Looking for advice (mainly on equipment)

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Whatever you do, don't get a Rosewood VII. Well, unless you want to play with a tree trunk.

Clipper is awesome. It is one of the best 7 ply all wood blades. I know a lot of pro players who use Clipper.

Rosewood V NCT is excellent also.

Rosewood XO even better.

Intensity NCT (all wood) is good.

Nittaku Acoustic good.

Best blade for the money of the ones I listed is Clipper. And if you are okay with a 7 ply blade that is a little on the heavy side, it is also just as good as any blade listed.


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Don't you think the Clipper would be too stiff?
I reckon a 5 ply blade with some flex will get JekaE going alright to start with.
 
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Don't you think the Clipper would be too stiff?
I reckon a ply blade with some flex will get JekaE going alright to start with.

You could be right. That is why I stated: "if you are okay with a 7 ply blade that is a little on the heavy side...."

From the standpoint that it is 7mm thick and on the heavy side, it is a great blade. Note, the other blades I listed are 5 ply blades of a similar speed (or close to), but they are more expensive.

If I was to really say what I think is going to be best for JekaE, I would say, he probably would be best off with a 5 ply, all wood, Off- blade. A blade on this list.

1) Yasaka Sweden Extra
2) Stiga Allround Evolution
3) Stiga Offensive Classic
4) Tibhar Stratus Power Wood
5) Butterfly Primorac Off-
6) Butterfly Petr Korbel
7) OSP Virtuoso Off-
8) OSP Virtuoso Plus
9) Nitakku Acoustic
10) Nitakku Violin

But I say this sooooo often and JekaE was looking at blades that were fancier and more expensive and even looking at things like a Rosewood VII. Since he has played before but it has been a long time, I was giving suggestions within the range of blades he was looking at: fast, Off rated, on the stiffer side. And most of the blades he was looking at are more expensive than most of the blades on the list I just left except for the OSP blades and the Nitakku blades which are also on the expensive side of things.

Ultimately, if JekaE decides he wants a blade that will have good feel and will help him develop his skills more, he will look at 5 ply, all wood, blades in the All+/Off- speed range. And these blades do tend to be less expensive.

And the truth is, to know for sure what he needs, we would have to see him play. So based on the information given, that he played when he was younger, started again about 3 months ago after a break of 12 years, and his skills are coming back fast, he will most likely be totally fine with blades in the speed class he has already been looking even though he most probably would be slightly better off with a blade that is a little slower, thinner, with more flex and more dwell time.

How important that would be is based on his touch and how much of his touch has returned to him and what his level actually is. And sometimes what we WANT does trump what would be most useful for us, especially if what we want is still really okay. :)
 
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You could be right. That is why I stated: "if you are okay with a 7 ply blade that is a little on the heavy side...."

From the standpoint that it is 7mm thick and on the heavy side, it is a great blade. Note, the other blades I listed are 5 ply blades of a similar speed (or close to), but they are more expensive.

If I was to really say what I think is going to be best for JekaE, I would say, he probably would be best off with a 5 ply, all wood, Off- blade. A blade on this list.

1) Yasaka Sweden Extra
2) Stiga Allround Evolution
3) Stiga Offensive Classic
4) Tibhar Stratus Power Wood
5) Butterfly Primorac Off-
6) Butterfly Petr Korbel
7) OSP Virtuoso Off-
8) OSP Virtuoso Plus
9) Nitakku Acoustic
10) Nitakku Violin

But I say this sooooo often and JekaE was looking at blades that were fancier and more expensive and even looking at things like a Rosewood VII. Since he has played before but it has been a long time, I was giving suggestions within the range of blades he was looking at: fast, Off rated, on the stiffer side. And most of the blades he was looking at are more expensive than most of the blades on the list I just left except for the OSP blades and the Nitakku blades which are also on the expensive side of things.

Ultimately, if JekaE decides he wants a blade that will have good feel and will help him develop his skills more, he will look at 5 ply, all wood, blades in the All+/Off- speed range. And these blades do tend to be less expensive.

And the truth is, to know for sure what he needs, we would have to see him play. So based on the information given, that he played when he was younger, started again about 3 months ago after a break of 12 years, and his skills are coming back fast, he will most likely be totally fine with blades in the speed class he has already been looking even though he most probably would be slightly better off with a blade that is a little slower, thinner, with more flex and more dwell time.

How important that would be is based on his touch and how much of his touch has returned to him and what his level actually is. And sometimes what we WANT does trump what would be most useful for us, especially if what we want is still really okay. :)

Aah yeah I see where you are going. This post gives me a Déjà vu from other threads where you posted and I tend to agree with you.
A video would be preferable of cause before suggesting anything.
I was more leaning towards a smooth transition from 5 ply to a 7 ply blade in JekaE 's comeback development.
And if he feels confident using a 7 ply to start with that would also be ok.

I hope you get my idea.
 
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Understand what your saying , however iam not even sure if i understand the difference between a 5ply to 7ply.
However as mentioned i tried few blades , and from what i could feel better with is - lighter , slower than my setup , yet fast enough / great control/feeling.

so this is what i think iam looking for , but again , like you said , alot of the times what we want isnt really what we need.

with that in mind , a 5ply (off) would be better almost in all scenarios but its just more expensive ? do i understand this correctly ?

assuming Iam mid lvl player , with a close to the table and fast playing styple , who want to get to semi-pro lvl , what would in your option be the best setup both to learn and play in a league with the will to win and develop.

Another interesting thing is , most of the blades in the list you gave are very cheap , and some like the violin are expensive , so does that mean that if i would go for the expensive one i would be "future safe" and i can play with it for several years without the need to switch it ?

Or maybe the approach should be a cheap blade for half a year or so and than pick an expensive one when i get the technique better ?
 
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Carl and Tony have pointed out some of the reasons already. You really need to adjust to the rubber. Sounds like you need some more brush action when playing BH away from the table. The rubber should be fast enough. If you bottom out rubber when playing away for the table the rubber would be too soft then it is another case.

FX-P shouldn't bottom out in BH when I've seen some players use it in FH without that issue. Didn't or don't Lebesson play FX-P in FH?
 
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Another interesting thing is , most of the blades in the list you gave are very cheap , and some like the violin are expensive , so does that mean that if i would go for the expensive one i would be "future safe" and i can play with it for several years without the need to switch it ?

Or maybe the approach should be a cheap blade for half a year or so and than pick an expensive one when i get the technique better ?

Equipment info:

A lot of the time players who don't really know how equipment work think more expensive is better and more expensive will save you more money in the long run.

This just isn't actually how table tennis equipment works. Let's see if I can explain this.

There is the TT company marketing machines that do a great job of figuring out how to get mid-level players to buy blades that cost $100.00-$400.00 when the blade they are getting is absolutely a hinderance to the player's development.

Then there are the people who are simply normal people and think of table tennis like any other sport. A better tennis racket is usually more expensive than a junkie one. But in tennis, you are never better off with a junkie racket. And in table tennis, a lot of the less expensive blades are simply blades that are simple. And most of the blades that cost $300.00-$400.00 cost $5.00 to make instead of $2.00 but what makes them $3.00 more expensive to make does not actually make them better.

Then there is the issue that, in table tennis, until your spin and shot quality are at a certain level, what is best for helping your technique improve is most of the blades on that list.

What helps you develop and improve your technique in a blade when your spin generation and shot quality are below a semi-pro level?????

A 5 ply, all wood, thin flexible blade with a top ply that isn't too hard, that gives you a lot of feedback so it is easier to feel the ball on the blade face, that is in the All+/Off- speed range?

Why, all wood helps you feel and learn to spin better. Thin flexible blades have more dwell time which helps you spin the ball better. A soft or semi-soft outer ply increases dwell time, helps you grab the ball more fully and helps you feel the touch and contact for spinning the ball better.

One of the things that is hardest to understand is that, in many ways, these kinds of blades may not feel as good as a flashy, more expensive blade. The sweetspot will be smaller. The speed will be slower. When your contact is not so good, it will feel BAD. When your contact us good, it will feel good. Interestingly, this is part of what makes these blades help you refine your technique. And most of how this happens is on a subcortical level (below the level of conscious thought). You feel bad contact. You don't like it. You feel good contact, you like it. Without realizing it, your quality of contact and level of spin, and power improves.

Another thing these blades do that is also. It entirely on a conscious level is, they are slower so they make you work a little harder. You have to time your hips, legs and weight transfer better or you get a weaker shot. A faster blade does more for you so your technique does not have to be as good. And you won't realize your contact isn't as good and that your stroke isn't that good because the blade's speed allows shots that are not technically proficient to seem as though they are because of the results.

I have a few friends who are pro tennis players who also play TT. I am often talking about one who is a lefty. This guy is different. He is a righty. He is about 2300 USATT and he uses a Stiga Allround Classic. Now that is one of the slowest blades I have ever used for more than a few hits. But this guy's stroke technique is so good, so powerful, that he can hit balls as hard, fast and spinny as any pro TT player with a carbon blade.

Why is he not higher level? Because he does not read and respond to spin at a high enough level. But it is not the quality of his strokes and his body mechanics. And his TENNIS strokes are obviously tennis strokes. But is table tennis strokes are real table tennis strokes or he could not be the level he is.

Anyway, even the stiffer 7 ply wood blades block some feeling and the stiffness which allows you to transfer more power into the ball also requires a higher level of precision.

So why would the Acoustic, the Violin, the Virtuoso Off- and Plus cost so much more and not really perform that differently? Craftsmanship or marketing depending on how you look at it. Nittaku claims the Acoustic and Violin are glued with the same process used in gluing musical instruments like a violin. OSP makes their blades by hand customed to order.

They are fancier. But not necessarily better. And when you are at the stage where you could use any blade, fast or slow, you will hopefully know enough about equipment and what you want to choose for yourself.

So, any of those blades on my list would likely be good for you.

The fastest blades on that list, in no particular order, are:

1) Nitakku Acoustic
2)OSP Virtuoso Plus
3) Butterfly Petr Korbel
4) Tibhar Status Power Wood

The ones that are not as fast have a real usefulness though in helping you develop your technique.

Hope this info helps.

With these blades you could choose harder rubbers than I suggested like:

Butterfly Tenergy 05
Xiom Omega V Pro
Yasaka Rakza 7
Joola Rhyzm

But soft rubbers have a real value too.


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Thanks alot Carl , that was very helpful.
Had a short session today , didnt have a chance to film some thing long but i did capture few spins.
Would that help with the equipment suggestion ?
 
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Thanks alot Carl , that was very helpful.
Had a short session today , didnt have a chance to film some thing long but i did capture few spins.
Would that help with the equipment suggestion ?

I would still say all/off- blade with forgiving rubbers (not in max IMO an overkill).

Mediumsoft/Medium Acuda, Airoc, Bluefire, Bryce Speed FX, Calibra, Coppa, Evolution, Flexxon, Proton, Pryde, Rakza, Rasant, Rhyzm, Target Force, Victas V>01 and other Mediumsoft/Medium rubbers which are less spinsensitive then Tenergy. I would also point out that some of the Xiom rubbers having slippage problems under moist conditions (IMO) but are in overall also good rubbers.
 
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Yeah. You are swinging hard and putting a lot of effort into each stroke. But it seems the effort is higher than the power transferred into the ball.

This makes it seem, from the standpoint of what will help your technique I prove most, that an All+/Off- blade would be a good option.

I do have a different perspective then some on rubbers, I feel, if you get a 5 ply blade in the category listed, you can use any rubber and any thickness you want.

But, one more piece of information.

Sometimes what you want and what is best for your development are not the same. And sometimes it is okay going with what you want instead of what would be best for the development of your technique. So you have to decide for yourself really. The faster stuff is fun. And even if it did slow down your development a little, it would not be a lot. And you may have more fun playing with a faster blade.

Ideally you would have the opportunity to try what you are thinking of getting.


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So would the stratus power wood with rakza 7 on FH and rakza 7 soft on BH would be a good choice ?
or should i go for a slower blade?

p.s , bottom line from your previous post was the blades like the acustik/voilin are worth it or they are just too expensive for what u get?
thanks.
 
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Yes iam aware of that, i saw there is a large variant, isn't that like a normal handle?
And still can any one share his experience as if the more expensive blade are worth it ?

Iam talking about Acoustic / rosewood xo etc...

or some thing like stratus power wood will be enough ?

either way it will pair with rakza 7 on FH and rakza 7 soft on BH (or similar)

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Well after reading reviews on most of the blades posted here the top 3 that seems to get amazing reviews are :
Stiga rosewood XO
Nittaku acoustik
OSP virtuoso +

which one is the best from the above (as price is similar).
And how much time until OSP blade is made ? (as i understand it hand made only after you order it)
 
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Well after reading reviews on most of the blades posted here the top 3 that seems to get amazing reviews are :
Stiga rosewood XO
Nittaku acoustik
OSP virtuoso +

which one is the best from the above (as price is similar).
And how much time until OSP blade is made ? (as i understand it hand made only after you order it)

I would say, from watching you play, that the Nittaku would be more suitable...
 
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Well after reading reviews on most of the blades posted here the top 3 that seems to get amazing reviews are :
Stiga rosewood XO
Nittaku acoustik
OSP virtuoso +

which one is the best from the above (as price is similar).
And how much time until OSP blade is made ? (as i understand it hand made only after you order it)

I would say, from watching you play, that the Nittaku would be more suitable...

What are you currently using?
 
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Well after reading reviews on most of the blades posted here the top 3 that seems to get amazing reviews are :
Stiga rosewood XO
Nittaku acoustik
OSP virtuoso +

which one is the best from the above (as price is similar).
And how much time until OSP blade is made ? (as i understand it hand made only after you order it)

Here's a question for you. Do you like blade that have bigger headsize and in general feels more head heavy? If you do like it, SPW will suit you just fine. It's my current blade (until my OSP arrives) and it's an absolutely great blade that beginners to even pros can use.

I've tried rosewood XO once. It feels really nice but in my experience, a wood with hard outer ply works better with chinese rubbers. It lacks the dwell time a blade with limba outerply can give you.

I owned acoustic and tried violin before. Acoustic is favorite all-wood to date. It's a really good blade except for the handle (which is too small). Violin is good as well but for me it requires too much power for my liking.

If you're looking for a best bang for buck, SPW is your best answer unless you have problem with head-heaviness, headsize or handle.

The reason I'm changing my blade to OSP is because of head-size and handle. I'm very specific about the handle of my blade. What I'm getting in end will be a similar blade to SPW with normal headsize (157x150) and butterfly shaped Squared ST handle.

As for the rubber, it really depends on how much money you're willing to spend. Rakza 7, Omega V Pro, Tibhar evolution EL-S / MX-P, Rasant, Victas etc etc is still a tenergy alternative. Most beginners probably can't squeeze out the more spin that tenergy can create compared to these rubbers. I still use Tenergy nonetheless because I have spring sponge addiction.

My recommendation is probably something like Tibhar Evolution EL-S with rakza 7 soft on BH. EL-S isn't slower than tenergy but seems to have the same high arc and similar amount of spin to it. The rubber is indeed very spin sensitive but in the long run it'll teach you about reading spin. Rakza 7 soft is a probably rubber as well. A lot of people use it on their BH.
 
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Advice on technique: try to stay a little lower! Lower weight centre makes you more stable.
This is the first match what comes to my mind:
EDIT: You start your shot from low enough, but you transfer the weight more upward instead of forward. Against topspin movement is always forward.
 
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I would say, from watching you play, that the Nittaku would be more suitable...

What are you currently using?

Why would you pick the nittaku ?
Right now iam using Ovcherov carbospeed with MX-P on both sides , the blade is extremely fast but i dont feel any thing...
the main problem in my own opinion with this setup is that i have no clue what went wrong with the hit unless its position/timing , i have no feeling of ball contact except the ball did infact hit the bat , but where and how is missing..

Here's a question for you. Do you like blade that have bigger headsize and in general feels more head heavy? If you do like it, SPW will suit you just fine. It's my current blade (until my OSP arrives) and it's an absolutely great blade that beginners to even pros can use.

I've tried rosewood XO once. It feels really nice but in my experience, a wood with hard outer ply works better with chinese rubbers. It lacks the dwell time a blade with limba outerply can give you.

I owned acoustic and tried violin before. Acoustic is favorite all-wood to date. It's a really good blade except for the handle (which is too small). Violin is good as well but for me it requires too much power for my liking.

If you're looking for a best bang for buck, SPW is your best answer unless you have problem with head-heaviness, headsize or handle.

The reason I'm changing my blade to OSP is because of head-size and handle. I'm very specific about the handle of my blade. What I'm getting in end will be a similar blade to SPW with normal headsize (157x150) and butterfly shaped Squared ST handle.

As for the rubber, it really depends on how much money you're willing to spend. Rakza 7, Omega V Pro, Tibhar evolution EL-S / MX-P, Rasant, Victas etc etc is still a tenergy alternative. Most beginners probably can't squeeze out the more spin that tenergy can create compared to these rubbers. I still use Tenergy nonetheless because I have spring sponge addiction.

My recommendation is probably something like Tibhar Evolution EL-S with rakza 7 soft on BH. EL-S isn't slower than tenergy but seems to have the same high arc and similar amount of spin to it. The rubber is indeed very spin sensitive but in the long run it'll teach you about reading spin. Rakza 7 soft is a probably rubber as well. A lot of people use it on their BH.

Well i dont know since i haven't tried that many , and i never notice if its bigger or smaller , however i dont like heavy blades thats for sure , my current setup is somewhat heavy compared to other i tried , not by much but i can defiantly feel the difference.

unless its a OSP i planned to order from TB11 , and it looks like they dont have BF products , is there any other shops with good service and prices? (not even sure how much tenergy cost..)

As for the rubber some people said that evolution is too hard and its not recommended if i want more control and feel.
 
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Why would you pick the nittaku ?
Right now iam using Ovcherov carbospeed with MX-P on both sides , the blade is extremely fast but i dont feel any thing...
the main problem in my own opinion with this setup is that i have no clue what went wrong with the hit unless its position/timing , i have no feeling of ball contact except the ball did infact hit the bat , but where and how is missing..

I thought that would be good because it excels at close to the table and mid range but requires more effort when far away. It also has a long dwell time and has nice feeling which is what you are looking for. In all aspects this blade is good apart from the handle size is quite small.

The rosewood has less control from what I've read but does well close to the table.
 
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I thought that would be good because it excels at close to the table and mid range but requires more effort when far away. It also has a long dwell time and has nice feeling which is what you are looking for. In all aspects this blade is good apart from the handle size is quite small.

The rosewood has less control from what I've read but does well close to the table.

Well yea , that does sound like what iam looking for , how small is the handle ? (like is there a comparison some where to a normal size handle?)
thank you.

Edit : in TB11 there is a Nittaku Acoustic L (large handle) , that mean a normal size handle ? (if so that kinda of solving the problem isnt it ?)
 
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