regular rest as there is no way turning rest around. Now, I am just working around those joints to gain some strength before putting the stress again on the same region. For our body type, this is understandable because different genetics offer wider range of body types. So, in short a lot of rest, recovery and then specific strength training for that region before fooling around

ejcool · Jul 26, 2016

Hi there !
I am having same kind of trouble , mostly from uncontrolled smashes- which are supposed to win a point with humiliating force - and it seems to be better if you do try a daily routine warm up in the morning , followed by a light weight -3 pounds- set of exercises just to rotate your shoulder as wide as possible trying to maintain control of your whole arm speedwise.
Best wishes

UpSideDownCarl · Jul 26, 2016

NextLevel has actually given the important info. David added to it.

If you are using your upper arm so much that your FH bothers your shoulder, you need to fix your technique.

If you are damaging your shoulder as a result of your FH technique, you need to fix your technique.

Using Euro rubbers with catapult will help you use the rubber more and the shoulder less. So that may be worth doing. But nothing can replace fixing the technique.

And if your FH technique is damaging your shoulder (which it is or you would not feel pain from playing) then no amount of stretches will help and no amount of rotator cuff muscle strengthening will help.

Those things will only help if you also fix the technique. I have played TT for 7 hours straight and it did not bother my shoulder. If 3 hours bothers your shoulder, you need to fix your FH technique.

As David said, in a FH, the upper arm should not move too much. It should be mostly weight transfer, core rotation, forearm snap and wrist from whip mechanics.

I can post a whole arsenal of photos for stretching your shoulder. I would also encourage you to do a search for exercises for strengthening your rotator cuff muscles. Because almost all adults would benefit from that and most shoulder conditions are helped by rotator cuff strengthening, even when that is not the underlying issue.

If you take ibuprofen because your head hurts, it might do something. But if you keep banging your head into a wall, your head will still hurt and over time it will hurt more and more.

The same is true for your shoulder. If you do stuff to make it feel better and not hurt as much, but continue to do the thing that is causing the trauma to your shoulder, over time it will become more serious in spite of efforts to alleviate the pain after you cause the trauma.

I hope you understand what I am saying and that this helps.

Without fixing the mechanics that are causing the problem, other things that are good for your shoulder will not be enough to help. You have to stop doing the motion that is causing the pain and the damage to your shoulder first. Pain is our body's warning sign. It is there because you are causing some damage to the shoulder. Not so much that it won't get better. But enough so it is worth changing things.

And I guarantee that the movement that is causing the pain in your shoulder is also causing your FH to be not as good as it could be.

When you fix your technique, the pain will go away and your FH will be a much better weapon for you.

But some stretches won't hurt as long as you also start trying to figure out what needs to change in your FH technique.

Good luck.

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UpSideDownCarl · Jul 26, 2016

First look up rotator cuff strengthening exercises and start doing them.

Here are some stretches for the shoulder:

You might go further or not as far in the stretches. That does not matter. In these stretches, you only go to where the stretch feels relaxed but like a nice stretch.

Here is a good external rotator strengthening video:

But research rotator cuff strengthening. The more exercises you can do for them, the better. And they are not exercises with a lot of weight. They are detail exercises because the rotator cuff muscles are small muscles that are deep muscles underneath all the other muscles and the have a lot to do with shoulder joint alignment and stability when the shoulder joint is used.

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Siva Schopenhauer · Jul 26, 2016

nice videos Carl, would help a lot with shoulder pain. Do share if you have some more. The second one looks like a part of Garudasana

UpSideDownCarl · Jul 26, 2016

Siva Schopenhauer said:
nice videos Carl, would help a lot with shoulder pain. Do share if you have some more. The second one looks like a part of Garudasana

It is indeed. It is the arms for Eagle Pose (Garudasana) but the slow movement up and down does something cool for your shoulder. Especially when you keep your shoulder blades back and down while doing the movement.

This one is a modification of the Garudasana arms for someone less flexible:

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Siva Schopenhauer · Jul 26, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
It is indeed. It is the arms for Eagle Pose (Garudasana) but the slow movement up and down does something cool for your shoulder. Especially when you keep your shoulder blades back and down while doing the movement.

This one is a modification of the Garudasana arms for someone less flexible:

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

i am actually doing these right now sitting in my chair. For me as u know the right shoulder is worked up. So should i keep the right below the left arm or the contrary for this eagle pose exercise?

achalwins94 · Jul 26, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
NextLevel has actually given the important info. David added to it.

If you are using your upper arm so much that your FH bothers your shoulder, you need to fix your technique.

If you are damaging your shoulder as a result of your FH technique, you need to fix your technique.

Using Euro rubbers with catapult will help you use the rubber more and the shoulder less. So that may be worth doing. But nothing can replace fixing the technique.

And if your FH technique is damaging your shoulder (which it is or you would not feel pain from playing) then no amount of stretches will help and no amount of rotator cuff muscle strengthening will help.

Those things will only help if you also fix the technique. I have played TT for 7 hours straight and it did not bother my shoulder. If 3 hours bothers your shoulder, you need to fix your FH technique.

As David said, in a FH, the upper arm should not move too much. It should be mostly weight transfer, core rotation, forearm snap and wrist from whip mechanics.

I can post a whole arsenal of photos for stretching your shoulder. I would also encourage you to do a search for exercises for strengthening your rotator cuff muscles. Because almost all adults would benefit from that and most shoulder conditions are helped by rotator cuff strengthening, even when that is not the underlying issue.

If you take ibuprofen because your head hurts, it might do something. But if you keep banging your head into a wall, your head will still hurt and over time it will hurt more and more.

The same is true for your shoulder. If you do stuff to make it feel better and not hurt as much, but continue to do the thing that is causing the trauma to your shoulder, over time it will become more serious in spite of efforts to alleviate the pain after you cause the trauma.

I hope you understand what I am saying and that this helps.

Without fixing the mechanics that are causing the problem, other things that are good for your shoulder will not be enough to help. You have to stop doing the motion that is causing the pain and the damage to your shoulder first. Pain is our body's warning sign. It is there because you are causing some damage to the shoulder. Not so much that it won't get better. But enough so it is worth changing things.

And I guarantee that the movement that is causing the pain in your shoulder is also causing your FH to be not as good as it could be.

When you fix your technique, the pain will go away and your FH will be a much better weapon for you.

But some stretches won't hurt as long as you also start trying to figure out what needs to change in your FH technique.

Good luck.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Watching chinese players playing tremendous loops, I was intimidated, and slowly I kind of made a habit of using my shoulder more rather than whole body transfer to play the shot.
Next time I play, this is what I will work on, from the basics to advanced, with slow movement and then make the habit of using lower body and body transfer.
The stretches you showed, is what I do sometimes after I play. And yes, I will incorporate those exercises from the vids. Thanks Carl ! Your posts have been direct and to the point, without any taint, that's what I like about your posts !

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achalwins94 · Jul 26, 2016

ejcool said:
Hi there !
I am having same kind of trouble , mostly from uncontrolled smashes- which are supposed to win a point with humiliating force - and it seems to be better if you do try a daily routine warm up in the morning , followed by a light weight -3 pounds- set of exercises just to rotate your shoulder as wide as possible trying to maintain control of your whole arm speedwise.
Best wishes

Yeah, I too have a soft spot for playing power loop by fh when the ball is at bh side. In that, my power has increased, but I feel that in that shot, I am applying too much shoulder. My technique and timing doesn't seem fully right, after so many valuable posts in this thread. And I need to slow down my game, in order to play correct strokes, in order to save my body from injuries.

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UpSideDownCarl · Jul 26, 2016

Siva Schopenhauer said:
i am actually doing these right now sitting in my chair. For me as u know the right shoulder is worked up. So should i keep the right below the left arm or the contrary for this eagle pose exercise?

The arm that is higher is the one that gets more stretch. But you should do both sides. And you should be trying to feel and be aware of how and where you feel the stretch.

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Siva Schopenhauer · Jul 26, 2016

thanks Carl

gmiller2233 · Jul 26, 2016

Carl you post some stretches for me in a thread a few months back to help increase range of motion and movements for my backhand. With some time between now and then I Just wanted to say that the were very helpful. The pain I occasionally had is gone and the increased movement range has helped in improving my backhand play and it's consistency. I will say (do to my over eagerness) I did overdo it a bit at first. I actually strained a tendon (the one in your forearm that connects to your thumb). But after I let that rest for a few weeks and I eased back into stretching and play its been great.

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iamvtwo · Jul 27, 2016

I dont know your reason how you get your shoulder hurt but if its because of the CHINESE rubber
I think you should change your rubber back to the EUROPE one
But i dont think that's actually the case, so i would recommend you to do stretches before playing
If its caused when using your FH then i would advice you to change your technique
I think it is most likely caused by your technique because you dont have to use that much of your arm and shoulder when doing your FH
You would use your hips and turn to save up energy and helps you build momentum
I would advice you to do stretches as warm up, change your technique and change your rubber since that will help quite a bit
If you still want to use the chinese rubber then you should build physical strength!

Cheers and i hope you would recover well!

Dan · Jul 28, 2016

Lots of good posts. I have have had shoulder pain for the last 3 months from doing coaching. The physio has told me its a repetitive strain injury. He also thinks I have bicep tendinitis. A lot of Carls stretches I have been doing, I would follow them as they have helped me a lot.

I know a lot of players who have developed shoulder injuries recently. Anyone think the plastic ball could be to blame? I used some celluloid balls the other day and my shots were so much more effortless.

I wonder if using the plastic ball is forcing us to play with more of the smaller muscles that we didn't usually have to use before during the cell era. I notice it in the junior players I coach, after they play a long exercise their not knackered all the time from extortion, its from aching in their shoulder/arm. Just theories..

Shoulder pain

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