Butterfly New Products 16 September 16

darnner123 · Sep 17, 2016

Shuki said:
Decreases speed, adds flex. also decreases weight a bit.

the primary reason I use the older model innerforcealc over the innerforce layer alc is becauseits .1 mm thinner.

hmm if its 0.1 thinner for the old ones wouldn't the difference be negligible?
is it the psychological advantage it gives you during games that make you feel that way?

just thinking about random possibilities hahahaha

Shuki · Sep 17, 2016

darnner123 said:
hmm if its 0.1 thinner for the old ones wouldn't the difference be negligible?
is it the psychological advantage it gives you during games that make you feel that way?

just thinking about random possibilities hahahaha

isn't the color of your forehand rubber negligible? why not change it every time you reglue rubber? we like what we like.

darnner123 · Sep 17, 2016

Shuki said:
isn't the color of your forehand rubber negligible? why not change it every time you reglue rubber? we like what we like.

uh sorry what do you mean?
does re gluing just literally gluing it on again and what does the color have to do with that?
sorry I don't really know the technical stuffs

NDH · Sep 17, 2016

Darner, Shuki is basically saying that "to him", the 0.1mm makes a big difference. He didn't like you making out that it made no difference (if I read it correctly).

For what it's worth, I'm with you (no offence Shuki) - Yes we like what we like, but 0.1mm is very insignificant, and the Butterfly marketing train is at full speed on these new blades.

Considering identical blades can play different (due to wood being a natural living thing), you'll undoubtedly get some blades which will play 0.1mm bigger, and others which will play 0.1mm smaller - Even when they are supposed to be the same (i'm talking about "feel" and not physical size).

The point about the colour of your forehand is true. People stick with what colour they have become accustomed too.

That being said, I don't see the relevance to the conversation (forehand rubber is not a psychological preference - People don't feel like they are gaining an advantage to having one particular colour on their forehand or back hand - Unless you happen to have the Chinese secret recipe to the Hurricane black rubber).

darnner123 · Sep 17, 2016

NDH said:
Darner, Shuki is basically saying that "to him", the 0.1mm makes a big difference. He didn't like you making out that it made no difference (if I read it correctly).

For what it's worth, I'm with you (no offence Shuki) - Yes we like what we like, but 0.1mm is very insignificant, and the Butterfly marketing train is at full speed on these new blades.

Considering identical blades can play different (due to wood being a natural living thing), you'll undoubtedly get some blades which will play 0.1mm bigger, and others which will play 0.1mm smaller - Even when they are supposed to be the same (i'm talking about "feel" and not physical size).

The point about the colour of your forehand is true. People stick with what colour they have become accustomed too.

That being said, I don't see the relevance to the conversation (forehand rubber is not a psychological preference - People don't feel like they are gaining an advantage to having one particular colour on their forehand or back hand - Unless you happen to have the Chinese secret recipe to the Hurricane black rubber).

ohhh I see but who knows if you actually got that 0.1mm difference (just hypothesizing not pushing my ideas onto people)
since the weight of the blade varies so much due to manufacturing inconsistencies
but you could have also got what you wanted but there's no way you would know right?
hahaha i dont even know what im saying now

Airoc · Sep 17, 2016

NDH said:
People don't feel like they are gaining an advantage to having one particular colour on their forehand or back hand

Weeellll ... Some people still hang on to the myth that the same type of rubber plays different in black or red, i.e. black being "spinnier" and red being "faster". There even used to be a reason to believe this, since during the manufacturing process the colours were achieved by adding different materials to the rubber mixture. These days, it doesn´t matter if the chemical is red or black, but the myth doesn´t die.

What still seems to happen sometimes is that one colour doesn´t perform as expected, but that wouldn´t apply in general, only for a certain batch.

NDH · Sep 17, 2016

Airoc said:
Weeellll ... Some people still hang on to the myth that the same type of rubber plays different in black or red, i.e. black being "spinnier" and red being "faster". There even used to be a reason to believe this, since during the manufacturing process the colours were achieved by adding different materials to the rubber mixture. These days, it doesn´t matter if the chemical is red or black, but the myth doesn´t die.

What still seems to happen sometimes is that one colour doesn´t perform as expected, but that wouldn´t apply in general, only for a certain batch.

I thought that was specifically the Chinese black vs red rubber (which is why I mentioned the Chinese secret)?

Did people using Euro/Jap rubbers think the same?

Shuki · Sep 17, 2016

a blade 3.0mm with wood as soft as an innerforce I could bend and break pretty easily. I think this is the limit to how thin they would be able to make the blade.

so from 6.0 to 5.9 we get a blade that's 3% thinner. From 6.0 to 5.5, that's 15% thinner. a blade 15% thinner is pretty damn substantial in my eyes. I wouldn't see this as pure marketing mumbo jumbo from butterfly.

now about my blade I'm using right now, I can visibly see that my innerforce alc is thinner than my innerforce layer alc.

That being said, my innerforce alc is also 8 grams heavier, which is pretty substantial. Even though it's thinner. In general, if you have two of the same blade and one is heavier, the heavier one will give better feedback and will be more stable.

88gram +/- 5 for the new blade coming out. I can still get a pretty damn good weight for that blade. plus the handle looks nicer

. Handle preference is huge for me, that's another reason I don't like innerforce layer alc.

Suga D · Sep 17, 2016

NDH said:
I thought that was specifically the Chinese black vs red rubber (which is why I mentioned the Chinese secret)?

Did people using Euro/Jap rubbers think the same?

I still can remember as a kid one day the coach gave me 2.0mm sriver-s in red and 2.0mm sriver-s in n black and told me to use the black on the BH cause the red was faster. This was way back in the eighties of last century.
So i would say, it's not only chinese rubbers

Airoc · Sep 17, 2016

Suga D said:
So i would say, it's not only chinese rubbers

No, I specifically heard this about Sriver, too. Back in the day ...

Maybe it was true, but I doubt it was measurable, or that many people could actually tell (and prove) a difference.

With modern rubbers and production techniques however, this should be of no importance.

darnner123 · Sep 18, 2016

Well would the innerforce alc.s blades be cheaper since they are using less alc in them?
Or would they just be way more expensive because its something new?
Might consider getting them if they are cheaper than the innerforce alc

laistrogian · Sep 18, 2016

darnner123 said:
Well would the innerforce alc.s blades be cheaper since they are using less alc in them?
Or would they just be way more expensive because its something new?
Might consider getting them if they are cheaper than the innerforce alc

Most probably it's gonna be the same price. The product is an option, it's not meant to be sold as cheaper IF Layer ALC.

AndySmith · Sep 18, 2016

darnner123 said:
Well would the innerforce alc.s blades be cheaper since they are using less alc in them?
Or would they just be way more expensive because its something new?
Might consider getting them if they are cheaper than the innerforce alc

"Butterfly" and "cheaper" aren't two works which usually live in the same sentence as each other.

Not sure why you think there will be less ALC in the new one. Will most likely be thinner wood plies being used.

Shuki · Sep 18, 2016

darnner123 said:
Well would the innerforce alc.s blades be cheaper since they are using less alc in them?
Or would they just be way more expensive because its something new?
Might consider getting them if they are cheaper than the innerforce alc

Headsize is the same. Same amount of alc.

Suga D · Sep 18, 2016

AndySmith said:
"Butterfly" and "cheaper" aren't two words which usually live in the same sentence as each other.

Hahahaaa

[Emoji3]

Well spoken

darnner123 · Sep 19, 2016

ohhhh i see
wow doesn't it create a bad image if it's gonna be more expensive O.O

AndySmith · Sep 19, 2016

darnner123 said:
ohhhh i see
wow doesn't it create a bad image if it's gonna be more expensive O.O

Hahahahahahhaha! Well, it does to me. But Butterfly's price inflation and market rigging seems to just make some people want them more. They are the bad boys of the TT world - smoking behind the bike sheds to attract the groupies.

Butterfly New Products 16 September 16

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