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  1. Boogar is offline
    says Spin for the win!
     
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    #1

    What is the most important part of the Forehand Topspin?

    Hey guys

    What do you guys think is the most important part of the forehand topspin?

    As for me it seems to change all the time. One day i think its the follow through up to the head, on another day its the back swing, then its the forearm snap and then its the right angle and kind of contact...

    Its probably a mix of all these. However i found to have the best dip and control if I combine a long enough back swing together with a long enough follow trough, without too much emphasis on the other things. If I try to concentrate on more than two thing at once the loop breaks apart completely...

    I guess i just have to focus on one aspect at a time.

    What is your take on that ?

    Cheers
    Spin Spin Spin...

  2. Ilia Minkin is offline
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    #2
    Here are different aspects from my point of view with their importance in %:

    25% Feeling of good contact with the ball when it gets into the sponge and starts to roll
    25% Correct body rotation so that you can generate power easily and consistently
    25% Footwork to get into position
    10% Forearm snap
    10% Push off with legs and weight transfer so that you can add power when needed
    5% Wrist snap to add/vary spin

  3. Shuki is offline
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    #3
    Most important thing is timing. Timing to me ends up being a mixture of everything. If my timing is right, it means I got in position and went through the ball well. Didn't swing too early, didn't swing to late. If I'm in position and my timing's right, my form will be right. The deviations in form like not going up to my head come from being out of position or swinging too early or something like that.
    Why practice to become better when you can pretend to be better on a forum?

  4. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #4
    Here is what I think is the most important part:

    Getting to watch the ball arc and hook and thinking: "I did that!"

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  5. bzing is offline
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    #5
    I think the timing of the feet is the most important part, the parts with the arm movement should already be in place and well developed.

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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by bzing
    I think the timing of the feet is the most important part, the parts with the arm movement should already be in place and well developed.
    I also think the footwork has a major role in every successful shot. Technically, so many variations are possible - just watch the world´s best players, no two techniques are similar.

    But if your position to the ball is wrong, you can´t compensate.

  7. BeGo is offline
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    #7
    That the blade actually hit, technically slash, the ball. :-P

    Sent from my T1X Plus using Tapatalk

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    #8
    Getting into position. That means, distance from ball, position of body relative to ball, height of stance, stance width etc.

    Everything else just falls into place if I get that right. I don't think that consciously being aware of how long your followthrough is, how fast you snap your elbow vs how much you use your upper arm etc. is of any real use. This is assuming you're just doing the shot and not trying to improve it or change it.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Archosaurus
    Getting into position. That means, distance from ball, position of body relative to ball, height of stance, stance width etc.

    Everything else just falls into place if I get that right. I don't think that consciously being aware of how long your followthrough is, how fast you snap your elbow vs how much you use your upper arm etc. is of any real use. This is assuming you're just doing the shot and not trying to improve it or change it.
    This is the king pin....if you miss this one all other is just saving the moment...
    Last edited by bobpuls; 08-20-2016 at 12:59 PM.

  10. TTFrenzy is offline
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    #10
    Everything is important. the question should be what should i focus first on, second, third etc

    A. Relaxed mind=relaxed muscles, eyes on the ball, just super focus and empty your mind. play relaxed on autopilot. If something is wrong identify/correct it => practice to perfection. Dont worry about perfect technique it comes after millions of repetitions. A. goes for everything you do while you play tt so i get into the FH stroke

    1. Getting into perfect position depending on the incoming ball (its arc spin and speed)

    2.Solid step on Right or left foot down&back and simultaneously you turn your waist hips and arm. (your whole body to be exact) along with the turning of your foot => store energy

    3. Release energy hitting the ball, legs body & arm are adapted to the arc spin & speed automatically if you get your position right (this is not something u learn from one day to another, different kinds of balls require different kinds of adaptation in your FH stroke)

    4. Recovery for the next ball. Recovery mostly but not always depends on your backswing. Just try to find what suits you best in terms of backswing & recovery. Samsonov 1.92 cm height or something like that has obviously very different footwork backswing and recovery in all of his strokes than Mizutani who is much shorter

    You seem to be overanalyzing/overthinking the situation. S T O P I T N O W!

    If you have a coach try to find what suits you best (you will just feel it when that happens, so dont listen to anyone that tells you "this is the perfect technique for everuone" and BS like that). If you dont have a coach try to mimic the tutorials in youtube videos of pingskills/ttedge and whatever tutorial you like

    TT technique is like a domino. You do the 1st step correct (get into position&adapt to the incoming ball) everything else happens automatically like a falling domino. You miss the 1st step and the result is simply nothing (yeah maybe you get the ball inside with crappy technique and win, but you certainly dont improve)

    So all in all, focus on the A in general and 1. for your FH which is to get into position and turn/adapt your body. If still there is a problem then identify which one of the steps is it and fix it

    most important : ask this question while a training partner who knows a thing or two about technique watches you. Forums are good and even if you give us a video, the best way to train is when you have someone observing you face to face while you play. There are probably hundreds of reasons of why you are not satisfied with your FH, and if one cannot see you play live, one cannot simply give proper advice.

    But at least I tried to give some insight, from personal experience. Hope I helped

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  11. Boogar is offline
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy
    Everything is important. the question should be what should i focus first on, second, third etc

    A. Relaxed mind=relaxed muscles, eyes on the ball, just super focus and empty your mind. play relaxed on autopilot. If something is wrong identify/correct it => practice to perfection. Dont worry about perfect technique it comes after millions of repetitions. A. goes for everything you do while you play tt so i get into the FH stroke

    1. Getting into perfect position depending on the incoming ball (its arc spin and speed)

    2.Solid step on Right or left foot down&back and simultaneously you turn your waist hips and arm. (your whole body to be exact) along with the turning of your foot => store energy

    3. Release energy hitting the ball, legs body & arm are adapted to the arc spin & speed automatically if you get your position right (this is not something u learn from one day to another, different kinds of balls require different kinds of adaptation in your FH stroke)

    4. Recovery for the next ball. Recovery mostly but not always depends on your backswing. Just try to find what suits you best in terms of backswing & recovery. Samsonov 1.92 cm height or something like that has obviously very different footwork backswing and recovery in all of his strokes than Mizutani who is much shorter

    You seem to be overanalyzing/overthinking the situation. S T O P I T N O W!

    If you have a coach try to find what suits you best (you will just feel it when that happens, so dont listen to anyone that tells you "this is the perfect technique for everuone" and BS like that). If you dont have a coach try to mimic the tutorials in youtube videos of pingskills/ttedge and whatever tutorial you like

    TT technique is like a domino. You do the 1st step correct (get into position&adapt to the incoming ball) everything else happens automatically like a falling domino. You miss the 1st step and the result is simply nothing (yeah maybe you get the ball inside with crappy technique and win, but you certainly dont improve)

    So all in all, focus on the A in general and 1. for your FH which is to get into position and turn/adapt your body. If still there is a problem then identify which one of the steps is it and fix it

    most important : ask this question while a training partner who knows a thing or two about technique watches you. Forums are good and even if you give us a video, the best way to train is when you have someone observing you face to face while you play. There are probably hundreds of reasons of why you are not satisfied with your FH, and if one cannot see you play live, one cannot simply give proper advice.

    But at least I tried to give some insight, from personal experience. Hope I helped
    Thanks for yous answer. At the moment i'm changing so much all the time, i think i need to focus on the simple things first. Just like you said.
    If i get a good opportunity i will post a video of my FH TOpspin.
    Spin Spin Spin...

  12. anchorschmidt is offline
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    #12
    If you have obtained Hurricane 3 National Sponge Blue Edition from the holy waters of the yellow river.

  13. Donow is offline
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    #13
    You are on the right track, just keep focusing on the most important aspect you feel your stroke will improve and once integrated move to add something else and so on. And go back to the previous aspects if you feel you are losing them. I apply this rule and this is the best way for me to keep progressing by maintining solid strokes mechanics.

  14. songdavid98 is offline
    says it's not practice if there's no counterattacking
     
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    #14
    Read everything before you reply to this.


    Answer for the rookie players:

    I'll assume you know how to drive the ball.

    If you are still learning the stroke, the most important thing that needs fixing is the backswing. You have to change the starting and ending points of your swing. If you want to spin the ball, you can't have your paddle having a head-on collision with the ball. Swing in a way that you'll skim the ball.

    There isn't much for me to say here. Just keep practicing; that's the easiest way to improve now, so get off the internet (or watch ping pong videos, but I don't really recommend that because you'll get distracted.)

    *********************************************************

    Answer for the intermediate players:

    Great, you know how to spin the ball now.

    Right now, you are in this gray area where there actually isn't any single most important factor.
    Chances are, you guys are having trouble with AT LEAST TWO of the things below.

    Timing: don't miss it
    Footwork: move your feet; this is a sport.
    Forearm: snap it
    Legs, core, and the rest of your body: use it. turn into the ball. Follow through
    Recovery: get ready for the next ball
    Reading the ball: judging the incoming ball's characteristics.
    etc.

    Work on these things. Also, you have to learn different variations of the forehand topspin in order to deal with every shot.
    For example, against serves, pushes, chops, blocks, and loops.

    You guys can argue over which of these things are most important. I don't really care, because they are all important.

    *********************************************************


    More In-depth answer for more experienced players that have already mastered the above:

    Obviously, there are many aspects and factors that go into the forehand topspin.

    Many of them are all listed here, but they all accumulate into one thing: the swing.

    Timing: if you mistime your swing, you will obviously miss the ball.
    Footwork: If your footwork is bad, you aren't going to get a good swing at the ball. You don't want to ball to be too far away or too close to your elbow.
    Forearm snap: helps you follow through on the swing and accelerate.
    Legs, core, and the rest of your body: helps you follow through on the swing and accelerate.
    Recovery: helps you prepare for the next swing.
    There might be others I missed.

    All of this applies to the backhand too.

    If there was any one single factor that would help your swing, it would be this:


    YOUR EYES. Learn how to read and optimally adjust to the ball.


    Every ball is different, whether it be speed, height, depth, pace, or spin.
    If you can respond accordingly to all of these factors with every swing you take, you'll find that you'll be able to make longer rallies, because you are adjusting your stroke to perfectly match every shot. It's like giving each ball your personal attention.
    Don't say this is impossible, because all it takes is focus.

    Also, the forehand loop is meant to be ADJUSTABLE. If your forehand topspin is adjustable, then it can truly adapt to every ball and actually be a one size fits all kind of swing.

    If you can't adjust, then you will soon figure out that THERE IS NO ONE SWING FITS ALL. There is no one specific swing that will get every shot on the table.
    You can't just focus on one thing part of your swing and expect to make all of your shots.
    One of the worst things you can do in a match is think about your stroke.
    Pay attention to the ball, because that is what is most important.

    I used to be like you guys, thinking about, discussing, and talking about different parts of the swing. One day, I would practice snapping my forearm, and another day I would be trying to get the top of the bounce every shot.

    Now, I just think about what is the most optimal way to hit that one ball, that would have the most consistency and give my opponent trouble at the same time. To me, every shot is individualized, because your opponent can do so many different things to the ball. Your comfortable forehand loop against one player might not be optimal against another player.

    I've been doing this lately, and my consistency with EVERY shot improved, not just my topspins. Granted with the topspins, it is easier since you have more time to accurately judge the ball's speed, height, spin, depth, etc. But if you give personal attention to every shot, you will get better service return, better blocks, pretty much better everything.

    Never do mindless training; there is no way you can personalize every shot if you don't use your brain.
    Always be mindful and be aware of the ball coming to you.

    *****************************************************************

    Personal:
    I used to change my stroke a lot because I used to think my stroke was wrong. (Changing your stroke actually isn't that hard. Just stop caring about missing.) I did all sorts of things with my forehand and my backhand. I think I've gone through every understandable type of topspin stroke, in search of the most optimal one. One day, I just stopped and decided to think about what the pros did.

    So I posted a thread here about this, to gain some insight.
    Thanks guys.
    Here's the thread by the way.
    http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/fo...a-professional

    So I started to pay attention to ball quality and reading the ball.
    I used to never really pay attention to the height of the ball (unless it was extreme), but as soon as I started to pay attention to it, it was a lot easier for me to adjust my backswing and judge the ball's characteristics. Everything became easier.


    I've been getting longer rallies lately and I think this is how you improve your shot quality. Counter-looping got a lot easier. This is probably my path of improvement.
    I am no longer ONE LOOP MAN, I am SERIOUS CONSECUTIVE LOOPS MAN.


    **************************************************

    P.S.
    I'm starting to think lately that 'good touch' is just another term for 'adjusts well to the ball.'


    EDIT: grammar edits

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    Last edited by songdavid98; 08-21-2016 at 03:01 PM.
    Always go forward

  15. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by songdavid98
    Read everything before you reply to this.


    Answer for the rookie players:

    I'll assume you know how to drive the ball.

    If you are still learning the stroke, the most important thing that needs fixing is the backswing. You have to change the starting and ending points of your swing. If you want to spin the ball, you can't have your paddle having a head-on collision with the ball. Swing in a way that you'll skim the ball.

    There isn't much for me to say here. Just keep practicing; that's the easiest way to improve now, so get off the internet (or watch ping pong videos, but I don't really recommend that because you'll get distracted.)

    *********************************************************

    Answer for the intermediate players:

    Great, you know how to spin the ball now.

    Right now, you are in this gray area where there actually isn't any single most important factor.
    Chances are, you guys are having trouble with AT LEAST TWO of the things below.

    Timing: don't miss it
    Footwork: move your feet; this is a sport.
    Forearm: snap it
    Legs, core, and the rest of your body: use it. turn into the ball. Follow through
    Recovery: get ready for the next ball
    Reading the ball: judging the incoming ball's characteristics.
    etc.

    Work on these things. Also, you have to learn different variations of the forehand topspin in order to deal with every shot.
    For example, against serves, pushes, chops, blocks, and loops.

    You guys can argue over which of these things are most important. I don't really care, because they are all important.

    *********************************************************


    More In-depth answer for more experienced players that have already mastered the above:

    Obviously, there are many aspects and factors that go into the forehand topspin.

    Many of them are all listed here, but they all accumulate into one thing: the swing.

    Timing: if you mistime your swing, you will obviously miss the ball.
    Footwork: If your footwork is bad, you aren't going to get a good swing at the ball. You don't want to ball to be too far away or too close to your elbow.
    Forearm snap: helps you follow through on the swing and accelerate.
    Legs, core, and the rest of your body: helps you follow through on the swing and accelerate.
    Recovery: helps you prepare for the next swing.
    There might be others I missed.

    All of this applies to the backhand too.

    If there was any one single factor that would help your swing, it would be this:


    YOUR EYES. Learn how to read and optimally adjust to the ball.


    Every ball is different, whether it be speed, height, depth, pace, or spin.
    If you can respond accordingly to all of these factors with every swing you take, you'll find that you'll be able to make longer rallies, because you are adjusting your stroke to perfectly match every shot. It's like giving each ball your personal attention.
    Don't say this is impossible, because all it takes is focus.

    Also, the forehand loop is meant to be ADJUSTABLE. If your forehand topspin is adjustable, then it can truly adapt to every ball and actually be a one size fits all kind of swing.

    If you can't adjust, then you will soon figure out that THERE IS NO ONE SWING FITS ALL. There is no one specific swing that will get every shot on the table.
    You can't just focus on one thing part of your swing and expect to make all of your shots.
    One of the worst things you can do in a match is think about your stroke.
    Pay attention to the ball, because that is what is most important.

    I used to be like you guys, thinking about, discussing, and talking about different parts of the swing. One day, I would practice snapping my forearm, and another day I would be trying to get the top of the bounce every shot.

    Now, I just think about what is the most optimal way to hit that one ball, that would have the most consistency and give my opponent trouble at the same time. To me, every shot is individualized, because your opponent can do so many different things to the ball. Your comfortable forehand loop against one player might not be optimal against another player.

    I've been doing this lately, and my consistency with EVERY shot improved, not just my topspins. Granted with the topspins, it is easier since you have more time to accurately judge the ball's speed, height, spin, depth, etc. But if you give personal attention to every shot, you will get better service return, better blocks, pretty much better everything.

    Never do mindless training; there is no way you can personalize every shot if you don't use your brain.
    Always be mindful and be aware of the ball coming to you.

    *****************************************************************

    Personal:
    I used to change my stroke a lot because I used to think my stroke was wrong. (Changing your stroke actually isn't that hard. Just stop caring about missing.) I did all sorts of things with my forehand and my backhand. I think I've gone through every understandable type of topspin stroke, in search of the most optimal one. One day, I just stopped and decided to think about what the pros did.

    So I posted a thread here about this, to gain some insight.
    Thanks guys.
    Here's the thread by the way.
    http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/fo...a-professional

    So I started to pay attention to ball quality and reading the ball.
    I used to never really pay attention to the height of the ball (unless it was extreme), but as soon as I started to pay attention to it, it was a lot easier for me to adjust my backswing and judge the ball's characteristics. Everything became easier.


    I've been getting longer rallies lately and I think this is how you improve your shot quality. Counter-looping got a lot easier. This is probably my path of improvement.
    I am no longer ONE LOOP MAN, I am SERIOUS CONSECUTIVE LOOPS MAN.


    **************************************************

    P.S.
    I'm starting to think lately that 'good touch' is just another term for 'adjusts well to the ball.'


    EDIT: grammar edits
    This is one awesome post. Guys, start hitting the SUPER LIKE button.

    This is the king of post that makes me wish that every so often you could use an option and give one post multiple likes.


    Sent from Deep Space by Abacus
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    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  16. NextLevel is online now
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    #16
    The most important part of the forehand loop is specific to each individual and is always the part you are missing to make it better.

    If I had to give an answer, I would say racket head speed/whip mechanics. You can't loop without that. Other things are important like timing, ball tracking, grazing/hitting into the sponge, or even footwork/recovery. But for the stroke itself, racket head speed. If you have racket head speed, you have options. You can teach anyone who has racket head speed to fix their stroke and loop.

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